[UNIEL] Hilda

[TD]

Thank you very much lolokoa, your efforts are appreciated.

623b is indeed plus and is basically a completely free pressure reset unless the foe either jumps or can beat it with a dp, range dependent.

Surprised pin is minus at all. Though it also isn't punishable on block at all so.

[DaiAndOh]

Great work!

I think the startups being off by one frame on the JP page has to do with treating the first frame as part of the active frames, or not.

Here's some more tech (check description, he actually forgets Hilda in the vid)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofIE3-tXWHQ

Interesting idea here...limited usage but the damage increase is very significant.

[UltraDavid]

I haven't watched vids of her yet so I'm not sure if this is old news already, but she has a nice midscreen restand into high/low 50/50 that's mostly safe after combos into the drop ball (you know, holding A/B/C and letting go, I dunno what it's called heh).

Do whatever combo into drop ball, then wait a sec as the opponent starts to slump, then hit 2B or 2C for the restand. You can cancel 2B/2C into either another drop ball for an overhead or a underground-low-attack-special-thing for a low, and in both situations you can confirm the hit into another combo. The reason it's 2B or 2C is that you might end up at slightly different range depending on the combo you used, meaning you need to know whether to store B or C dropball. If you need B dropball then you do 2C xx B dropball; if you need C dropball, then you do 2B xx C dropball.

 

The other nice thing about this is that since you're doing this at a little range, very few characters have the range to dragon punch out of the small gap between the 2B/2C and the dropball/low special. Reversal grim reaper gets out of it of course, but most reversals just whiff, letting you easily punish into another combo back into the same setup if you want.

[Eshi]

Great work!

I think the startups being off by one frame on the JP page has to do with treating the first frame as part of the active frames, or not.

Here's some more tech (check description, he actually forgets Hilda in the vid)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofIE3-tXWHQ

Interesting idea here...limited usage but the damage increase is very significant.

This actually does seem useful for Hilda since she could confirm whiff punishes from fullscreen. That's really sick.

[Ssuusshhii]

I haven't watched vids of her yet so I'm not sure if this is old news already, but she has a nice midscreen restand into high/low 50/50 that's mostly safe after combos into the drop ball (you know, holding A/B/C and letting go, I dunno what it's called heh).

Do whatever combo into drop ball, then wait a sec as the opponent starts to slump, then hit 2B or 2C for the restand. You can cancel 2B/2C into either another drop ball for an overhead or a underground-low-attack-special-thing for a low, and in both situations you can confirm the hit into another combo. The reason it's 2B or 2C is that you might end up at slightly different range depending on the combo you used, meaning you need to know whether to store B or C dropball. If you need B dropball then you do 2C xx B dropball; if you need C dropball, then you do 2B xx C dropball.

 

The other nice thing about this is that since you're doing this at a little range, very few characters have the range to dragon punch out of the small gap between the 2B/2C and the dropball/low special. Reversal grim reaper gets out of it of course, but most reversals just whiff, letting you easily punish into another combo back into the same setup if you want.

 

The standard tech after ending in the Lynchpin is to 214A/B, dash up jump, and charge jC for overhead or half-charge it into a low 2A.  It's prone to reversals because you have to commit to the jump before they actually have to block the projectiles, but in that case, I'm pretty sure you can just late assault and do it (though the reward is much lower).

 

This actually does seem useful for Hilda since she could confirm punish whiffs from fullscreen. That's really sick.

 

It would be, but I think they're patching it out.

[madigawadesperate]

over 5k combo w/ veil off

 

41236+C(all swords should connect), 41236+D

 

If it doesn't hit, you're at advantage and can perform a reverence pillar/lynchpin mix up 

[Gambler]

66C and 66B are pressure godsends. Also 214B after a lynchpin is so goddamn good, makes it hard for people like waldstein/gordeau/merkava to respond. Also Her 421(412?) teleport is great too, leads into a 2C nicely and spooks the opponent. Man I'm barely comboing but still am winning cause these options are so goddamn good (so long as I don't let them get in my hurtzone)

[lolokoa]

Great work!

I think the startups being off by one frame on the JP page has to do with treating the first frame as part of the active frames, or not.

 

yeh, think so too

I base my count on Orie's frame data and a post general discussion about hyde 5A being 10f(which it is btw) 

 

compiled my current data here

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QT8EdGPB5I-9wR0Khx1c47RpOqYo4uBh7fs4DWOAy6w/edit?usp=sharing

 

[ShinsoBEAM]

yeh, think so too

I base my count on Orie's frame data and a post general discussion about hyde 5A being 10f(which it is btw) 

 

compiled my current data here

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QT8EdGPB5I-9wR0Khx1c47RpOqYo4uBh7fs4DWOAy6w/edit?usp=sharing

 

It would be awesome if you could also compile the data for canceling into 2A as well.

[lolokoa]

It would be awesome if you could also compile the data for canceling into 2A as well.

You mean like 2C>2A string?

Well 2a has 20f overall with 7f start up I say more or less 13f recovery by whiffing 2a

[Dark Ranger88]

If you have 100 meter and someone (like Linne) runs up under your j.236A, you can whiff cancel it into j.41236C to put them into pressure/mixup.

[UltraDavid]

The standard tech after ending in the Lynchpin is to 214A/B, dash up jump, and charge jC for overhead or half-charge it into a low 2A.  It's prone to reversals because you have to commit to the jump before they actually have to block the projectiles, but in that case, I'm pretty sure you can just late assault and do it (though the reward is much lower).

 

Which is... better? Or not? I don't understand this post.

[drugtown]

Which is... better? Or not? I don't understand this post.

 

he's saying that's your 50/50 after lynchpin

 

you 214A/B, dash jump and then they have to guess if you're going to go high with j.[C] or if you're going to fake it and go low with 2A

 

edit: lynchpin being the drop ball

[Ssuusshhii]

Which is... better? Or not? I don't understand this post.

 

Sorry, should have clarified.  It's better because it is 50/50 high-low ambiguous.  22B/Lynchpin B isn't really a mix-up because the overhead is very telegraphed (but it will work once or twice against people who don't know her options).

[Dark Ranger88]

The standard tech after ending in the Lynchpin is to 214A/B, dash up jump, and charge jC for overhead or half-charge it into a low 2A.  It's prone to reversals because you have to commit to the jump before they actually have to block the projectiles, but in that case, I'm pretty sure you can just late assault and do it (though the reward is much lower).

 

Why fully charged j.C? Isn't that negative if they block it?

 

Also how does the standard 214A/B > dash > jump > j.[C]/Whiff 2A work against that silly backwards tech everyone loves to do. I've been messing around and it seems the only way I can keep up with the backwards roll is to use 214B~6B > Dash > Assault jump > j.C. Otherwise they get to roll backwards and jump away for free because Hilda's run is painfully slow.

 

 

Also what are you guys using for people who use Assault Jump in their pressure? I've had 3B work against some of the slower jump ins, but I tried 3Bing a Chaos player during a set and got CH every time. It also might be just one of his normals instead of an Assault into aerial though; I don't know what moves the cast has yet lol.

[Prototype909]

If you read an assault just shield it

[Ssuusshhii]

Why fully charged j.C? Isn't that negative if they block it?

 

Also how does the standard 214A/B > dash > jump > j.[C]/Whiff 2A work against that silly backwards tech everyone loves to do. I've been messing around and it seems the only way I can keep up with the backwards roll is to use 214B~6B > Dash > Assault jump > j.C. Otherwise they get to roll backwards and jump away for free because Hilda's run is painfully slow.

 

 

Also what are you guys using for people who use Assault Jump in their pressure? I've had 3B work against some of the slower jump ins, but I tried 3Bing a Chaos player during a set and got CH every time. It also might be just one of his normals instead of an Assault into aerial though; I don't know what moves the cast has yet lol.

 

1) Fully charged jC at the appropriate height will let you hit them with the same timing as you would hit them with an empty jump 2A.  They can't rhythm block it, which means they have to completely guess.  I don't know the exact frame data, but I've been able to follow up with a 2A even if they block it.  It may differ on shield, but that is a very risky option for the opponent because they're risking GRD break on an unreactable 50/50.

 

 

2) With 214B, you will have to guess if they will back tech or not in many cases if they are not in the corner.  There's a spacing where you can drop a 214B(6) behind their head that can cover back and a single layer on neutral tech, but it also opens up the opportunity to immediately tech and dash.  Admittedly, I haven't played much with 214A on oki yet, so there might be a workaround with that.

[Doonpa]

Not sure if this was posted already but here's a 200% + CS combo ender off any combo into a lynchpin knockdown:

 

Any combo into B lynchpin, 5[C], 236A, 22C, CS, (236A) 22C.

 

What happens here is that you get to spend 200% meter but thanks to CS you get to build back some meter depending on how much GRD you had before the 2nd super. Its better than doing something like 236A CS 236A 41236+D after a 5[C] since it nets you more damage and builds you back meter so I think this route is pretty useful if you really need a kill but want to get a little meter on the side for the next round. You'll pretty much always get at least 4k+ off almost any starter this way. If anyone has a bigger damage/more meter efficient combo that uses 200% and CS then please share. Trying to avoid VO here as well since it'll take away all your meter and not really give you a chance to build any meter back.   

[Ingage]

Question. If you land a 623B while your back is in the corner. What's a good way to convert off it?

[madworlder]

If you walk out of the corner a bit and stand up, they'll push against you and you can press 5B and do some sort of air combo.

[Eshi]

Which is... better? Or not? I don't understand this post.

214A/B is better than anything else Hilda can do. Restanding them is honestly just a gimmick, they should be holding down back and reacting to lynchpin. However, the charge jC/2A mixup is completely unreactable, can't be option selected and most characters can't DP it since they're stuck blocking the 214X knives.

[Dark Ranger88]

Ummm....so....that Gordeau matchup. Once he gets a knockdown it's just guess wrong and die, right?

 

Nothing we do at match start is guaranteed because he can hit us out of anything that isn't "hold block." This makes it really easy for him to get momentum early. And since we have no reversal to speak of we pretty much have to mash buttons or be eaten alive by command throws that give him tons of GRD...which allows him to chain shift and combo after said command throws.

 

Do I have that about right? Against a good Gord, I can't seem to do anything except try to block his overheads and hope he doesn't like to use the command throws. Is it humanly possible to react to raw command throw oki with a jump?

 

 

Getting dominated in neutral feels bad man. It's like I'm playing Makoto.

 

 

Edit: Lol NOW we have a matchup thread.

[Doonpa]

So I wrote this up to help LK learn about Hilda. It doesnt really have anything I'd expect people to not know about and stuff, but I figured it would be a good thing to share with everyone since its nothing too crazy to keep hidden:

 

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s462/sh/9ac9939d-267b-4e6e-a385-6709051182df/75a6cfeb84077740813154f2647a2f9d

 

Basically my attempt at a general guide. Its definitely not perfect as the game is still new (in the states) and is strictly based off of my own knowledge, so I'd appreciate concrete feedback/corrections/proof reading and editing from anyone willing to help out. Any information i've gotten from other sites/people I have tried to cite in this doc, so if theres any issues with me using said information please let me know. 

 

Note: I'll personally be reviewing my opinions on moves and stuff on my own and make this a bit more professional. Wasn't originally going to share this with the public lol. 

[Eshi]

So I wrote this up to help LK learn about Hilda. 

BANNED

[Eirokaj]

So I wrote this up to help LK learn about Hilda. It doesnt really have anything I'd expect people to not know about and stuff, but I figured it would be a good thing to share with everyone since its nothing too crazy to keep hidden:

 

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s462/sh/9ac9939d-267b-4e6e-a385-6709051182df/75a6cfeb84077740813154f2647a2f9d

 

Basically my attempt at a general guide. Its definitely not perfect as the game is still new (in the states) and is strictly based off of my own knowledge, so I'd appreciate concrete feedback/corrections/proof reading and editing from anyone willing to help out. Any information i've gotten from other sites/people I have tried to cite in this doc, so if theres any issues with me using said information please let me know. 

 

Note: I'll personally be reviewing my opinions on moves and stuff on my own and make this a bit more professional. Wasn't originally going to share this with the public lol. 

 

Good stuff, Diarmuid! With this, I can finally get good with my boo~