[UNIEL] Seth

[brett_]

I forgot to actually post this, so Starwind already said some of what I said, but basically @Justice, we're not talking about 2A 5C. We all know the bnb works on Eltnum. It's simply the issue of dash C, which you only need if you do 2A into 2 hits before 214CC. 

 

Anyways, what I had written:

 

It's even more important to note that this works off of 2A > 2/5B, meaning you do not have to single hit confirm off of the 2A. Because of this, its universally important. It's even better because you can even dial this string on block and it goes into normal 214 pressure game.

 

If you can already single hit 2a block / hit confirm, this doesn't really matter, but if you cant, this is a pretty big deal.

 

Randomly, this also works: 

 

2A > 2B > 2C(2) > 214BB > delay j.214A > 214AC(1hit) > 6C > 236B oki. Pretty difficult but if you have the execution for it, it's ideal. 

 

Also, after the 3C > 214BB > air backdash j.C route, there's a few things it seems you can do:

 

1) Naturally fall. If you just fall, you'll land slightly minus, and near them. Chances are they might not know whether or not to press buttons, and since Seth's stuff is fast, you can probably get away with continuing pressure from this, due to the threat from the other options

 

2) Fastfall. If you fastfall, you end at slight advantage (+5? +7? just a guess) but you're pretty far away. Close enough to throw out a 623X or Dash C, but other than that, you'll have to dash up to them to continue pressure.

 

3) Meaty j.214A. This works if you let yourself fall then time a j.214A. This obviously fails against any kind of reversal, but you aren't afraid of a reversal, j.214A lets you continue pressure (214x after or something). Main other disdvantage of this is you probably wont have a chance to do a strong pressure game before the orb comes in.

 

4) Combo into j.214A: If you don't make the orb after j.6C, you can j.214A afterwards, and then land and orb, or do other various things if you want (214B I think works afterwards too). Gets you a bit more damage too.

[Rikir]

This post has nothing to do with whats above.

Going back to Time Lag Cloud: I realized when I died trying to do it on ranked that this combo is actually character specific if you do it as is 

 

2:34

5B > 5CC > 214CC > 6C > j.236B > j.214A > 214BB > late j.214A > Orb Hit > j.6C > j.214A > 214BB > j.214C

HOWEVER, you can make this slight alteration to get it to work on the entire cast (Even the Loli hitboxes) without any penalty.

5B > 5CC > 214CC > 6C > j.236B > j.214A > 214BB > delay j.214A > Orb Hit > Jump Back  > air assault forward > j.6C > j.214A > 214BB > j.214C

You want them slightly higher when you do delay j.214A so that you don't accidentally air dash over them while trying to land 6C. Sorry if anyone died from this like I did lol. You can still only do this from a 5B or better starter btw.
 

[LitchiFayeBling]

ahhh i knew it.  tried that combo vs seth and only got it once in 50 tries. its hard

[brett_]

 

This post has nothing to do with whats above.

Going back to Time Lag Cloud: I realized when I died trying to do it on ranked that this combo is actually character specific if you do it as is 

 

2:34

5B > 5CC > 214CC > 6C > j.236B > j.214A > 214BB > late j.214A > Orb Hit > j.6C > j.214A > 214BB > j.214C

HOWEVER, you can make this slight alteration to get it to work on the entire cast (Even the Loli hitboxes) without any penalty.

5B > 5CC > 214CC > 6C > j.236B > j.214A > 214BB > delay j.214A > Orb Hit > Jump Back  > air assault forward > j.6C > j.214A > 214BB > j.214C

You want them slightly higher when you do delay j.214A so that you don't accidentally air dash over them while trying to land 6C. Sorry if anyone died from this like I did lol. You can still only do this from a 5B or better starter btw.

 

 

 

So....

 

after the j.214A > 214BB, you can just do 22 > 5B > j.B > air backdash > Orb Hits > j.6C, and the j.214A will connect on every character.

 

It also does more damage and is way way easier to do (undroppable-tier).

 

On non lolis you can also just do dash C/B most of the time too.

[Rikir]

So....

 

after the j.214A > 214BB, you can just do 22 > 5B > j.B > air backdash > Orb Hits > j.6C, and the j.214A will connect on every character.

 

It also does more damage and is way way easier to do (undroppable-tier).

 

On non lolis you can also just do dash C/B most of the time too.

 

Oooh nice, ill try this out.

[o Nereus o]

So....

 

after the j.214A > 214BB, you can just do 22 > 5B > j.B > air backdash > Orb Hits > j.6C, and the j.214A will connect on every character.

 

It also does more damage and is way way easier to do (undroppable-tier).

 

On non lolis you can also just do dash C/B most of the time too.

I was messing around with this and i tried to do the j.C > 2C combo with this. Sadly, it didn't work lol. Im definitely gonna be using this more now though.

[True_Tech]

Didn't see this get mentioned, rion's corner 2a combo http://youtu.be/3F9RSSjCVRA?t=2h40m34s

assault j.c, 2a, 2c(2), 623a, 2b, 214bb, j236a, j214a, 623b, orb hits, easier than ma kun's 2a combo and ends on the ground, i've gotten it to almost hit midscreen, the ender is a problem so i'll continue trying to work on it. so far the problem seems to be delay the j214a enough so that 623b hits but when i do the orb doesn't hit in the right spot

 

 

also this mixup is so sex http://youtu.be/3F9RSSjCVRA?t=2h13m56s

[Rikir]

Wow I love the BnB Brett posted. Its super easy and really fun WHILE doing good damage and maintaining oki options. Its perfect :DD

[brett_]

I was messing around with this and i tried to do the j.C > 2C combo with this. Sadly, it didn't work lol. Im definitely gonna be using this more now though.

 

it doesn't work due to too many hits before 6C (proration, etc). It's the same reason why you cant go into 2C(1) > 623A ender from the 2C > 623A > 5B > 623B route.

 

Also I suggest not calling it the j.C > 2C combo, because it works from 5C too, which is just as applicable as a punish. 2C > 623A route maybe? Dunno.

 

 

Didn't see this get mentioned, rion's corner 2a combo http://youtu.be/3F9RSSjCVRA?t=2h40m34s

assault j.c, 2a, 2c(2), 623a, 2b, 214bb, j236a, j214a, 623b, orb hits, easier than ma kun's 2a combo and ends on the ground, i've gotten it to almost hit midscreen, the ender is a problem so i'll continue trying to work on it. so far the problem seems to be delay the j214a enough so that 623b hits but when i do the orb doesn't hit in the right spot

 

 

also this mixup is so sex http://youtu.be/3F9RSSjCVRA?t=2h13m56s

 

That corner combo is great - definitely better than the other route for corner.

 

Midscreen I found a few more things that work:

 

1) 2A > 2A > 2C(2) > 623A > 2B > 214BB > j.236A > delay j.214A > 5A > 3C > 214BB > Orb Hits > Air Backdash j.6C - 2302 dmg (2491 if 2A > 5B)

2) 2A > 2B > 2C(2) > 623A > 2B > 214BB > j.236A > delay j.214A > delay 623B > Orb Hits > walk forward 6C - 2093 dmg

3) 5A > 2B > 2C(2) > 214BB > j.236A > delay j.214A > delay 623A > 2B > Orb Hits > 6C - 2087 

4) 2A > 2B > 2C(2) > 623A > 2B > 214BB > j.236A > delay j.214A > delay 214A4C > Orb Hits > 6C - 2237 (2492 with 2A > 5B)

5) 2A > 2B > 2C(2) > 214BB > j.236A > delay j.214A > delay 623B > 623A / Dash C > 6C - 2279 / 2235 (2404 / 2351 with 2a > 5B) - credit to Vista for this route 

 

So basically I found that 2B has some gross SMP on it so if you have 2B in your string and then also try and go for 623A > 2B > 214B later, 5A > 3C wont work, hence why combo #1 has 2AA instead. You can also use 5B etc.

 

Instead, if you do 2A > 2B, you can do combo #2, which is quite tricky but will work, and you get 6C oki off of it. The annoying thing about this route is that you need the orb right under them or else the orb will miss (in my findings). I need to investigate whether this is character specific or not yet, but I'm pretty sure it is, and is a bitch to do. Maybe adding in extra parts in the string will space it out right? Dunno. In any case, skip to combo #5 for this, since it's basically a completed version of this combo, and is probably easier lol.

 

You can also do stuff using 623A > 2B later on to combo into your Orb, as in combo #3 - it does more damage than the 5A > 3C variant as well, but unfortunately, I couldn't get this route to work off 2A starters, so this combo should honestly only be done if you dialed into 2C so you cant confirm into 214CC OR you are doing a string that makes 214CC > 6C not combo but also one where this combo works. I couldn't find such a string, but maybe it exists.

 

That being said, I combined the combo theory from Rion's corner combo with my own silly and hard combo from before, and it became combo #4. This combo is amazing because while combo #3 leads to 6C oki, its from a 5A starter so you can just do the much easier 214CC > 6C route to get the same knockdown. However, this combo works from 2A, even works from 2B, unlike #1, and honestly feels easier than #2. For some reason, adding in the 623A > 2B fixes the height so that 214AC(2) so it's more consistent. (Edit: Nevermind, you can omit this part and it feels about the same. I'm just better at doing it today after a day of practice compared to yesterday lol). You'll find landing that 6C to be pretty difficult, but if it looks like you won't get it, you can just do a j.6C instead on the fly. 

 

Edit2: Also, this final combo is probably character specific, as it relies on hitting them low enough with the j.214A to 214AC them solidly. It seems like smaller air hithurtboxes make this easier, as it allows the j.214A to hit lower. So far I haven't been able to confirm it on Gordeau, Merkava, or Waldstein, whereas doing it on Linne was extremely easy. Obviously, floaty characters may not work right either. On Nanase I haven't confirmed it works, but if you omit the 623A > 2B portion, it works.

 

Edit3: Combo #4 confirmed on: Eltnum, Nanase*, Hilda, Seth, Orie, Hyde, Linne, Carmine*, Vatista,  Yuzuriha*, 

 

Edit4: Confirmed some new things, will post more later.

 

Edit5: So, I also remembered a combo Vista mentioned a while back, which is Combo #5 - in early testing I assumed this combo was like Combo #3 in that it only works from 5A starter or better, but I was actually able to confirm that this combo works from 2A > 2B. Difficulty on it seems to be character specific. Haven't explored on every character, but seems okay vs Seth or Hyde, having trouble on certain other characters. Doing 623A gives you more damage than combo #4 off of 2A > 2B, but seems a bitch to link, and loses out on damage if you do 2A > 5B. Dash C seems a bit easier, but does less damage overall. Nice thing about this route, however, is that getting the 6C is much easier than #4, provided you got the dash C / 623A link properly. The damage loss is fairly insignificant unless you want to be a perfectionist, so this route overall is also very recommended, especially if you're having trouble getting the 6C ender from #4, since you can just mash it out if you're lazy with this route.

 

I'm out of time, so this will probably be the last edit I make on this post. Will post more later, and I still need to post my midscreen unblockable setup comparisons.

[o Nereus o]

it doesn't work due to too many hits before 6C (proration, etc). It's the same reason why you cant go into 2C(1) > 623A ender from the 2C > 623A > 5B > 623B route.

 

Oh i know, but thanks for explaining it anyways. It never hurts to experiment and try things just for the hell of it though xD

[True_Tech]

recorded the 2a combos cause i needed a reference to how much to delay, i hope this helps a bit. also recorded the 66c 623a cross up for anyone that didn't know about it

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xroNZ2Ceww&feature=youtu.be&a

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy0X2a08BQM&feature=youtu.be&a

[tdsholo]

People, what's the best you can do from 2A if an orb hits mid combo? (for example if you catch them in wakeup and the orb you set up in the last combo hits)

[S.D.]

I assume the only  way to test the 66C 623A crossup is to have a second controller? I tried setting up a dummy action to just walk backwards (I don't have a second controller) and it doesn't work.

[True_Tech]

I assume the only  way to test the 66C 623A crossup is to have a second controller? I tried setting up a dummy action to just walk backwards (I don't have a second controller) and it doesn't work.

yeah i put a rubber band on the second controllers analog stick to record that

 

edit:or record the dummy doing it, and you practice blocking it if thats what you want to do

[brett_]

Yes the second one. It's very useful for testing stuff involving crossups with seth, especially like where to actually space your crossup j.C/B from things like 214C or whatnot to account for people holding back to block early (totally different from a dummy standing there)

[Falco252]

About that labwork stuff :

 

 

2A > 5C > Orb HIt > 214AC > 6C works or not?

 

> Couldn't get it to work

 

Scott said assault j.A cant CH? Confirm?

 

> Actually it looks like jA can't CH at all (yet it can with training mode's option)

 

For the projectile glitch, I think I got it (3297 instead of 2604, no vorpal, raw IW is normaly 3069)

Also for orb hit > 5C > 214CC > 6C > 236B > 214A > 214BB > 22 > 5B > jB > orb hit > 6C I got 2960 instead of 2350, but you really need to be 100000% sure the orb will hit.

(If you meant the 6f proration glitch thing and I'm not talking about something entirely different)

Video : (was too lazy to remove the fail sorry) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoaeUS4J6Ew

 

Surprisingly enough I also got a 3144 or something, can you get first hit of IW then orb hit ?

[tdsholo]

The orb hit makes 214AC > 6C impossible from my experience, too :/

 

That's why I was asking for a route from 2A with orb hitting medium-combo. From 5A>5B>5C it works

[brett_]

If it's 6C > 236B knockdown into meaty 2A, there's a lot of things you can do. The basic one would be:

 

2A > Filler > 623A > Orb Hits > 6C > j.214A > 214BB > 22 > 2C(2) > 2nd Orb Hits > 6C 

 

The basic filler would probably be 2A > 2B > 5C > 623A, but strings such as 2A > 5C > 5CC > 623A or even 2AAAA > 623A will work.

 

If your filler is something with good proration like 2A > 5B > 5C > 623A, you can also end with 5B > j.B > j.6C, which is a bit easier and does a bit more damage, but will end at j.6C oki instead of 6C oki.

 

If the starter is bad, like 2AAAA, you can do 5B > j.A > j.6C instead (basically use j.A whenever you think j.B wont hit early enough), but this does less damage than the 2C(2) route.

 

2C(2) > Orb Hits > 6C is generally preferred, since you get 6C instead of j.6C oki. (You get a bit more frame advantage from 6C vs j.6C. Even more so based on height). The only real reason you'd want to do the 5B > j.A/B > j.6C route is due to it being virtually impossible to drop.

 

If you're talking about something more complicated like 2A > Orb Hits > 5C, i'll need to explore more about how to get that to work.

 

also @ Falco: I got 3605 in Vorpal, if you do IW then the projectile hits after super flash before the IW connects

[Rikir]

Im not too sure what this is, but I believe its some korean UNIEL tournament. As far as I can tell theres at least two competent Seth players in here. Ill try to search for anything cool, but here are the matches for now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frJcg7ISdQU&feature=youtube_gdata_player
 

Vs Vatista 5:00-9:15

>6:24 

Cross up j.214A setup? Stuff > 214BB > j.236B > 44 > opponent techs forward j.214A

 

Vs Akatsuki 10:00-14:50

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nkJOjEZC9A

Vs Waldstein 16:20 - 20:50

>19:47 Baits Wald CMD grab with 214BB

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzpHIu2Y3bU

Vs Linne 20:30 - 28-28

>Unblockable setup with CS at 28:10

 

2A > 5C > 214CC > 6C > j.236B > j.214A > 214BB > 44 > j.214A > 236C > CS > j.6C > j.236A ... Opponent Techs and Blocks EX Orb > j. 214B (UB) > Orb hits > 6C > Stuff

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_TddWlGSYE

Vs Byakuya 13:35- 22:00

Vs Linne 23:00- 28:48

[brett_]

Im not too sure what this is, but I believe its some korean UNIEL tournament. As far as I can tell theres at least two competent Seth players in here. Ill try to search for anything cool, but here are the matches for now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frJcg7ISdQU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

Vs Vatista 5:00-9:15

>6:24 

Cross up j.214A setup? Stuff > 214BB > j.236B > 44 > opponent techs forward j.214A

 

Vs Akatsuki 10:00-14:50

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nkJOjEZC9A

Vs Waldstein 16:20 - 20:50

>11:36 Baits Wald CMD grab with 214BB

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzpHIu2Y3bU

Vs Linne 20:30 - 28-28

>Unblockable setup with CS at 28:10

 

2A > 5C > 214CC > 6C > j.236B > j.214A > 214BB > 44 > j.214A > 236C > CS > j.6C > j.236A ... Opponent Techs and Blocks EX Orb > j. 214B (UB) > Orb hits > 6C > Stuff

 

1) That j.214A doesn't look like it crosses up - can someone test?

2) I think the time signature on the wald match for the bait is wrong

3) Not sure what other people are using as a combo after the j.214B > Orb Hits. Currently I use:

 

j.214B > Orb Hits > (j.)6C > j.236B > j.214A > 214B4B > 22 > 5C > 2nd Orb Hits > 6C 

[heavymetalmixer]

Question: Is Seth's 66B useful for something??

 

 

08/09/2014

Iairdash dasher
VS Hilda: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fuo4uk4oWEU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fuo4uk4oWEU&t=3m
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fuo4uk4oWEU&t=5m42s

VS Seth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAcPGPE-EAE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAcPGPE-EAE&t=3m47s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAcPGPE-EAE&t=7m37s

VS Byakuya: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlTK3lRjZk0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlTK3lRjZk0&t=3m23s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlTK3lRjZk0&t=6m29s

VS Hilda: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIs_tLduy18
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIs_tLduy18&t=2m27s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIs_tLduy18&t=5m46s

VS Hyde: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7qz9ASHBiU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7qz9ASHBiU&t=2m13s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7qz9ASHBiU&t=4m37s

VS Vatista: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix38doWt5bQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix38doWt5bQ&t=3m50s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix38doWt5bQ&t=7m50s
 

Edited August 19, 2014 by heavymetalmixer

[heavymetalmixer]

EDIT: Please erase this post.

[brett_]

Question: Is Seth's 66B useful for something??

 

it's -2 by itself (not bad, all things considered), and it launches on hit, making it easier to confirm from. Good for when you want a dashing normal but don't want to commit to confirming off single Dash C hit or something.

 

It's also a lazy man's / netplay replacement for Dash C in Dash C BnB enders when you're afraid it's going to drop. 

[heavymetalmixer]

it's -2 by itself (not bad, all things considered), and it launches on hit, making it easier to confirm from. Good for when you want a dashing normal but don't want to commit to confirming off single Dash C hit or something.

 

It's also a lazy man's / netplay replacement for Dash C in Dash C BnB enders when you're afraid it's going to drop. 

 

So, more stability in combos but less damage (and less EXS)?

[brett_]

5A bnb with Dash B does 2532 whereas Dash C does 2595. Not too big of a deal, so if you're nervous or combo'ing a character your not confident against doing Dash C in, Dash B is an okay adjustment (I often drop Dash C on yuzu cause I psych myself out so sometimes I do dash B >_>). Remember that Dash B is extremely difficult to do the unblockable setup route from (at least in my testing), so you still should Dash C if you're going for that. Also the knockdown is SLIGHTLY farther.