[CP] Ragna Gameplay Discussion

[Sadeyo]

I'm happy I can still do most of my vanilla combos but there's this one thing that's bothering me, does 5D (2) on a floating opponent cause more float? I'm whiffing 214A quite a bit and you'll see it in a video I'll shortly post. I guess my normal go to combo are like-

 

Standing

5B 6A 214B 214D 66 5D (2) 214A <---

Crouching

5C 6C(2) 214B 214D 66 5D 214A <---

Couldn't be my opponent hitbox could it? I noticed it more frequently in my match against Azrael.

[Fistmaster049]

Just a brief note for those who haven't discovered it themselves

Thanks to the BE nerf and Azrael's hurtbox, its now a lot harder/almost impossible to land 3C after BE on Az in some combos (more than most characters at least)

e.g. 5B>6A>j.C, j.C > BE .....

on most characters 3C will still connect but on Az specifically he will be able to tech a bit faster (?)

 

Gonna need some more testing but this seems to be the deal, why Az's hurtbox is like this I have no idea (you'd think it would be easier to land due to his size but nope)

[floatwater]

It's not THAT hard, something to keep in mind is where you hit him when he is flipping like that (which should be his feet since it always feels like his jacket has no hurtbox all the time). This goes for every character. 

[Callisto]

Couldn't be my opponent hitbox could it? I noticed it more frequently in my match against Azrael.

It's an opponent hurtbox thing, it can be wonky on a small handful of characters. Try doing 214A just a tiny bit earlier.

[advancedNoob]

Does anyone want to fix the table in the first post?

[Final Ultima]

I forgot there was even a table there. Fixed (and edited to include the "almost" universal air normal P2 90%->80% nerf).

[advancedNoob]

Very nice work, thank you!

[Tong]

I know it's a video but this set vs Jin was pretty sick:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHzRf2VfMLM

[crimsonstardust]

Alright I'm starting to hit a plateau with my ability to play Ragna. My biggest issue with Ragna is I can't open anyone up with him anymore, I've really have varied my block/pressure strings as much as I can and try to sneak in throws and overheads to shake things up but they get blocked or teched respectively. At this point all I can do is try to go for whiff punishes or ID stuff like overheads and try to open people up but I can't get my opponent(s) to get scared to hit a button nor can I throw them cause they are teching all my throws. At this point I'm kind of lost where to go from here, I know that Ragna now has a much harder time opening people up but with the lack of a strong mix up game I'm not even sure how I can open people up anymore. I can use some advise or suggestions, my general pressure usually involves various delayed timings on 5 and 2 B and using 2C and 2D to act as another layer of frame trapping, I've also have done things like 6D jD or whiff jD go for 2B, tried staggering my 2A pressure with mixes of 2B/C and throws and 6B.

I wasn't sure if this was more for a Q&A post or this should of gone in gameplay discussion.

[KayEff]

this seems more like a post for the gameplay discussion, so i'm moving it there.

unfortunately, you can't do anything to fix a character that is fundamentally impaired. once you exhaust all your mixup/pressure options on an opponent and even that ends up not being enough, you're pretty much fucked in that regard. the only way you would then be able to to damage the opponent would be to rely on your neutral. if that's not what you want, then your only other choices are to either hit training mode and find some gimmicks that nobody has seen before (good luck), or play a different character.

i know that this response sounds pretty negative, but there's a very fine line between being optimistic and being delusional.

[Ourozama]

What do you do in order to win an ID clash given that both sides are just gonna keep mashing ID all the way?

[D.R.F.]

What do you do in order to win an ID clash given that both sides are just gonna keep mashing ID all the way?

If niether has meter, couldnt you barrier the clash?

[crimsonstardust]

this seems more like a post for the gameplay discussion, so i'm moving it there.unfortunately, you can't do anything to fix a character that is fundamentally impaired. once you exhaust all your mixup/pressure options on an opponent and even that ends up not being enough, you're pretty much fucked in that regard. the only way you would then be able to to damage the opponent would be to rely on your neutral. if that's not what you want, then your only other choices are to either hit training mode and find some gimmicks that nobody has seen before (good luck), or play a different character.i know that this response sounds pretty negative, but there's a very fine line between being optimistic and being delusional.

I was afraid of that being a possibility that it could be Ragna that lacks some stuff I wanna do. I guess I will have to hit the lab and try to find some gimmicks or something.

[Tong]

Nothing blocks a good old crossup IAD DID, I tell ya.

Also try to learn Throw Reject Miss tactics like 2A> 5A whiff> Throw/2A or bait Throw tech attempts with 6D or TK Belial. Kinda surprising how you're not getting mashed out of your stuff btw.

[Sashi]

6B RC 6B. Always works.

[crimsonstardust]

Nothing blocks a good old crossup IAD DID, I tell ya.

Also try to learn Throw Reject Miss tactics like 2A> 5A whiff> Throw/2A or bait Throw tech attempts with 6D or TK Belial. Kinda surprising how you're not getting mashed out of your stuff btw.

Forgot about cross up ID, I'll have to practice that some more. I've seen some people do the 2A 5A whiff set up, how does this turn onto a Throw reject miss? Is the idea basically make it look like you are gonna throw but mess with the timing?

[KayEff]

pretty much. one way to go about it (which is incredibly basic but works wonders) is run to the opponent, keep running when you make contact, then do a 2A into throw. psychologically, most people will see the running as a throw attempt. you trick the opponent into thinking that you're going to throw, then mess up the timing and get a TRM.

it's hard to pull off because you need to force the opponent to not press any buttons, which is not as easy as it sounds. but at least it feels really good when you pull it off! :v

[floatwater]

Forgot about cross up ID, I'll have to practice that some more. I've seen some people do the 2A 5A whiff set up, how does this turn onto a Throw reject miss? Is the idea basically make it look like you are gonna throw but mess with the timing?

Another thing to keep in mind is the window of TRMs, when a person mistimes a throw you have. . .a lot of time (like 30 frames of when they press throw?) to TRM them. So 2A > microdash grab helps. Just keep in mind MOST TRM setups can be mashed out.

Sucks grab range was "nerfed" and pushback on barrier increased. You also have Kara throw!

[crimsonstardust]

Another thing to keep in mind is the window of TRMs, when a person mistimes a throw you have. . .a lot of time (like 30 frames of when they press throw?) to TRM them. So 2A > microdash grab helps. Just keep in mind MOST TRM setups can be mashed out.

Sucks grab range was "nerfed" and pushback on barrier increased. You also have Kara throw!

Wait Ragna has a Kara throw? I didn't even know you can do Karas I'm this game.

To answer an earlier thing about not getting mashed out, a few locals I've been playing against generally try not to mash out my Ragna pressures cause they know I'm fishing for a frame trap every so often, they usually exploit the fact that Ragna has a slow overhead and my throw game is kinda weak in BB so my throw game usually got read pretty well.

[floatwater]

Kara throw is just piano B+C, you'll see Ragna move forward a bit when it's done right.

[D.R.F.]

If they are mashing hard you can always go 2B-5B. There's no gap, even on instant-block so im sure you can catch some. There is also good old 2C-5C-2D. Just remember that if they block the 2D you are put back to neutral, since its -4 on block.

[Ourozama]

If niether has meter, couldnt you barrier the clash?

 

I tried and it doesn't work unless I'm doing it wrongly. Though with meter, I can RC into barrier. Thanks though!

[KayEff]

you can't cancel a clash into barrier, only into an attack

[D.R.F.]

^ learned something today. Then yea I guess just mash dp again or something like j.c

[Tong]

If they are mashing hard you can always go 2B-5B. There's no gap, even on instant-block so im sure you can catch some.

 

You want actually the opposite, because a gapless blockstring means they won't get punished for mashing (no gap = their moves dont even come out = no frametrap).

2A> 2C is a better option because it doubles as a frametrap and pressure reset. Not to mention he has many more options after 2C.