[P4AU] Rise Kujikawa Gameplay Discussion

[Poultrygeist]

It's still week 1, but Jesus this character is wacky.  Just like writing off a character as S tier off promotional footage is dumb, I don't want to write this character off as garbage when she's only a week old, but it's gonna take some serious shit for her to make an impression IMO.  I do hope that we get proven wrong though.  

[AchedSphinx]

Why must Rise's DP be FC? And on top of that, it has sooo much recovery, it's insane. At least 30+ frames where the opponent can punish and get a FC. She's really fun though. I also like her combos and pressure. She has a some things going for her. I also think Mitsuru is a challenge to get in on. She's not strictly a zoner, though she does zone, and man that 5A and j.A gets me too much.

[Justice7541]

Midscreen blocked 22A+B 5AA > dance super is airtight on regular block.  Lawl.

 

That means if you do something like 5AA 2B 22A+B 5AA 214214C+D they are forced to mash/DP the 22A+B on reaction or attempt to mash IB DP, or eat a guaranteed 6k provided you're good at hitting perfect notes (if not, 4.6k).  Pretty funny.

[AchedSphinx]

Midscreen blocked 22A+B 5AA > dance super is airtight on regular block.  Lawl.

 

That means if you do something like 5AA 2B 22A+B 5AA 214214C+D they are forced to mash/DP the 22A+B on reaction or attempt to mash IB DP, or eat a guaranteed 6k provided you're good at hitting perfect notes (if not, 4.6k).  Pretty funny.

 

What happens if they late tech?

[Justice7541]

It's not a late tech, it's a standing blockstring.

[Justice7541]

Extra shenanigans with Shadow Rise:

 

Blocked whatever > Shadow Rampage > dash 5AA 236C+D 214A 22A+B 214A+B 236A+B dash 214214C+D

 

Guaranteed 4.8k unblockable off any blocked hit, totally airtight.  Needs to be bursted or CA'd to escape.

[edollarports]

Fuzzy j.B off of deep j.A is a thing, you can combo off of it with j.C scanned oroboros, and possibly other stuff. Haven't looked into it too hard.

[Loli Bacon]

Fuzzy j.B off of deep j.A is a thing, you can combo off of it with j.C scanned oroboros, and possibly other stuff. Haven't looked into it too hard.

 

wtf is oroboros

 

 

 

Extra shenanigans with Shadow Rise:

 

Blocked whatever > Shadow Rampage > dash 5AA 236C+D 214A 22A+B 214A+B 236A+B dash 214214C+D

 

Guaranteed 4.8k unblockable off any blocked hit, totally airtight.  Needs to be bursted or CA'd to escape.

 

This setup has won me SO many matches tonight, thank you GOD.

[SupaFella0]

Risette Field. It is very similar to Strider Hiryu's (Marvel VS Capcom) Oroboros move.

[Loli Bacon]

This character is bad. Like, P4A Liz/Labrys bad. Jesus Christ, she needs work. Your pressure is going to be 5AA, stuff > 236A and that's it. Everything else is too slow and can be pretty much dashed > 5A or just straight up 5B'd by a lot of characters.

[furix]

Her normals are pretty bad, she gets outranged by most characters. Also, notes are easily escaped midscreen if she ends her strings with 236A or 236B after a sweep, most people just ignore them. I think she's not as bad as P4A Liz or Labrys, she's worse lol. I honestly wanna keep telling myself that it's still week 1 and that she could be better... But, I just can't. ;-;

 

EDIT: I take some things I said back, lightning is actually really good. Specially SB.

[TD]

That's too bad.

Who knows when the next patch is going to take place. We have a long time to deal with this rise most likely.

I find it good to alternate between okis. Sometimes I'll do 236a for like throw setups, sometimes 236b for delay tech punish, I believe throwing a 5b will yellow beat and notes detonate allowing a further combo, and if they tech immediately the remnants of 236b will keep them in blockstun. 22a is the most preferred but can be beaten which is why I suggest alternating in the first place. 22a is preferred. Depending on how the foe likes beating 22a, 22b/sb do the same thing but further and homing respectively. 236d is sometimes used, small vacuum, can be safe at certain ranges both in frames and beating some dp's. Lastly rosette field can be used as an oki tool. No explanations here, once it's out you have a free get in pass. Edit; forgot 2c which can be snuck in on oki sometimes, another free setup.

I go about my oki thinking how or if they are going to beat my 22a, and then I'll start doing delay oki to keep them guessing. Like ...3c delay 236b or delay 22a etc. getting them in 22a grants you a free setup or mixup. I'd setup a wacky 5d or something here. No great setups yet but I'm working on it.

As for shadow rise setup posted, I'm not understanding the concept. Can specials be canceled into each other in berserk mode or something? 214a isn't really a blockstrings tool so that's why I'm asking.

[furix]

Yeah I alternate on my okis too, works a lot better like you said. And if I notice they like teching back too much I set up 22B. The best is when they just start respecting you and start blocking, then you are free to 2C and throw whatever. 2C is still pretty good as it hits behind her as well. I've stuffed cross ups with it.

 

Also yeah shadow mode lets you cancel specials into specials, so that blockstring is legit, they'd have to CA to get out of that blockstun or burst. Of course it means you use 100% of your meter, but it's at least guranteed damage. (and a lot of it really)

[Sadeyo]

I am beyond confused about Rise supers because this was just experimenting in the middle of a match because I got both the dance super and slap super against Yosuke's tornado, it was beyond hilarious. Plus-...I'll just browse the wiki or somewhere on her normals to see what I can buffer between normals for punishment. I really can't find anything practical behind her 236X, maybe to set off a few notes but is there anywhere I can apply this between confirmation? Ugh, ,I'm looking at the combo thread this week if I'm not busy.

[LitchiFayeBling]

when do you use 22a

 

post sweep seems like a losing proposition imo

[TD]

5c, 2c, max range 5b (before the mic throw), 236b,  any time you have space etc. quite a few moves and scenarios, but it's all just gimmicks she cycles through. if the char cant punish you in a full second, this move will come out. 

same strat with 22b and sb, with a and sb being the mains, and 22b for if you expect backward movement.

 

the 3 rains are all also situational aa's. 

[Justice7541]

So I've been trying to decide whether Shadow Rise or regular Rise is better and I dunno at this point:

 

Shadow pros:

- Faster meter build and meter carryover means having access to meter for setups and combos pretty much all the time

- Can do Shadow Rampage unblockables

- Can do DDR unblockables at any time

- More health overall

 

Cons:

- Damage loss is really noticeable

- Doesn't seem to have any amazing combos in Shadow Rampage, damage-wise

- No burst

- Doesn't really get that much more meter in total since she doesn't get the free 50 meter from Awakening

 

Honestly I think it might just be a matchup-specific thing, I wouldn't want to be stuck without a burst against a high-damage Shadow character if said Shadow character had a burstable big-damage combo.  Fortunately the two verisons of Rise aren't that different.

[Celerity]

I think shadow mode just exacerbates her already low damage. The unblockables are interesting, I admit I haven't tried it, but I don't like the idea of needing to open the opponent up an additional 1-2 times per round. I think you'll end up blowing all of your meter on SBs and OMCs just to compensate for the damage reduction.

[Justice7541]

I've been working on trying to find a Shadow Rampage unblockable reset combo that leads into good damage but the one I'm doing now is burstable unfortunately. What I've got so far is:

5AAA > Rampage > 236C+D 5AA 2B(2) 236C+D (combo drops midway, opponent is either reset into standing hitstun or standing block) 236A+B 236A (notes detonate) 22A+B 236B 214A+B 214214C+D

So basically you're using SB Disc twice (which has SMP I believe) to make the combo drop as the second Disc is hitting them so they're forced to either DP from too far away to reach you (for most characters) or get put into an airtight blockstring that ends with unblockable DDR super. Deals 1.5k minimum with the first part plus 4.8k for a perfect SB DDR. Haven't tested extensively but I believe it should work whether the disc hits or is blocked after the reset; if the disc hits and you get the combo into DDR off that it should do about 5.5k for the second part. 6.3-7k for a Shadow Rampage combo that can be escaped with burst or meter isn't great but it's the best I can come up with at the moment.

On a more practical level, here's something stupid I found:

Midscreen, anything into 214B > 5AA 2A+B delay 236B (safe meaty) dash 5AA 2B(1) (detonates note) 22A+B 5AA (lightning hits) dash 214214C+D

Pressing 236B so it hits meaty late makes it DP-safe then everything after is airtight. So basically if they don't delay tech your midscreen combo they're forced to CA or eat 6k.

Honestly I think the DDR super is a little bit too good given how obnoxiously long it takes.

[Loli Bacon]

My friends and I just quit to Character Select when I land it to save time.

That oki > setup off crouching confirm midscreen is really hot. Thanks brah.

[DeathArcana]

If rhythm super is done at the end of a combo how scaled is it?

[Justice7541]

I think it's about 2k for a perfect SB DDR at max proration. It's not great, I think doing a legit Rampage corner combo ending in DDR was giving me about 2k extra and it was pretty hard. For reference: 5AA 2A+B > Rampage > 236C+D 236A+B 236A 22A+B 236B 214A+B 236236B OMC 214214C+D got me about 6k.

Also I forgot to mention that that midscreen Rampage combo I posted earlier is a unblockable reset. They should prorate out of the initital combo midway through the second SB Disc (which means the only point they can DP out is pretty far away from you, making it DP-safe from most DPs) then the rest from there is an airtight blockstring into SB DDR. I used that particular string instead of the easier 236C+D 214A 22A+B 214A+B 236A+B one because in this case they might not block the SB Disc reset and the 214A would knock down. Doing 236C+D 236A+B 236A without accidentally getting a super is a bit annoying though.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

Frame data

http://jbbs.shitaraba.net/bbs/lite/read.cgi/game/52991/1397747198/638

 

Thanks for posting this! Some thoughts based on what we have so far

 

• 5AA being -2 and 2A being -3 is pretty decent for throwing in some quick pressure resets
• 2B's head invuln has a pretty nice length of time
• oh god, that start up on 5D/jD. It better be +31 for that much startup! I'm curious why the 2D variants get an extra 15f of startup.
• Can't quite make out the type of invuln on sweep through google translate but since sweeps got a general buff in Ultimax to allow low profiling stuff, I'm assuming it's body invuln. In any case, it kicking in on the 4f is pretty nice combined with its reach
• 300f for the scan/analyze condition. So, that's 5 seconds to capitalize on it. Hmmmmm, I guess the best use of a mid combo scan then is to pop it with a mid blockstring 236C/D. This makes sense since a lot of the scan combos I've seen in the combo thread so far don't allow you to setup the usual oki afterwards.

 

Also, I deduced that the first 4 are startup/active/recovery/frame adv but not sure what the last 3 numbers are for each move.I want to say it's blockstun/hitstun/croucing hitstun but I'm not quite sure.

By the way, you wouldn't happen to know how credible this frame data is would you? I'm wondering if I should start tossing this info into the wiki.

[Celerity]

By the way, you wouldn't happen to know how credible this frame data is would you? I'm wondering if I should start tossing this info into the wiki.

It's unofficial, but considering how comprehensive it is, I'd say the guy knows what he's doing. I don't think it could hurt to add it to the wiki in lieu of anything better (which we probably won't ever receive).

[LitchiFayeBling]

anyone know what Rise's hold A does? i heard it adds special properties