[UNIEL] Seth

[o Nereus o]

From the video.. i didn't know that 5B > 5C > j.C > j.B could be combo'd into. That's pretty sick.

 

I came up with this while i was messing around with it:

 

5B > 5C > j.C > j.B > 3B > 214C > Hold C > 6C > j.236B > j.214A > 214B > Hold B > 22 or 2A+B > Dash C > j.6C > j.214A > 214B > Hold B > j.214A.

 

You can end this combo with his 214C instead of his j.214A... but it's not recommended due to scaling.

[brett_]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1De7GMR--Ycdnir8rto3rpztm7_LHeqJYqzyrjYlFviU/edit#gid=424144072

 

Dunno how correct it is and doesn't give active/recovery but well.

Also I'm not sure it's perfectly correct, hopefully he did count the one frame with the input display thing or whatever and it's correct and not off by a frame

 

those numbers seem to check out with the various other sources, but do we have a source on whos frame data that is?

[Rikir]

those numbers seem to check out with the various other sources, but do we have a source on whos frame data that is?

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1De7GMR--Ycdnir8rto3rpztm7_LHeqJYqzyrjYlFviU/htmlview?pli=1&sle=true#

According to this, the source is this guy:

https://twitter.com/bhd_MAVEN/status/498196424094277632

 

 

So I have a few questions about seth. I plan to main this character and, since he's so technicall, I want to have the most amount of info I can before starting to lab.

 

1- What routes should you know for playing seth? I know the stuff > 214X~C > 6C > j.236B > j.214A > etc is the optimal, but what other routes a seth player must to master and why?

2- Can someone give me a detailed explanation of the 214X series regarding presure?

 

Thank you very much~

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xCt8Ps5QsUUEbBM3QoiyOzDfqUHNFVtq47vfROkOiSg/edit

Brett has the basic/important stuff in that doc in terms of combo routes.

As for the 214X series, its basically used at the end of your blockstrings to attempt a mixup. Good analogy in my opinion is Wesker's teleport mixups in Marvel 3 if you ever watch/play that. 

214B > j.214A is like the most common mixup using the teleport. 

 

I might write a better explanation later, pretty tired from cleaning out my room all day x-x

 

[brett_]

ahhh that document isn't supposed to be public yet but okay i guess its fine :P

 

i was wondering why there were people peeking at it all the time

[o Nereus o]

Do you guys think the frame data for Seth is pretty accurate? If so, ill be more than willing to add it to the wiki

[brett_]

it looks accurate - it matches up with vista's data and brandon's data

[o Nereus o]

it looks accurate - it matches up with vista's data and brandon's data

Alright cool. ill go ahead and add it to the wiki. If this data turns out false on some parts or in general ill just re-edit it or have one of you guys edit it if i can't.

 

EDIT: Nevermind.. looks like someone else did that already. *Looks at Brett* >_>

[Falco252]

(It was me but yeah)
Btw does people have the data for jump startup (it's char specific right?) and fastfall landing recovery? I randomly heard 8f for fastfall but it seems way too short, I tried but since it was my first time I might have forgot something (still did 60fps recording and took into account the first frame) and looked more like 16 to me so idk. (surprisingly enough 8*2 = 16 so maybe the guy tried at 30fps?)

Between the "8" input and the first time the sprite is airborne there is five frames http://falco252.net46.net/fgs/5.png but no clue on how the games handle jump starter tbh (any way to try?)

 

To try fastfall I did 2AB > 4 and saw the first frame he walked back, was this right?

[Rikir]

ahhh that document isn't supposed to be public yet but okay i guess its fine :P

 

i was wondering why there were people peeking at it all the time

 

Oops sorry, I kept seeing it around so I figured it was allright.

[brett_]

(It was me but yeah)

Btw does people have the data for jump startup (it's char specific right?) and fastfall landing recovery? I randomly heard 8f for fastfall but it seems way too short, I tried but since it was my first time I might have forgot something (still did 60fps recording and took into account the first frame) and looked more like 16 to me so idk. (surprisingly enough 8*2 = 16 so maybe the guy tried at 30fps?)

Between the "8" input and the first time the sprite is airborne there is five frames http://falco252.net46.net/fgs/5.png but no clue on how the games handle jump starter tbh (any way to try?)

 

To try fastfall I did 2AB > 4 and saw the first frame he walked back, was this right?

 

that SOUNDS about right, there may be errors due to how the input display works, but that should be good enough as far as a rough estimate on landing recovery. 

 

frame data wise if people want to test, i think we ought to find out how much j.214A and j.214B are on whiff lol. I'd also personally be curious in air backdash landing recovery (even though we can whiff cancel to remove it).

[o Nereus o]

(It was me but yeah)

Btw does people have the data for jump startup (it's char specific right?) and fastfall landing recovery? I randomly heard 8f for fastfall but it seems way too short, I tried but since it was my first time I might have forgot something (still did 60fps recording and took into account the first frame) and looked more like 16 to me so idk. (surprisingly enough 8*2 = 16 so maybe the guy tried at 30fps?)

Between the "8" input and the first time the sprite is airborne there is five frames http://falco252.net46.net/fgs/5.png but no clue on how the games handle jump starter tbh (any way to try?)

 

To try fastfall I did 2AB > 4 and saw the first frame he walked back, was this right?

ahhh ok cool. 

[heavymetalmixer]

A lot of Rion matches :D

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3F9RSSjCVRA

[True_Tech]

lol @ the ma kun vs rion reverse char matches

[Rikir]

A lot of Rion matches :D

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3F9RSSjCVRA

Oh god this audio quality x-x. Ill go through this in the morning and pick out anything worth stealing. 

[brett_]

In case you guys didn't catch it, there's an amazingly important combo by ma-kun early on in the vid. Basically:

 

anything (including 2a) > 2C(2) > 214BB > j.236A > delay j.214A > 5A > 3C > 214BB > air backdash j.6C > whatever you want (Orb, A dive, fast fall, etc).

 

This gives you some semi decent oki off of a 2a starter rather than having to convert into the air combo ender. this works off of assault starter, as well as from basically anything that leads to you hitting them airborn to 214BB.

 

Oki options afterwards are kinda weird because you are hitting them so high with j.6C, but it's still good. I have to leave now so I cant talk much, but yeah.

[LionHeartx]

Nice so new 2a starter bnb?

 

The combo itself feels pretty weird even for Seth combos but once you get used to the timing on a few parts its not that bad. 

[Justice7541]

Is that more damage than just 2A 5C 214CC 6C etc.?

[Falco252]

With all the spread info on multiple pages I think we should have a repository of all cool stuff so people aren't taking a year to find stuff etc, so I did one, if anyone thinks something have been forgotten feel free to ask for additions. (google doc is a pain to add links on, and pastebin doesn't like links either so I'll just put it here)

 

 

http://www.chainshift.com/ - Database > seth vs XXXXX

https://twitter.com/Rion7721 - Rion's twitter

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1De7GMR--Ycdnir8rto3rpztm7_LHeqJYqzyrjYlFviU/edit#gid=1611700088 - Frame datas (others chars too)

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/8881-uniel-seth/page-2#entry827325 - godlike post with further additions by Vista

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/8881-uniel-seth/page-3#entry828884 - oki setups things (the google doc is better now I guess)

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/8881-uniel-seth/?p=829746 - mainly gordeau matchups things

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/8881-uniel-seth/?p=830469 - more oki tech

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/8881-uniel-seth/?p=835240 - meaty 66C is always minus

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xCt8Ps5QsUUEbBM3QoiyOzDfqUHNFVtq47vfROkOiSg/edit - Seth read only Brett's notes 

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/8881-uniel-seth/?p=835699 - new 2A bnb

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/8881-uniel-seth/page-8#entry836373 - new EVEN better 2A bnb

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/8881-uniel-seth/page-8#entry835900 - Rikir breaking down a 3h rion stream

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/8881-uniel-seth/?p=836064 - more cool stuff 

Videos :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB-BZAv6xYc - Seth combos by Rion (bnbs etc)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTkSZkFYHqw - Under Night In-Birth Exe Late: Seth 2.02 Combo Video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2o88Nhmdgc - Under Night In-Birth Exe Late: Seth 2.02 Combo Video 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsgEq56P35E&feature=youtu.be - CMV by Rikir

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkT3VXlhTSY - UNIEL Seth CMV by Garuo: Time Lag Cloud - http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/8881-uniel-seth/?p=835146 Combo transcription

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXsGKPBiO6s - UNIEL - Seth CMV [seth The Kid] Part 1

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ1qQjtVlRU&feature=youtu.be - 214XA counter os thing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJDHWlhf3RY  - how crossup protection affects teleport orb crossups I guess

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmovgkgW5KE - UNIEL official guide subbed by Fragarach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0BvaqFz2XI&feature=youtu.be - 623X investigation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_D-V-Xw68Y&t=1m12s - Seth punishes merkava's 236C

 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLP4iwkTL_yVjCULckXnbfQ6ATVqTlzSB4 - Rikir's youtube playlist

[Rikir]

FYI: I maintain a Seth playlist on my youtube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLP4iwkTL_yVjCULckXnbfQ6ATVqTlzSB4

I dont guarantee the quality of some of the videos though. Some are pretty useless but I just collect them regardless.

 

----------------

EDIT:

 

Went through the massive Rion stream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3F9RSSjCVRA

Aside from just very solid setplay (Seth-play? haha) I didn't really find any new setups/tech/combos.

 

Did pick out some highlights though:

1:56

The combo Brett was talking about. (2C(2) > 214BB > j.236A > delay j.214A > 5A > 3C > 214BB > air backdash j.6C > whatever)

 

2:05 

Good 3B antiair + follow up combo

 

5:54

Orb cross up gimmick?

 

6:55

Command grab setup after 623A > CS > wait for character to get sucked in closer > command grab

7:50

Good CH 2C combo. 2C (CH) > 214BB > 2C(1) > 214CC > 6C > j.236B > j.214A > 623B > 66C > orb hits > 6C > j.236B

 

9:58
Standard fast fall after assault mixup. Also does the orb push Yuzu out of the corner here?

24:30
214CA > Command grab (Although its very clear this time that it wasnt the 214X~A follow up)

29:53

6C > j.236B ... setup >214BB > j.214A > Command Grab 
 

31:14
​Opens up Orie with some awkward 214BB into back dash shenanigans (weird to describe)

35:40
Great use of fundamental mixups (empty jump low/throw)

41:53
Standard unblockable setup with Orb set > Assault j.C > Rise j.A > 214B

43:12
Yolo j.214C works.

53:08

Capitalizing on air unblockable chance with  air blocked orb > 623A > CS > normal

54:18

66C > cross to other side > 2A works out 

 

1:11:39

Nice throw bait with assault.

 

1:14:35

Interesting pressure from full screen EX orb set

 

1:22:56

backdash on reaction to CS to bait something

 

1:24:06

stuff > 6C > Whiff j.214A > IW combos O_o

1:25:10

After reverse beating, 66C can get you back in
ex. 2C > 5A whiff > 66C > 214BB [4] > j.236A > j.214A > 623A > orb block > assault j.C > 214

1:29:50

Command grab setup into command grab setup lol

1:45:10
Same thing again!

2:11:25

Good punish against air slash vs Yuzu

 

2:13:50

Seth vs Byakuya. First time seeing this recorded lol.

2:39:50

"Catch me if you can" Rion runs away from Linne for 20 seconds.

 

2:43:25
Cool escape from the corner vs Byakuya
 

General Matchup notes:

Vs Yuzu:

Air camping is pretty effective since you keep out of her slash range. Dash shielding is really good to get in when going up against her stance slashes (actually you should always just shield them in general).

 

Vs Orie

She doesnt have much of an answer to air camping either. Her Evasion (FF) can be shielded for a free punish (40:37). Her Tanatos strings have a pretty decent gap between them (ex 214A > 214B) that you can 623C through.

 

Vs Linne:

Again air camping works well. 66C is really good for punishing those gaps in her strings when shes poking you from mid range (ex 6C pressure from her)

 

 

[Rikir]

Sorry for double posting:

http://finalclause.dantarion.com/hitboxes/#12/2/0

Hitbox viewer!

 

So who wants to add these to the wiki? ;o

[Tomo009]

I can't get any of the supposed orb crossup setups to work, is there something I am doing wrong?

 

For example 214[A]  > 214 I can block either way.

 

Even if I do 214 xx j.214A there is no mixup, it will crossup if the divekick hits first but it can be blocked either way for the whole string if the fireball hits first.

[brett_]

crossing up with the orb only works if you are teleporting onto the same side as the orb (aka the orb was originally behind them). If the orb is on the same side you are and you tp behind them the orb can be blocked either way.

 

it also doesn't work if they shield, because shielding gives you crossup protection.

 

EDIT: it also tends to have crossup protection if you crossed them up while they're already blocking high (so they're walking backwards). If they crouch block there's no protection, but if they switch to high block at the right time prior to the teleport going off, there is some protection. That's obviously a disadvantage, but I've been doing this setup in matches against people who've gotten pretty used to seth and its still had its fair share of success (and low risk), so I think its still worth doing. JP seths seem to go for it sometimes too so I'm sure there's merit in it.

[Rikir]

Is that more damage than just 2A 5C 214CC 6C etc.?

 

No. It does less damage. BUUTTT MORE IMPORTANTLY, it works on Eltnum. So we have a decent oki option off of 2A against her now.

[Justice7541]

No. It does less damage. BUUTTT MORE IMPORTANTLY, it works on Eltnum. So we have a decent oki option off of 2A against her now.

2A 5C 214CC 6C j.236B j.214A 21[4B] 2C 5C (orb hits) 6C works on Eltnum.  Deals slightly less than 623A ender but gives pretty good oki.

[LionHeartx]

you cant really confirm into 5c off a single 2a (or maybe you can if you just that real) the best things about this new route imo is how consistent it is and that you can get an orb out that is basically impossible to destroy because its so far up.