[CT] Carl Clover Tactical Discussion/Questions/Help

[Shining Aquas]

Edit: ignore plz

NO, WE WON'T!!!

Carl does have untapped potential it's true, but then again so does a large majority of the roster. As much as I would love Carl to bloom, I can't see him going further than say B tier.

I mean, cmon does this guy have any really good wakeup options? You know, ones that can allow for a reversal? Also, what's with the damage he's taking? Isn't that a little close to ridiculous?

I ask this of the people here who play Carl: How do you deal with these major problems?

[Alternate275]

By unplugging the machine >.>

[Sigma]

how do you do a teleport and 4D when you're getting rushed down??

When i get rushed down, i sit there and block, then whenever i see the opening, i'd jump and do 22d. Then i land again and block (as nirvana takes some hits sometimes)

I said that in a bit of a misleading way, what I really mean is teleport and then 4D at the next oppertunity. :P Once Nirvana is in, it might be useful when jump out and 2C to buy some time. Haven't really tried it though.

Attacking with nirvana + carl is the only time i use roll, its not a good defensive tool unless you can give some ideas. Its not even good for when only Carl since the recovery is long enough to be punishable.

Yeah, I definitely agree with that. Like I said it should only really be used when Nirvana is there to prevent punishment.

63214D is too slow in my opinion. unless they're trapped in your gear and you want to suprise them. Especially if it ends up whiffing, i lose my nee san for like 5 seconds at least. so unless theres some gimmicks to using it so that it'll hit for sure, i prefer not... so we need gimmicks!

Nirvana's grab goes into effect as soon as it makes contact. I'm thinking it would be useful to try as part of 2A,5A,5B,5C,6D pressure where it's almost guaranteed or if you have them trapped in a corner, so not really something you'd just throw out or have the potential to whiff.

[Zoogstin]

Just a few things I've noticed from watching videos 1. 8D for some reason will still follow through even if Carl gets hit. I saw it during a Carl vs Jin match on nico. Carl initiates a 8D and they both jump in the air. Carl gets counter hit by jin and while Jin got off a few hits the 8D interrupted him and KO'd jin. Jin didn't hit Carl till late after 8D was activated but still. I was kind of like o.O Gotta find the vid. 2. Also watching videos I noticed that Carl can control Nirvana the very frame he techs off the ground after being knocked down. You may have seen a nico video where the opponent knocked Carl down. The opponent was just standing there waiting for Carl to get up. The same moment Carl got up he initiated Nirvana's 623D (long nail special) catching the opponent completely off guard and KO him/her for the win. My point is, quickly attacking with Nirvana as soon as Carl gets up is probably the best wakeup option we've got assuming Nirvana is even close enough. Again I need to find the video. 3. I could definitely see some throw setups with Nirvana's command through. Basically it would just be pressure string into Nirvana grab, but since that could potentially cause the opponent to be grabbed while in block stun, which means they can throw break it, I have one question. Is the opponent invulnerable during their throw break animation? I ask this because if you put them in a throw setup they either have to take Nirvana's throw or deal with Carl attacking them (or atleast do a mixup) during or after their throw break animation. Thoughts?

[Mike Z]

Carl can use Nirvana anytime he's not in hitstun/blockstun, I think I did a dead angle along with a Nirvana attack a few times. You are invincible during throw breaks until you can block - otherwise Bang's nail rain super would be hella broken.

[Zeero]

I said that in a bit of a misleading way, what I really mean is teleport and then 4D at the next oppertunity. :P Once Nirvana is in, it might be useful when jump out and 2C to buy some time. Haven't really tried it though.

the problem is, while 4D has super armor on the first hit, its like any other Nirvana move... if hit early enough (ie, when ur getting rushed down), its still going to deactivate Nirvana Which is why i don't really see the chance.

Im still unsure of using whiffed 2Cs to buy time... the recovery on that move on whiff is pretty horrible. I IADed over them and did 2C to land and trap with Nirvana and i actually got hit when i landed... I'll have to say its bad timing on my part because Nirvana isn't covering me, but its just an example of how bad the recovery on whiff is.

@Zoo, So from #1 its either

a) 8D's "ring" stays even when Nirvana stops (it'd make sense since its a sound wave? lol)

b) Nirvana's attack can't be stopped if Carl gets hit late enough...

Something tells me its a) just because its Carl

But seriously, i've seen Nirvana stop the arm drill pretty late (like almost end) when Carl blocked/got hit. so unless its a different property on each move, its just the 8D that has special treatment

Potential Matchup information:

If you're facing against Jin, when you arm drill and push nirvana and jin does the fireball (it goes under the arm and into Nirvana's body), it can actually hit both Carl and Nirvana

So i guess Nirvana's hitbox is actually a line or something, Carl's hitbox extends past Nirvana when you push it... which is kinda sad

[magz]

Nice Carl

This Carl player (Mekasue) uses preemptive 8D to catch his opponent if they try to jump back out of sandwich pressure.

3:45 I don't know if it's been noted before, but 5B is jump cancelable on block.

Interesting Note: The Noel player is an American Arcana Heart player.

Another Video Same Carl

3:45 Crossover j2c allecan'd comboing into 2b 5c.

[Zeero]

i think 5b is the only jump cancelable move on block... and probably 5a... I've tried jump cancelling 6b and 5c and 3c on block, and it didnt work. and i doubt it'll work off a 2a or 2b.

[Zoogstin]

@Zoo, So from #1 its either

a) 8D's "ring" stays even when Nirvana stops (it'd make sense since its a sound wave? lol)

b) Nirvana's attack can't be stopped if Carl gets hit late enough...

Something tells me its a) just because its Carl

But seriously, i've seen Nirvana stop the arm drill pretty late (like almost end) when Carl blocked/got hit. so unless its a different property on each move, its just the 8D that has special treatment

No it was definitely b. Nirvana hadn't even clapped her hands yet before Carl got hit. Jin definitely got KO'd by Nirvana's clap. Here's another video of of 8D not stopping when carl gets hit. Look at 6:18

http://d.hatena.ne.jp/video/niconico/sm5445353

I also noticed it for 623D as well. Check this vid out at 4:47

http://d.hatena.ne.jp/video/niconico/sm5445403

[magz]

DIO's Carl vs. Buppa's Jin

Interesting stuff concerning 8D throughout the video. 2 matches.

GUCCI's Noel vs. DIO's Carl

Beat count doesn't seem to affect techable time in terms of 2C 8D loop.

フィオ(タオカカ) ｖｓ ＤＩＯ(カルル)

[Zeero]

finally got to play some carl (and watch some vids) so i wanna say a couple of things. 1. j2c allecan is awesome. recovery is so fast i think you can instantly move affter it. Only problem is the hitbox is kind of small (think 1/3 of rachel's j2c in the middle) and it doesnt have any forward momentum so you can only use it in certain situations. But none the less an awesome options for us (and mekasue rapes with it). I didn't successfully combo after it because the recovery is so fast even i am shocked. but according to mags' vids, 2b 5c is the follow up. 2. I actually did the 2c 8d loop off a gear super today and was about to post (then i saw the vid lol.)I got 3 reps after the gear super and it wasnt techable. That means either its the 8D or 2C that can't be used more than 3 times in thembo...? 3. everytime you get knockdown and tech... summon is your best friend. As Zoogstin/Mike Z noted, you can use nirvana anytime you're not in block stun/hit stun. I was teching like this: 4(button) 22d. Basically what happens is i start my tech roll, by the time i stand up, nee san is behind me. Sometimes if possible, i'd jump and do 623D with nee san so if they jump after me/run after me, they get hit (unless they hit me first when im in the air). Of course most of the time i still can't do anything afterwards because im blocking they rushdown again, but at least i know nee san is nearby after a knockdown instead of the map away. Good find Zoog. 4. My new combo. 2a/5a 5b 6b 623C 22d [d] 5b 9b dj 9b 9c 623]d[ Basically the same thing except you add Nee san's 623D in your combo regardless of where nee san is (since you summon). Off a 2a, i think it did about 1.8k to Ragna, and off a 5a (or off just 5b, don't really remember) it did up to 2.7k on Ragna. Extra damage is always a blessing for Carl. But i just saw DIO's new combo with ja j2c jb dj c 214C... maybe i can incorporate both and do 623D when j214C hits? 5. When nee san is nearby (read, right beside you), a wakeup option is to do 236236D as a wakeup super. Carl will probably get hit, but nee san's startup is so fast (and super armor) that they'll probably get hit afterwards. The damage isnt too great (unless you have another 50% to do gear super), but its an option. 6. Whenever you burst hold D. I kept forgetting to do so and nee san just did her thing when many better options could have been available

[magz]

An escapable unblockable setup during sandwich pressure (best used during combo as a reset IMO): 2A > 5A > 3D > 5B(jc) > J2C(allecan) > 2B > 3C > 2B > 2C > 8d2c loop.

[Zeero]

Oh, also a tech trap? 2a 5a 5b 5c 6d 2a 5a 5b 6b 623C 8D 236B (basic loop combo shown on combo vid) after the 236B 2b [2c8d]x3. Not sure if its really a tech trap, but everybody who neutral teched immediately after 8d got hit last night for a big combo. People who didn't tech gets picked up by 2b into 2c 8d, but i think that doesnt knockdown. And i have a question about general gameplay. When you tech from the ground, if you do it immediately when you land is it always neutral tech?? I don't think i've seen people forward/back tech right when they've landed.

[Alternate275]

Another Video Same Carl

3:45 Crossover j2c allecan'd comboing into 2b 5c.

Wowww!!!! I like that combo he does with Nirvana's HandClap

The damage is NICE too =]

he Noel player is an American Arcana Heart player.

THAT WAS HEART NANA! =O

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Is it still too early to agree on Carl's BnB combos?

[Adelheid]

Well, there's... His unblock and loop are pretty set in stone, right? Right?

[Alternate275]

Well, there's... His unblock and loop are pretty set in stone, right? Right?

I would agree if my opinion counts.

But which loop? 8D loop or the Sandwhich loop?

An escapable unblockable setup during sandwich pressure (best used during combo as a reset IMO):

2A > 5A > 3D > 5B(jc) > J2C(allecan) > 2B > 3C > 2B > 2C > 8d2c loop.

What's "allecan"?

[magz]

In regards to Allegretto Canceling, this was taken straight off the J-BBS:

"低空で J2C>J214C(ｱﾚｸﾞﾚｯﾄ) をするとJ214Cが出る前に着地できる、通称アレキャン"

When doing low J2C>J214C(Allegretto), before J214C comes out, you can land. Nicknamed arekyan.

Edit: In fact, just now I tested it. You don't even have to be that low to do the cancel. It basically allows you to use J2C like Rachel's J2C which is pretty freaking awesome.

a s d f

[Zeero]

put it in lingo so today i did 5k on taokaka by doing throw -> 2b {2c8d}x3 2c 214214D. Wow. And it does seem like 8d and 623D stays even if carl is hit if late enough, but i cant get any other move to act the same way. I also tested 8D and it is also now confirmed to be air unblockable, so try to set that up as much as you can as it can lead to 2c8d loop. edit: 623C has whiffed on me in my B&B combo (2a 5b 6b 623C ~) in the corner like 10 times today. It doesnt actually have hitbox right in front of Carl, so keep that in mind to not get screwed over.

[Zoogstin]

Awesome things are looking up for Carl now as I expected. (He still may not end up being High tier though but who knows.)

[El Suave]

Wowww!!!! I like that combo he does with Nirvana's HandClap

The damage is NICE too =]

THAT WAS HEART NANA! =O

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Is it still too early to agree on Carl's BnB combos?

HeartNana lives in japan...

[squirrel]

Whoo...for a crappy character, Carl certainly looks good if the player can get a lead. I hope things look up for him, because it's such a shame for him to be incompetant.

[Zeero]

things are looking up. But in a offense oriented game like blazblue, i still think hes bottom because he really isnt that useful unless you get them in between Carl and Nirvana and doesnt have much escape/defense options. but definately better than before

[Alternate275]

Let's not stop here! Must keep advancing with Carl data =D

[magz]

まなかん(ライチ) ｖｓ ＤＩＯ(カルル) 2 matches

Brand new DIO video this time against Manakan's Litchi.

00:40 Aerial into 8D (possible loop followup)

00:48 Really cool combo utilizing 3C + Teleport IAD j2c OTG Allecan 2C 8D into possible loop

01:05 Possibly the best/safest way to move Nirvana (via air dash)

02:30 8D corner pressure escape trap

03:28 3C IAD j2c OTG Allecan 2C 8D Loop into Possible reset using 5C?

06:43 Random 8D shockwave into 2c8d loop into air throw attempt (easily techable though).

09:20 Combo into 623C + 2D into an untechable ground bounce with possible followup air combo.

Aporo Carl vs. Some Jin + Ragna and Litchi

Starts at around 3:30.

Not much interesting. The Jin doesn't put up a real fight. 8D jump trap was nice.

What I noticed moreso from this video is that 5C on hit has a ton of pushback and 6D can connect with it from quite a ways due to the hitstun.

Oh, and the burst into 8D at the very end before it got cut off could be useful.

Continuation of Last Match

00:57 6C at the end of Con Fuoco on hit to give more time for Nirvana to recover to allow for continued combo after Con Fuoco.

01:07 I was questioning it before, but it seems to be pretty popular to go for crossup IAD j2C (allecan?) after doing the 6D loop.

01:53 6a hit something! AMAZING!

01:55 6c after confuoco on hit into super to prevent burst. Missed 2D followup. 8D into 2c8d loop should work here too iirc.

04:40 j2c allecan into 5b 6b 623c.

05:20 Use of 214214D during 2c8d loop to prevent burst.

Last Part of Video

[Zeero]

for the DIO vs Manakan, at 9:45, it is also an unblockable into a possible 2c8d loop. blocked gear -> 2d 3c -> 2c8d loop