HunterSFL Posted December 8, 2008 Posted December 8, 2008 It seems that, at a certain height at least, you don't bounce up from hitting with j2c and instead land. Are you saying this because you've tested it, or are you assuming? Because I tried everything I could think of today to get the effect from that video, and nothing worked. I tried doing it as low as possible, I tried immediately canceling it into another aerial, pressing directions, etc. So can anyone explain how to get the same effect as the video?
magz Posted December 8, 2008 Posted December 8, 2008 Are you saying this because you've tested it, or are you assuming? Because I tried everything I could think of today to get the effect from that video, and nothing worked. I tried doing it as low as possible, I tried immediately canceling it into another aerial, pressing directions, etc. So can anyone explain how to get the same effect as the video? My apologies, I had assumed it to be that way. I'll try testing it out this week since j2c's a really useful move when it doesn't bounce. Edit: I think I've figured it out. Also, on page 1, Allegretto and Cantabile should be switched. That being said, the trick is what's called "アレキャン" (are-kyan) a.k.a Allegretto Cancel. My assumption is that by canceling j.2C on hit into Allegretto, if you're low enough to the ground, you will hit the ground during the startup of the move and thus using Allegretto's movement-canceling effect to land instantly instead of bouncing. Of course, this is just theory crafting until I can test it myself. I'll probably try it today and see how it goes.
Zeero Posted December 8, 2008 Posted December 8, 2008 My assumption is that by canceling j.2C on hit into Allegretto, if you're low enough to the ground, you will hit the ground during the startup of the move and thus using Allegretto's movement-canceling effect to land instantly instead of bouncing. I was playing around with j2c in air combos (coz i thought u might be able to do something like ja j2c (pushes you up a bit) repeat... of coz i was stupid) but i canceled j2c into j214C and the bounce didn't happen, so that sounds possible., but wouldn't there be landing recovery from j214C? My memory tells me whenever i whiff a j214C, i actually land and get punished. Some stuff for first post (all based on my opinion, correct me if im wrong)... on second thought im going to make a complete thing since our first post isnt as useful as it should be: Carl Normals: 5A: Carl attacks with the little white thing that crawls all over him (another robot?) Fast, but very short ranged. Useful for punishing moves if you can reach since it feels like it prorates less than 2A. 5B: Carl attacks with his cape. Decent reach and speed. Whiff punishable against certain characters with longer reach? 5C: Carl stabs the floor with another gadget of his. Decent startup and recovery. DIO likes to use this a lot for poking. 2A: Carl hits low with his small robot. For a 2A in this game, its pretty slow, and range isn't that great either. Prorates like crazy? 2B: Carl "sweeps" the floor with his cape and hits low. Decent reach and speed but not safe on whiff. I think 5B is better. HunterSFL: Just wanted to note, if feels to me like 2B is significantly faster then 5B, like 1/3 of the total time of 5B less. 2C: Carl shoots his cannon. Only useful in 2C8D loop. Don't try it as anti air, it has no invincibility... (does it trade hits?) jA: Carl hits with his little robot again. Might be useful as anti air because of speed... but I wouldn't risk it. jB: Carl hits forward with his cape. Pretty good startup and range. I think the jap BBS said it can be used for air to air fights if you use it early. (I'm guessing you do 8B and they airdash into it or something) jC: Carl hits with his knife. Your main jump in attack. Doesn't have a really big hitbox under him so against certain crouching characters, sometimes when you airdash too high and do jC, it'll completely whiff and you'll land behind them (and get punished?). 6A: Carl's little robot thing takes off his hat and hits at maybe a 80 degree angle on top of him. Has very little active frames and a small (forward) hitbox. So its good only when your opponent is above your head. Don't try it against people with long reaching jump-in's because you'll most likely lose. 6B: Hits low, part of your basic combo. One of his farthest normals. On CH, it will pop the opponent up a bit in the air and towards you, untechable until they hit ground. At max distance, sometimes throwing this out will net you a CH against people trying to run in on you, then you can do 5c jb djbc. But don't throw it out too randomly, people who jump over it can definitely punish you. In pressure strings with opponent in between, using this will put carl closer to his opponent so the pressure is harder to escape, but it pushes guard gauge less than 5C so the choice is yours. 6C: Carl's overhead. Startup is pretty slow (feels like a whole second, remember to not hold the C) and telegraphed. Chargeable and full charged = unblockable. If this lands, they stun and crumble to the ground. I think if your opponent mashes, they can get out of the stun faster. Range isn't that great and only links off 5A (I couldn't get it off 2A, but the jap wiki says you can...). You can link 5b (then 5c and loop if opponent in between or 6b->623C if Carl's alone) after the overhead lands if you're fast enough. 3C: Carl's sweep. Not safe on block, not safe on whiff, so use mainly as part of combos (he has better choices though). Use in block strings only if you've got your opponent in between Carl and Nirvana, or if you plan to cancel it into a Gear super. Sometimes cancelling into 623C is also safe if your opponent is pushed far enough. j2C: Carl drill and falls vertically down with his knife first. On hit/block, Carl bounces. On whiff and you hit the ground, theres enough recovery for opponent to punish if they can reach. If you special cancel it early enough, Carl doesn't bounce. Use low on the ground and cancel to 214C to land for a 2nd overhead option. Throws: 4B+C: Carl picks the opponent up with his cape and whips him down onto the ground behind him, floor bounces. Look at combos section for followups. 6B+C: Carl picks the opponent up and slams him into the ground in front of him. Look at combos section for followups. Carl Specials: 236A/B: Roll. Goes through Nirvana and opponents. A goes for a short distance while B goes further. Has above knees invincibility after certain frames? Theres a recovery after the roll is completed which is punishable. 623C: Carl sends a gadget on the ground, on hit it launches and drags opponent towards you. Drags a certain distance only so if it hits too far, follow up is impossible. Useful sometimes to extend blockstun for Nirvana. Reaches very far but whiff punishable, so only throw it out when nirvana is nearby to protect you. Punishable on block if you do it too close. j214C: Multi stabs with Carl's knife. Slow startup so its used primarily to end air combos (if it hits). Has a pretty bad landing recovery(?) and punishable on whiff if they're nearby. Nirvana Normals: 5D: Activates Nirvana, holding 369 moves her forward, 147 moves her back. Very quick recovery if she is hit out of this move. 6D: Nirvana does a punch forward. Decent startup and range. Your main move for pressure strings/loops. Takes out a good chunk of guard gauge. 2D: Nirvana does an overhead ground slam. Really slow startup but can be used as unblockable (2A+D 5A 5B 5C i think) if situated properly. On hit, it floor bounces. I think you can follow up with 2C 8D loop on hit. 4D: Nirvana does a 2 hit spinning move. Quick startup and first hit has super armor throughout. 2nd hit wall bounces and allows Carl to do follow up, including gear super. 8D: Nirvana claps her hands in the air and creates a circular shockwave. 2 hit move. 1hit on the shockwave, 1 hit near her hands. Useful to end ground combos with if possible (eg, 623C 8D) since it is knockdown if it hits near the ground. When opponent is higher in the sky (2C8D loop), you want only the outer hit to hit, since that has a lot more stun time. Unblockable when opponent is in the air? 3D: Nirvana spin sweeps the ground. 4 hits in total and hits low. Decent startup (not sure about recovery). Nirvana Specials: 623D: Nirvana extends her "nails" at a 45 degree angle. Quick startup and far range makes it a good "prediction" anti air. If you tried to use it as anti air on reaction she'll (or Carl'll) most likely get hit out of it. Good way to trap your opponent in the corner if you think they'll try to jump out. Can also be used as part of Carl's air combo if positioned correctly. 41236D: Nirvana's arm drill. Very slow startup and long recovery but moves quite a bit and lots of guard stun/damage if it lands. Use with caution as it can be jumped over and then you'll be alone without Nirvana for a good while. Not as spammable on players who know how to deal with it. 63214D: Nirvana's command grab where she walks forward a very far distance and grabs your opponent. Slow startup and long recovery. Like all other command throws, its breakable unless it lands when opponent isn't blocking/getting hit. And its pretty easy to see it coming. Personally, I dont think its that good of a move since its so slow, and on whiff, she takes a long time to finish walking and recover. Supers: 632146C: Carl's gear super. Does not have invincibility and has a long startup, so don't use on wakeup. Decent for anti air attemps if they're far away, if they're too close they can hit you and land right in between Carl and the gear and be safe (also depends on who). Good way to finish off your opponent with a simple 2a 2b 3c 632146C because its burst proof and does almost 3k damage. Decent if used to stall time for Nirvana or whatever reason when opponent is in corner. You can still move nirvana while the gear is there so open your imagination (632146C 22d 41236D 236B perhaps?). Don't bother with it in block strings if its midscreen because your opponent can FD and get pushed back out of it (don't think its punishable though). 236236D: Nirvana punch sequence. Has super armor throughout and does about 2k damage only but very quick startup (i think you can even do 2a 5b 236236D and it'll combo). Lots of guardstun so you can do whatever you want (including 6C full charge unblockable) if you get your opponent to block it. If it hits while they're on the ground, you can do 5C/6C xN (but time it properly, else the punches might not combo). If it hits the opponent while they're in the air, they can tech and run away. After it fully connects you can follow up with an air combo with Carl. For max pain, after it connects, do a gear super. While the super is burst proof, they can burst carl's 5C if you do it. But even if they burst, the super keeps going so they'll still get hit. 214214D: Nirvana's big punch that hits vertically upwards. Links off Carl's 2C (from combo vid) but doesn't even do that much damage then. You have better ways to spend your heat. Counter Assault: Carl's DAA is his 6C. Range isnt that good on that move so use with caution. Carl Notes: -Carl has the farthest kara throw in the game with 6B~C. Use it well since Carls throw reach isnt that far... Nirvana Notes: Life: -Nirvana has a set amount of life shown under Carl's life. -When she is completely out of life, she cannot be used and will need to recharge herself. The Nirvana life bar becomes red during this time and she has electricity all around her. Recharging takes ??? seconds. -When Nirvana isn't doing anything (the D button is released), she regains her life slowly. -Everything Nirvana does require a set amount of her life to do. Not sure if each move has a specific amount (but sounds reasonable). -Getting her hit will also decrease her life, the decrease is dependent on what she got hit by. Projectiles will take Nirvana's life as well. Attacking: -Nirvana is separate from Carl and is controlled with the D button. Carl won't have to do any animation or anything in order to have Nirvana attack. -All of Nirvana's move can be negative edged (executed by releasing D instead of pressing D). -Every normals and specials that Nirvana can do has a start up time with it. Each move have a different start up. If Nirvana is hit during start up, her move is canceled. -When she is hit out of start up, she will take time to recover before she can do another move. It seems like different moves have different recovery time when she is hit. Perhaps it is the same recovery time as if her move actually whiffed/hit? -Whenever Carl blocks or is hit, unless Nirvana is doing a super, she will stop whatever shes doing. Even if shes halfway through her 41236D. She will then experience a recovery time (perhaps same as above?). -Each move has super armor for a certain number of hits before she stops. I'm not sure what these numbers are yet but when i find out i'll put it on the nirvana move list. -Projectiles "don't count" as hits. they won't stop what Nirvana is doing. So if you feel like it, send her as a projectile shield. Misc: -When Nirvana is active (doing a move, moving, whatever) she "takes up space" on the screen. You can push her forward or use her to block off your opponent. This is also when your opponent can hit her. -When Nirvana isn't active, characters can freely walk through her and attacks pass through her. -Even though Nirvana takes hits, it doesn't negate the hit. A 1 hit move can hit both Carl and Nirvana if you're within reach. Activation Frames Skip: -Everytime you want to move Nirvana, you first have to "activate" Nirvana (by pressing D). You can see these "activation frames" whenever you see the blue symbol flash on top of Nirvana's head. -After you've activated Nirvana, using negative edge, you can perform a Nirvana move and the move will perform faster than if you did the move by tapping. Example. if you did 6Dtap, Nirvana first activates, then does the punch. if you did 6D with negative edge, the activation has been already done ahead of time (when you pressed and held D), so 6D will come out faster. In effect, you can think of your 6Dtap as a 6Dhold 6Drelease all in one motion. -Everytime Nirvana finishes a move, you can keep her in "active" mode by holding D. This will stop her from going back to passive mode (when D isn't pressed). This allows Nirvana to skip the activation frames for her next move so you don't have to do 1 "Nirvana Activation" for every move you do with her. -You can also do chain hits with Nirvana. Theres a certain number of frames after each move that Nirvana does where you can tap the next move for Nirvana. But this limits how versatile Nirvana can be (if you held D, there may be time for you to move nirvana before the next hit). -The best thing(?) to do is always have Nirvana activated so if you need her to do a move, it will perform faster, but this will use up her life more quickly. Combos: Edit 2: Updated combo listing... *Move Damage 41236D…1500 63214D…1500 2D…1000 6D…1200? 4D…2 Hits 950 623D…950 3D…650 Average Forward Throw…950 2A > 2B > 6B > 623C > 5B > JC > j.B > JC > j.C…1500 632146C 2500 *Carl-only Combos 5B > 6B > 623C > 5B > HJC > j.B > JC > Throw or j.BC [j.214C?] 2B > 3C > 2B > 2C > 236A > Vertical HJ > j.B > JC > j.B > j.214C (3C)┗IAD > j.2C AlleCan > 5C > JC > j.AB > j.BC [j.214C?] 6A (CH) > j.B > JC > j.BC > j.214C and/or 623D Forward Throw > j.2C Allecan > 2C > 236A～ Reverse Throw > 236A > 5C > JC～ Air Throw > 5C or 632146C or Air Throw *Nirvana Combos 2B > 22D > 3C> 236A > 2B > (2C>8D)xn Forward Throw + 22D > 236A > 2B > (2C>8D)xn Reverse Throw + 22D > 236A > [2B OR Move Nirvana Closer] > (2C>8D)xn Air throw > 41236D～ *Carl Enemy Nirvana (Sandwich Combos) [Dash or Walk Forward > 2A > 5A > 5B > 5C > 6D]xn [be sure to hold D before Nirvana deactivates if you want to loop properly.] [j.C > 5B > 5C > 6D]xn (See Above) Forward Throw > j.2C > (2C>8D)xn [Might need to allecan the j.2C] *Super Combos ~ 5C > 632146C [spacing/timing dependant.] ~ 3C > 623146C 2C > 214214D Ground Throw > 214214D > (2C>8D)xn Air Throw > 632146C Nirvana Throw (63214D) > 632146C > 214214D 5B > 5C > 236236D > 5C*N > 5B > j.B > JC > j.BC [214C]
kousaka Posted December 8, 2008 Posted December 8, 2008 j.2c is a normal so we can also try stuff like FD cancel or even air throw whiff cancel
magz Posted December 8, 2008 Posted December 8, 2008 236236D: Nirvana punch sequence. About 2k damage only but very quick startup (i think you can even do 2a 5b 236236D and it'll combo). Lots of guardstun so you can do whatever you want (including 6C full charge unblockable) if you get your opponent to block it. If it hits while they're on the ground, you can do 5C/6C xN (but time it properly, else the punches might not combo). If it hits the opponent while they're in the air, they can tech and run away. After it fully connects you can follow up with an air combo with Carl. For max pain, after it connects, do a gear super. While the super is burst proof, they can burst carl's 5C if you do it. But even if they burst, the super keeps going so they'll still get hit. It would be important to note that this move has full superarmor throughout the entire move AFAIK. I don't think I've ever seen Nirvana stop once she's started. Even if you are hit, thrown, or killed, she continues attacking. In regards to Allegretto Canceling, this was taken straight off the J-BBS: "低空で J2C>J214C(ｱﾚｸﾞﾚｯﾄ) をするとJ214Cが出る前に着地できる、通称アレキャン" When doing low J2C>J214C(Allegretto), before J214C comes out, you can land. Nicknamed arekyan. So that's definitely what Murasaki was doing in that video. If you check the comments, one of them refers to allegretto cancel as well. Edit: In fact, just now I tested it. You don't even have to be that low to do the cancel. It basically allows you to use J2C like Rachel's J2C which is pretty freaking awesome.
Zeero Posted December 8, 2008 Posted December 8, 2008 done, im adding more to that post when i have time so first post can be updated. Post up if you see anything you want to speak against what i said so i can edit. Carl seems to have a small hitbox and heavier(?) so some combos will not work on him. (ie. Jin's C mash doesnt launch him, ice car doesnt connect on 3C) edit: Edit: In fact, just now I tested it. You don't even have to be that low to do the cancel. It basically allows you to use J2C like Rachel's J2C which is pretty freaking awesome. except rachels j2c is pretty damn fast with wind and Carl's j2c is pretty slow. But regardless, more options. Did you test if theres recovery when you land? Theres recovery when I land from 214C but since 214C didn't really happen...
HunterSFL Posted December 8, 2008 Posted December 8, 2008 5C: Carl stabs the floor with another gadget of his. Hits low, decent startup and recovery. DIO likes to use this a lot for poking. Does this hit low? I thought I tested this, and it doesn't . Can someone test and confirm it? 2B: Carl "sweeps" the floor with his cape. Decent reach and speed but not safe on whiff. I think 5B is better. Just wanted to note, if feels to me like 2B is significantly faster then 5B, like 1/3 of the total time of 5B less. Also, I think 2B hits low, which if it does, is another good quality. 6A: Carl takes off his hat and hits at maybe a 80 degree angle on top of him. Has very little active frames and a small (forward) hitbox. So its good only when your opponent is above your head. Don't try it against people with long reaching jump-in's because you'll most likely lose. Wanted to note here that Carl doesn't take his hat off, his little robot thing takes it off 6B: Hits low, part of your basic combo. One of his farthest normals. At max distance, sometimes throwing this out will net you a CH against people trying to run in on you, then you can do 5c jb djbc. But don't throw it out too randomly, people who jump over it can definitely punish you. In pressure strings with opponent in between, using this will put carl closer to his opponent so the pressure is harder to escape, but it pushes guard gauge less than 5C so the choice is yours. You mention it on CH, but you should specify that on CH it pops up. 8D: Nirvana claps her hands in the air and creates a circular shockwave. 2 hit move. 1hit on the shockwave, 1 hit near her hands. Useful to end ground combos with if possible (eg, 623C 8D) since it is knockdown if it hits near the ground. When opponent is higher in the sky (2C8D loop), you want only the outer hit to hit, since that has a lot more stun time. While playing, a friend of mine and I discovered that this move seems to be unblockable in the air. He tried using Barrier as well, and still couldn't block it. At first, I thought maybe the shockwave that radiated out was just unblockable in general, but on the ground, it's blockable, so it seems to be only in the air.
Zeero Posted December 8, 2008 Posted December 8, 2008 will edit, tnx. so i've noticed a trend. A = little robot thing B = cape C = random gadget. D = big gadget (aka Nirvana) edit: i realized i said 5C hits low because someone said 2a+D 5b 5b 5c was unblockable... and i dont see where the unblockable part comes in unless its on 5C.
Mike Z Posted December 8, 2008 Posted December 8, 2008 You can't FD or throw-whiff cancel j.2C after it hits. You can do it before it comes out, but it doesn't even stop your jump arc. Also, you can loop j.Ax3, j.2C [bounce A, A, 2C] until you get to around 14 hits on standing Tager, at which point you can do bounce ABC land combo, but the pushback is huge.
magz Posted December 9, 2008 Posted December 9, 2008 edit: i realized i said 5C hits low because someone said 2a+D 5b 5b 5c was unblockable... and i dont see where the unblockable part comes in unless its on 5C. 2A+D>5A>5B>6B seems to lead into an unblockable setup using 2D. However, the positioning of the doll is somewhat problematic. asdf Edit: Unlike Rachel's j2c, Carl's allecan'd j2c doesn't seem to have much if any landing recovery. Will test more tomorrow... Edit 2: Updated combo listing... *Move Damage 41236D…1500 63214D…1500 2D…1000 6D…1200? 4D…2 Hits 950 623D…950 3D…650 Average Forward Throw…950 2A > 2B > 6B > 623C > 5B > JC > j.B > JC > j.C…1500 632146C 2500 *Carl-only Combos 5B > 6B > 623C > 5B > HJC > j.B > JC > Throw or j.BC [j.214C?] 2B > 3C > 2B > 2C > 236A > Vertical HJ > j.B > JC > j.B > j.214C (3C)┗IAD > j.2C AlleCan > 5C > JC > j.AB > j.BC [j.214C?] 6A (CH) > j.B > JC > j.BC > j.214C and/or 623D Forward Throw > j.2C Allecan > 2C > 236A～ Reverse Throw > 236A > 5C > JC～ Air Throw > 5C or 632146C or Air Throw *Nirvana Combos 2B > 22D > 3C> 236A > 2B > (2C>8D)xn Forward Throw + 22D > 236A > 2B > (2C>8D)xn Reverse Throw + 22D > 236A > [2B OR Move Nirvana Closer] > (2C>8D)xn Air throw > 41236D～ *Carl Enemy Nirvana (Sandwich Combos) [Dash or Walk Forward > 2A > 5A > 5B > 5C > 6D]xn [be sure to hold D before Nirvana deactivates if you want to loop properly.] [j.C > 5B > 5C > 6D]xn (See Above) Forward Throw > j.2C > (2C>8D)xn [Might need to allecan the j.2C] *Super Combos ~ 5C > 632146C [spacing/timing dependant.] ~ 3C > 623146C 2C > 214214D Ground Throw > 214214D > (2C>8D)xn Air Throw > 632146C Nirvana Throw (63214D) > 632146C > 214214D 5B > 5C > 236236D > 5C*N > 5B > j.B > JC > j.BC [214C]
axel Posted December 9, 2008 Posted December 9, 2008 i rant on my thread, and post useful info here, so its appropriate. I have to release my stress of using carl somewhere lol its kinda sad to see how people agree even in the carl thread tho lol I think DIO is the only one whos still using him I heard Ogawa is using Carl?
Cadenza Posted December 9, 2008 Posted December 9, 2008 I heard that as well and I believe it makes some sense.
Zeero Posted December 9, 2008 Posted December 9, 2008 I heard Ogawa TRIED using Carl and then quit because he realized Carl sucks. this makes more sense for a top tier abuser hey magz, quoted you on combos section... hope you don't mind. Trying to make 1 post with all information (hopefully will get quoted to first post?) and my bad for misreading at least now i know why i could never pull that unblockable off
Alternate275 Posted December 9, 2008 Author Posted December 9, 2008 I heard Ogawa was using Carl xD EDIT: Thanks for all that info btw!
Zoogstin Posted December 9, 2008 Posted December 9, 2008 Watch this vid. http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm5439295 The first Carl match near the end of the last round, Nirvana is actually healing before her gauge goes out. I thought the gauge stayed static. But if you don't use her for a bit she starts to heal herself. AWESOME!!!!!
squirrel Posted December 10, 2008 Posted December 10, 2008 That's great to know. But can Carl stay alive for that long with out his Nii-san? Does he have any way of stalling?
Alternate275 Posted December 10, 2008 Author Posted December 10, 2008 Nii-nii~!!!!! Yeah, it'd be nice if there was a way to develop an effective way of stalling
Zoogstin Posted December 10, 2008 Posted December 10, 2008 I was thinking the same thing. Sure you could just go and not use Nirvana for a bit and go solo but that's usually suicide. As Carl players we need to make sure our solo Carls' are on point if any of us plan to get good with him.
squirrel Posted December 10, 2008 Posted December 10, 2008 There has to be some kind of silly non-damaging combo magic that Carl can use purely to stall. Even blockstrings would be good. A question: does Nii-san lose her health if she's used to block a projectile? Say Jin's ice swords for example?
Zeero Posted December 10, 2008 Posted December 10, 2008 The funny thing is, i think nii san heals faster when shes dead than just not doing anything lol. but im not sure. I think she loses health blocking projectiles, but its still funny to see her block a whole noel super (then punch noel in the face). I didn't really check because all im thinking when i see projectile is "yes time to 'rush' nii san in!" In BB, its hard to stall because guard gauge gets crushed so easily. You can't even fd for too long coz then you'd get barrier break. Pick out hits (the C's) to FD to make it effective. keep jumping around so you don't get owned by ground strings, but remember to fd/ib on your way down incase of anti air, and break throws when you see them. This is what makes Carl stupidly hard to use against rushdown characters (like 7/10 of the cast or something) because his defensive measures are pretty limited. You can't even stall on the offense because carl's A's don't link to themselves so you cant do 2aaaaaaa all day. You can try rolling when your opponent is in the air and close to you, thats all i really can think of
faultydefense Posted December 10, 2008 Posted December 10, 2008 <3 Carl rolls, saving grace imo...thought not like he couldn't use some better specials... ps: nee-san/chan/etc is sister, nii-san is brother
Sigma Posted December 11, 2008 Posted December 11, 2008 The funny thing is, i think nii san heals faster when shes dead than just not doing anything lol. but im not sure. Yes, much faster. You might as well throw out something gauge consuming like 41236D when you only have a bit left and let it regen afterward. From what I've played, there's still a ton more untapped potential with Carl in terms of combos and pressure>summon possibilities. Seems way too early for people to be giving up on him already. As for getting rushed down, a quick teleport>4D seems like a good option that isn't really use all that often. Super armor startup, huge amount of active frames, with a huge untechable window on hit, what's not to like? Well, aside from all the damage Nirvana can take in that time, anyway. The knockback is a bit much, but you can pretty easily cancel it by jumping in at the right time. Rolls seem a bit underused seeing as you can cancel almost all of Carl's normals into them while preventing punishment with Nirvana. Seems to be key for proper positioning. Not enough 63214D use in my opinion either.
Zeero Posted December 11, 2008 Posted December 11, 2008 how do you do a teleport and 4D when you're getting rushed down?? When i get rushed down, i sit there and block, then whenever i see the opening, i'd jump and do 22d. Then i land again and block (as nirvana takes some hits sometimes). Of coz, meanwhile half my guard guage/barrier guage is gone. When nirvana can finally move, people are already the screen away Attacking with nirvana + carl is the only time i use roll, its not a good defensive tool unless you can give some ideas. Its not even good for when only Carl since the recovery is long enough to be punishable. 63214D is too slow in my opinion. unless they're trapped in your gear and you want to suprise them. Especially if it ends up whiffing, i lose my nee san for like 5 seconds at least. so unless theres some gimmicks to using it so that it'll hit for sure, i prefer not... so we need gimmicks!
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