[UNIEL] Gordeau

[Aftermath]

Any tips for the Waldstein matchup? I'm really bewildered by neutral against him.

[LionHeartx]

That MU still bothers me too but I recently got a little more EXP against a good one and I can say that

 

- dont challenge him at the start of the round his 5b is ridiculous 

 

-try really hard not to jump since basically all of his buttons AA for whatever reason

 

- force function is actually decent against him if you are really good at reading you can whiff punish him with it

 

-get used to shielding assault j.C but dont abuse it cause then they will start looking to empty assault command throw

 

-dont be afraid to block his pressure strings for a while so you can get GRD advantage

 

-3c at max range beats a lot of his pokes

 

- if you have chain shift and he does his 66b you can CS before he can get anything else out and react appropriately to whatever you see during the CS flash.

 

-once you knock him down assault j.b is really good for oki because it hits really fast on tall characters (when they are standing up)

 

-a lot of his pressure strings leave him open to EX Assumilation 

 

-dont bother trying to AA him with 2c unless you know hes doing an empty jump/empty assault

 

- dont forget that unless he combos into his B command grab you can always tech it (though the window seems smaller than normal yellow grabs) and you can assault out of his EX command grab on reaction as long as you werent do anything pre flash

 

-pray they dont use his force function since its actually a decent projectile and Gordeau hardly has any options against those

 

thats just my take on the MU so far I've only played maybe 20 matches against good walds so maybe my thoughts will change.

[Aftermath]

Thanks for the advice, but what are the advantages of using Force Function rather than Mortal Slide?

[LionHeartx]

Force Function has a bigger vertical hitbox.....and it looks cool

[Aftermath]

Alright, that makes sense, thanks. Do you have any advice for Hilda? I'm having a lot of trouble getting in on them, and I've met several ridiculously high win rate ones in ranked today. I can take rounds here and there if I land a lucky hit, but I can't find a gap in the pressure big enough to gain ground or Grim Reaper out.

[LionHeartx]

Nah not really. Sadly I have fought Hilda only like twice. I still have no EXP vs Vatista either and iirc japan thinks shes the only character than beats Gordeau.

[Aftermath]

Hey, I thought I'd share my knowledge of combo execution for Gordeau for those having trouble with particular combo pieces.

 

• OTG 2C(1) jB(2) jC 3C. To hit with the 3C after jC, the jB(2) must be done at a specific height. The easiest way to do this is to jump cancel 2C as fast as possible and execute jB at the apex of the jump
• OTG 2B 5C jB(2) jC 3C. To do this combo piece, you have to delay the 5C for as long as you can. The cancel window for 2B is pretty long, so you can just wait to do 5C, or you can charge it for a short time (not fully charged.) This will ensure that your opponent is low enough for 3C to connect after jC. You also have to delay jB until the apex of your jump as with the first one.
• 6B 22A 3C. The 3C must be input about halfway down the opponent's drop after 22A. This combo is also very rhythmic; the time between the second and the third hits connecting is almost exactly the same as the time between the first two hits connecting.
• j[C] jA jB 3C 236A 236A 22C (no last hit). The 22C must be delayed slightly or it will whiff altogether. Note that this is not the case for jB(2) jC 3C 236A 236A 22C, which may be done as fast as possible.
• OTG 2C(2) jB (second hit only) jC land jB(2) jC. The first jB must be done quickly after jump cancelling or you will inadvertently land both hits. The first jC must be delayed, and the second jB must be done as quickly as possible after rejumping and the second jC can't be delayed for very long. Note that you must also do 5B after landing the second time rather than the standard 3C because they will be too high for 3C to connect.
• Grim Reaper CS -> jB(2) jC. The trick with this combo is that you have to dash towards them longer than you would think, otherwise you'll be too far away for the first hit of jB to connect. There's no real good rule of thumb, just don't jump too early. The same rule applies to chain shifting EX Grim Reaper.

I recommend doing simplified versions of combos that start with an assault, since they seem to have some untechable time proration and timings for higher damage combo pieces will be tight or impossible. I don't know if anyone can confirm this.

 

Here are a few other Gordeau tricks that regularly worked in ranked queue.

• 22A is plus, but you'll often be too far away to dash in for a new blockstring and opponents may try to mash out. By throwing in 5C, 3C, 66B or 66C after 22A, you can often get opponents to respect followups to 22A giving you the ability to occasionally dash in or assault in and reset pressure.
• As stupid as it sounds, opponents will often fall for this simple trap. Blocked Mortal Slide -> Mortal Slide. Seriously, they often try dashing forward after the second hit of Mortal Slide and get caught by the second Mortal Slide.
• Close blocked 236A 236A (DELAY) 236A is not a yellow throw.
• Enemy throw break -> 214C. It works, trust me. That +8 frames on throw break will lead opponents to believe that they are allowed to do things. Disabuse them of that notion by periodically tossing these things out and chain shifting them into a combo.
• Mix up your regular oki blockstrings with 5B 5A pause Assimilation for a tick throw from longer range than opponents expect.

[Neanis]

Alright after some matches I realised I have a hard time dealing with characters that have some kind of "rush" move (thinking about Orie and Seth for example). Any tips on how guys deal with that? Only tactic Ive found so far is to use mortal slide less or mix it up with 3C.

About Seth I think I found some kind of ghetto OS to his teleport. If you do 1C when he disappears you get either 2C if he stays up front or 3C if he crosses up, which hits him/gets you out of pressure. Unless I mashed it thoughtlessly it has always worked for me so far.

[susano]

 

Hey, I thought I'd share my knowledge of combo execution for Gordeau for those having trouble with particular combo pieces.

 

• OTG 2C(1) jB(2) jC 3C. To hit with the 3C after jC, the jB(2) must be done at a specific height. The easiest way to do this is to jump cancel 2C as fast as possible and execute jB at the apex of the jump
• OTG 2B 5C jB(2) jC 3C. To do this combo piece, you have to delay the 5C for as long as you can. The cancel window for 2B is pretty long, so you can just wait to do 5C, or you can charge it for a short time (not fully charged.) This will ensure that your opponent is low enough for 3C to connect after jC. You also have to delay jB until the apex of your jump as with the first one.
• 6B 22A 3C. The 3C must be input about halfway down the opponent's drop after 22A. This combo is also very rhythmic; the time between the second and the third hits connecting is almost exactly the same as the time between the first two hits connecting.
• j[C] jA jB 3C 236A 236A 22C (no last hit). The 22C must be delayed slightly or it will whiff altogether. Note that this is not the case for jB(2) jC 3C 236A 236A 22C, which may be done as fast as possible.
• OTG 2C(2) jB (second hit only) jC land jB(2) jC. The first jB must be done quickly after jump cancelling or you will inadvertently land both hits. The first jC must be delayed, and the second jB must be done as quickly as possible after rejumping and the second jC can't be delayed for very long. Note that you must also do 5B after landing the second time rather than the standard 3C because they will be too high for 3C to connect.
• Grim Reaper CS -> jB(2) jC. The trick with this combo is that you have to dash towards them longer than you would think, otherwise you'll be too far away for the first hit of jB to connect. There's no real good rule of thumb, just don't jump too early. The same rule applies to chain shifting EX Grim Reaper.

I recommend doing simplified versions of combos that start with an assault, since they seem to have some untechable time proration and timings for higher damage combo pieces will be tight or impossible. I don't know if anyone can confirm this.

 

Here are a few other Gordeau tricks that regularly worked in ranked queue.

• 22A is plus, but you'll often be too far away to dash in for a new blockstring and opponents may try to mash out. By throwing in 5C, 3C, 66B or 66C after 22A, you can often get opponents to respect followups to 22A giving you the ability to occasionally dash in or assault in and reset pressure.
• As stupid as it sounds, opponents will often fall for this simple trap. Blocked Mortal Slide -> Mortal Slide. Seriously, they often try dashing forward after the second hit of Mortal Slide and get caught by the second Mortal Slide.
• Close blocked 236A 236A (DELAY) 236A is not a yellow throw.
• Enemy throw break -> 214C. It works, trust me. That +8 frames on throw break will lead opponents to believe that they are allowed to do things. Disabuse them of that notion by periodically tossing these things out and chain shifting them into a combo.
• Mix up your regular oki blockstrings with 5B 5A pause Assimilation for a tick throw from longer range than opponents expect.

 

 

These are very helpful, thanks.

 

I have a question. Is Gordeau considered a zoner or a rushdown?

[Neanis]

I have a question. Is Gordeau considered a zoner or a rushdown?

Well many say he can be a bit of both. However I think his pressure cannot last very long and he (most of the time) can control the opponent well when at mortal slide range, whereas the same thing cannot be said at close range.

Thats why Id say hes a bit more of a zoner. As a former Hazama player I dont really care about this type of classification though haha

[Rhiya]

what Gord wants to do/needs to play like is matchup dependent

 

against someone like linne, he can zone fine, but I -believe- he get zoned by, say, hilda, which means he has to play more rushdown-style in that matchup (i.e., work to get in, then stay in)

 

once he's in your face, he'll play kind of like a grappler, because his mixup and okizeme game is v strong with command throw

 

gord does everything pretty well -- it's a matter of understanding how you need to play based on mu/who has life lead

[OuroborosDave]

I'm new to the game an am really into it but I'm have a massive problem against vatista I have no idea how to approach her charge moves just keep getting me any advice will be much appreciated

[Aftermath]

I consider Gordeau a rushdown character. He has two normals that make him step forward (5B and 6B) which allow him to continue blockstrings for longer. While he doesn't have projectiles to cover his approach or the fast footspeed typically associated with rushdown characters, the threat of getting stuffed by 5C, Mortal Slide or Grim Reaper often allows you to gain more ground on your opponent that you would otherwise. Additionally, the existence of 5C, Mortal Slide and Grim Reaper allow you to continue pressure and frametraps from farther away, even after you get pushed back from shield. 236C being plus and pulling people towards you is a very rushdown-y property, and the vast majority of Gordeau's damage comes from opening people up on the offense with his huge variety of mixups. Gordeau can do footsies effectively, but getting enough damage to win rounds from random hits at Mortal Slide/Grim Reaper range can be a challenge.

[Fatalis]

 

 

 

 

I would probably classify Gordeau as a vortex character. Once he's in, you need a good guess to get out.

 

After assimilation (which practically all of your combos are going to end in), you have a bunch of different options you can choose.

• Assault Overhead
• Meaty 6B
• Meaty 5A/2B
• Meaty 66C
• Meaty Assimilation
• Empty Jump
• etc (there might be more stuff I'm missing)

You opponent needs to guess one of these options and be right to get out, otherwise, they'll get hit, eat another combo, and then have to guess again. Common options are something like this:

 

• Mash (will lose to almost everything, even with empty jump)
• Block high (will lose to meaty lows and assimilation, even with empty jump)
• Block low (will lose to meaty overhead and assmilation, even with empty jump)
• DP (will beat meaty's, lose to empty jump)
• Throw (beat empty jump (if timed right?) lose to meaty's, lose to assault)
• (Backdash can also be a good option here, alongside mixing up getups with teching, delay techs, and regular getups, need to look into beating these options more thoroughly)
• (Use some metered options, varying per character)
• (some sort of special into chain shift, etc)

Even from there, if they do manage to block the initial mixup on their wakeup, in your following blockstring, you can throw in another standing overhead, or get them with the command grab to get a second chance.

 

If you get that first hit, keep the momentum going, and they don't guess right, I've found it's very possible to blow someone up because they can't get their way out of the vortex.

 

Getting that first hit and staying in is usually the hard part though.

 

[drugtown]

how tight is the link from assault j.C to 5B? can't get that to stick at all

[susano]

Yeah, I figured he was a combination of a zoner/vortex character. Those command grab mixups though...I actually made someone rage today using that. Thanks Gordeau players, I'm gradually getting better with him. :3

[_Sey]

how tight is the link from assault j.C to 5B? can't get that to stick at all

it's j.[C]

[drugtown]

it's j.[C]

that'd be why

 

thx

[_Sey]

- Meaty 6B

- Meaty Assimilation

 

 

meaty assimilation (or meaty throws) do not exist in UNiEL.

the only situation where """meaty""" throws could work are:

- opponent is mashing throw on wake up and you 214A

- opponent is mashing anything not airborne on wake up and you do 214C

and meaty 6B is also a pretty poor and telegraphed option that will either get you punished or end up with the other guy backdashing out of it most of the times.

[Fatalis]

I knew normal grabs don't work, although I thought I had seen meaty assimilation be used before, perhaps not.

 

6B isn't a really good meaty, but I use it on occasion once I noticed that my opponent has gotten used to some of the more standard meaty options, and they're just reacting to the assault to block high and are otherwise blocking low. Against stronger opponents, it probably doesn't work as well.

[lofo]

Probably what you saw was Gord timing the assimilation just late enough that it avoids the wakeup throw protection vs a blocking opponent who expected a proper meaty. It's a decent trick that works in lots of games.

 

I wouldn't use meaty 6B vs anyone decent. It's slow enough that they can check it to reversal, particularly with faster motions like Vatista's flash kick. It's also not even a good mixup due to its speed, and I've found that even if you cancel to 22A there's a big enough gap for them to jab you. I think 6B is best used to punish low shielding.

[AdmiralAugustus]

What are you guys using for AA's and what follow ups are you using. I struggle on defense and this would help. I use 5C into rekka sometimes, but I know 2C is a better one, but I don't know a follow up from it.

Basically, what are Gordeau's best AAs and what are the follow ups for each one?

Sorry if this mentioned earlier in the thread. I must've missed them if they are. Thanks in advance.

[Fatalis]

Grim Reaper and 2C are probably our best anti-airs.

 

Near the corner you can pick up Grim Reaper with 5B and then go into the j.b > j.c > 3C > etc route. If not near the corner, you can combo off an anti-air Grim Reaper by using 22C.

 

With 2C, as long as you didn't hit them too high up, you should be able to do j.[C] > 3C > etc for a combo.

 

There's probably more optimal things to do, but doing these two are fairly straightforward and easy to do.

[Neanis]

I agree with Fatalis for the AAs, 2C is good and (as everything with Gordeau) nets you a good reward. Dont forget we have the option select 1ACD for throw/assault. Very powerful when used correctly.

Now I have a question about defense. Most of the time I will try to break the opponents pressure with 2b,2a or shielding an assault. However the range of the two normals is too limited against certain opponents. From my experience 3C can sometimes catch them off guard and 214A will also work to lame your way out against whiffs.

I know this isnt really clear, but take it as the question: How do you deal with  pressure just a bit past 2b range?

[Lucalibur]

Personally I mash Grim Reaper until my balls drop.

 

I know that sounds stupid, but Grim Reaper(not EX though EX also works) is actually pretty fast for its range. Depending on the situation I do 3C though.

 

One weakness I noticed Gordeau has is that he can't properly control the range just past 2B but not far enough to be at the tip of 5C's hitbox. It's a pretty complicated situation, but it's really the only place I ever feel threatened.