[CP] Ragna Gameplay Discussion

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

The BE change is most likely to prevent transitioning to full combos from BE when you are somewhat close to the corner, as opposed to completely in the corner. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the combo routes using it in the corner are the same. The D ID buff is nice, a subtle hint that ASW would like Ragna players to use the move more. The other two changes are basically "fixes" to make moves behave the way they should. I would reckon that if there are any other changes, they are most likely minor and will have minor effects, otherwise they would probably have been mentioned.

Just goes to show that ASW is pretty happy with how the character is working out, despite how people on Dustloop may feel about it.

[Fistmaster049]

My reaction exactly. In all honesty, I'm really not happy with Ragna's changes. I consider both the DS change and the gauntlet hades change more of a "This has been fixed" move than a buff. Although the D ID buff will be useful for fatal combos and lead to more combo routes, I felt that a buff for Ragna could have been better spent somewhere else. The D ID change wasn't a necessity IMHO

^This, one of the rare times I wish liking replies on Dustloop was a thing

These changes are for the most part are just fixes with the buff to D ID being the only change that can really be called a buff

in most cases, the official website won't list all the changes that were made to a character. they only list a few of the total changes, maybe due to convention.

here's hoping that i'm right

I do remember hearing a rumour floating around earlier today that BE could still be special cancelled and the example used was BE - DS - Stuff

Would be better than nothing I guess

Anyway OD Dead spike in the corner fully connecting sounds like it could show promise

[KayEff]

OD dead spike in the corner won't add much to our combos

[SolheartStud]

I was thinking the same as Kayeff that hopefully this isn't isn't all we'll be getting. Hopefully.

I didn't import CP but maybe if the last hit of Belial Edge cancels and the float height is lower then maybe DBD will connect in the corner? Again I don't have the game so maybe this works now anyway.

The only other reason I can think of BE having less float height and untechable time is so combos perform faster? I dunno. Doesn't seem like a big nerf to me but I could definitely be missing something.

[-Kid]

Doesn't seem like a big nerf to me but I could definitely be missing something.

Really? Seems that way to me when I think about combo potential. Makes you wonder what you're supposed to do if you get an air hit confirm > BE, huh? Alternatively, we can end our combos in BS ground bounce or air DID, But we really won't be seeing much damage off air confirms if I'm right.

[floatwater]

in most cases, the official website won't list all the changes that were made to a character. they only list a few of the total changes, maybe due to convention.

here's hoping that i'm right

Lol there it is.

Overall knockdown better, the OD DS was nice. small fixes.

[SolheartStud]

Really? Seems that way to me when I think about combo potential. Makes you wonder what you're supposed to do if you get an air hit confirm > BE, huh? Alternatively, we can end our combos in BS ground bounce or air DID, But we really won't be seeing much damage off air confirms if I'm right.

But unless you're in the corner or near it then wouldn't you end your air combo with BS or DID anyway?

I guess I'm just thinking (and hoping) that the decreased float height and untechable time is just so you can do combos faster. So moves like 5C and Crush trigger can hit right away as soon as you land as opposed to having that slight pause that there is now between BE and those moves as they are now in the current iteration. I know it sounds dumb but maybe it's just a tweak so that those combos can just flow faster or they're just making it slightly harder to do it as a combo.

If you can explain more about combo potential you'd think Ragna could do by all means explain. And again I don't have the game so all of my experience and observation from the game has come from videos but off of BE aren't these your only options:

Midscreen-

BE > CS

In the corner:

5C > 5D > stuff

5D > stuff

CT > stuff

3C > stuff

Edited February 14, 2014 by SolheartStud

[KayEff]

CT's too slow to work

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

As I mentioned above, the BE change is most likely to prevent players from doing air hitconfirms into BE and then continuing the combo from outside of the corner. For example, from midscreen I can do 5B-6A -> HF, then 5B-5C -> hj.C -> BE, and still have time to dash in with 3C into 22C. Depending on the way the bounce height and untechable time are changed, you would not have time to run in and would have to do something immediately that could reach the opponent. This would relegate BE to corner combos only when you do not have meter. The lower bounce height might be a change that would allow you to do dash 3C faster and have it still connect, since right now you have to delay it if the opponent is already in the corner when you do it. This would make sense since there is no real reason for them to remove this combo route, and it would be a compromise where you could still do the corner combos that are possible now while still limiting the combos where you are not fully in the corner. The ability to cancel the last hit with Distortions would be a work around so that the midscreen combo to CS is still possible (decreased bounce height and untech time make it impossble to do the way it's currently done).

[Tong]

If this is true then BE> 2C> 5C> 5D combos should be easier to perform.

[SolheartStud]

As I mentioned above, the BE change is most likely to prevent players from doing air hitconfirms into BE and then continuing the combo from outside of the corner. For example, from midscreen I can do 5B-6A -> HF, then 5B-5C -> hj.C -> BE, and still have time to dash in with 3C into 22C. Depending on the way the bounce height and untechable time are changed, you would not have time to run in and would have to do something immediately that could reach the opponent. This would relegate BE to corner combos only when you do not have meter. The lower bounce height might be a change that would allow you to do dash 3C faster and have it still connect, since right now you have to delay it if the opponent is already in the corner when you do it. This would make sense since there is no real reason for them to remove this combo route, and it would be a compromise where you could still do the corner combos that are possible now while still limiting the combos where you are not fully in the corner. The ability to cancel the last hit with Distortions would be a work around so that the midscreen combo to CS is still possible (decreased bounce height and untech time make it impossble to do the way it's currently done).

^ All of this. This is all a good example of what I was getting at. Thanks Titanium.

And thanks Kayeff for informing me about CT being too slow.

[Tong]

The lower bounce height might be a change that would allow you to do dash 3C faster and have it still connect

Doesnt work, this route is dead apparently.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Ah, so they probably wanted to eliminate it deliberately. How lame.

[MashThat5A]

If you have good height awareness you can combo into 22C with air Blood Scythe off of random air hits. Kills your damage though since you have to use j.D

Edited February 24, 2014 by MashThat5A

[Beat_By-X]

Do you think the "buff" with BE will help for up damage corner combo with the patch ?

Any news about 6B ? need to do again 6B 6A ?

Edited February 25, 2014 by Beat_By-X

[-Kid]

Who knows? We'll have to wait and see how corner BE actually works. As for any other news, what we've been presented with is what we know so far, there has been no mention of 6B as far as I'm aware.

[Elochai]

This page has more detailed Ragna changes, I think. I can't read JP, so I would appreciate it if someone would translate.

http://www.famitsu.com/matome/bbcp/tyousei.html

[KayEff]

backstep: 20F → 22F

negative penalty resistance: 2 → 4 (no idea what this means, i assume he can camp better now)

inferno divider d: falls faster; fall time shortened by 3F

gauntlet hades: does not go over crouching opponents. also able to hit crouching opponents in the corner. (bigger hitbox)

OD dead spike: cannot leave screen if used in the corner

belial edge: last hit untechable 40F → 35F, smaller launch. last hit is distortion cancellable.

other than the backstep and negative penalty changes, which are both weird changes imo, this is nothing new.

EDIT: there was an excerpt regarding the negative penalty values, turns out i was right.

EDIT2: reading the excerpt above ragna's changes (which is in bang's dialect, groan), appears you can connect 5C after FC d divider. moreover, you can still connect 5C and 5D after belial edge

Edited February 26, 2014 by KayEff

[Callisto]

Awesome, do you know if there's any issue with connecting 5C/5D with the tiny extra bit that microdash adds?

[KayEff]

the description is not that detailed, so it doesn't say. however, as far as i know, there shouldn't be any issues, as long as you are within distance of landing either move.

[Callisto]

The smaller launch might even make some things easier, for instance off a corner airthrow I usually do BE > 5C > 6A > TK BS, it will probably take out the need for manually delaying the 5C to get the right height.

[Fistmaster049]

The untechable nerf to Ragna is 40 to 35

5C's startup is only 12 frames and 5D's is 15

can't see any reason why they wouldn't be able to connect still, may have to input it faster so as mentioned earlier in this thread I believe dash-3C is seeming dead or at least VERY tight

and the rest generally are just fixes still other than that nerf to the backdash (and was that really necessary? it was already terrible)

[Cheefoo]

It looks like everyone's backdash is getting nerfed.

[D.R.F.]

It looks like everyone's backdash is getting nerfed.

Yaay my shitty backdash is get worse:/

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

[MashThat5A]

And Ragna's pokes got indirectly buffed