[UNIEL] Hyde

[Tatsuma]

So, here's the basic stuff I've been using:

 

Midscreen

• 5A/2A > 5B > 5C > 236A > 236A, 66C  > 214B > 4B > 4B, 41236C [100 EXS, 2874 Damage]
• 5A/2A > 5B > 3C > jc > j.A (2) > j.B > j.C, 2C > 5C > 214B > 4B > 4B, 41236C [100 EXS, 2911 Damage]
• 5B > 5C > 3C > j.A (2) > j.B > j.C, 2C > 236A > 236A, 66C > 214B > 4B > 4B, 41236C  [100 EXS, 3335 Damage]
• 5B > 5C > 214A > Delay 4A > Delay 4A, 3B > 236B > 236A, 66C > 214B > 4B > 4B, 41236C [100 EXS, 3476 Damage]
• 66C > Charged 5C > Charged j.C, 3B > 236B > 236A, 66C > 214B > 4B > 4B, 41236C [100 EXS, Around 3500 Damage]

 

Corner

• 5A/2A > 5B > 5C > 2C > B+C > 236A > 236A, 66C > 623A > 214C [1 GRD, 100 EXS, 3590 Damage]
• 5B > 5C > 3C > j.A (2) > j.B > j.C, 2C > B+C > 236A > 236A, 66C > 623A > 623C [1 GRD, 100 EXS, 4004 Damage]
• Throw > 236A > 236A, 66C >  214B > 4B > 4B [Meterless, 1910 Damage]
• Throw > 236A > 236A, 66C > 623A > 214C [100 EXS, 2582 Damage]

 

Those are the ones I'm most consistent with right now, All combos can be done meterless while retaining knockdown.

If anyone know any better but still easy routes, let me know! Focusing on not dropping my combos atm.

You can add 2C after the 3B in the 66C starter combo for a bit of extra damage.

 

" 5B > 5C > 3C > j.A (2) > j.B > j.C, 2C > 236A > 236A, 66C > 214B > 4B > 4B, 41236C  [100 EXS, 3335 Damage]"

If you get 5B starter, you can go 5B > 3C > Charge 5C > Charge jC > 3B > 2C > 236A > 236A > 66C > 214B > 4B > 4B > 41236C for 3527 damage. Execution barrier is kinda the same.

For corners, you can do Throw > 5C > B+D > 5B > 214B > 4B > 4B. Gives 2034. Adding a 5C after the 5B is possible but it's mean as hell, so just 5B it.

[Strife]

You can add 2C after the 3B in the 66C starter combo for a bit of extra damage.

 

" 5B > 5C > 3C > j.A (2) > j.B > j.C, 2C > 236A > 236A, 66C > 214B > 4B > 4B, 41236C  [100 EXS, 3335 Damage]"

If you get 5B starter, you can go 5B > 3C > Charge 5C > Charge jC > 3B > 2C > 236A > 236A > 66C > 214B > 4B > 4B > 41236C for 3527 damage. Execution barrier is kinda the same.

For corners, you can do Throw > 5C > B+D > 5B > 214B > 4B > 4B. Gives 2034. Adding a 5C after the 5B is possible but it's mean as hell, so just 5B it.

 

Oh nice, extra damage always helps, thanks!

I saw Rion using this throw combo over and over again in a video:

 

Throw, 236A > 236A, 2C > Charged 5C > 3C > 214B > 4B > 4B.

 

But I can't seem to hit the 2C most of the time. dunno if timing, position or both. 

[Tatsuma]

Anytime, man. I'll improvise whatever strings you throw out if you find some more.

That throw combo is dumb too, seems that it has something to do with the 2C itself, because I tried delaying the Orbiter and got the same results as I did when I did Orbiter after wallbounce. What's the damage on that?

[Strife]

 

Anytime, man. I'll improvise whatever strings you throw out if you find some more.

That throw combo is dumb too, seems that it has something to do with the 2C itself, because I tried delaying the Orbiter and got the same results as I did when I did Orbiter after wallbounce. What's the damage on that?

 

2060 with Vorpal. Not that much of a difference, but still maybe the highest damage we can get from it without using EXS.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Strife

[D.R.F.]

So how do you blockstring?

[Tatsuma]

2060 with Vorpal. Not that much of a difference, but still maybe the highest damage we can get from it without using EXS.

If you want to go this route you can go 3B > 2C (It's a bit easier this way), but you lose out on 30 points of damage. At that point, you're better off doing the B+D version. I can't seem to find what causes the 2C drop just yet...it has to be something with the Orbiter.

[Rhiya]

everything is minus because reverse beat exists

 

in a game with reverse beat, you need to worry about the frame advantage of things like 5C into whiffed 5a/2a, not just 5c by itself

 

in melty, almost no c/h moon charas have plus normals, but practically every f moon has a + or neutral jab -- it's because reverse beat is such a strong option

[D.R.F.]

But 2a is minus three, and 5a is the most minus jab i have ever seen in my life. At the end of the day its still shoddy pressure

[Dullyanna]

Typically you want w/e A normal to whiff after the prior blocked move for faster/more deceptive visual recovery. Or if it's going to be blocked ideally it has a fast animation so that even though it isn't + it isn't really reactable. If you're getting mashed after rebeat strings then you need to establish threat of a frame trap. Don't use up every threatening normal before ending on 2A, and don't overruse the same pressure string. MB style pressure doesn't work b/c people just do + on block shit all day, it works because of staggers and unpredictable string enders/resets.

 

Though in Hyde's case just get meter or GRD for EX fireball, EX air fireball after rekka and chain shift after w/e for them + frames.

[Zouf]

So here is some frame datas for you guys 

 

 

NB : Startup frames are from first frame to first active frame. Meaning the 10th frame of 5A is also the first active frame. Also, Hitstun includes the hitstop

NBB : I'll mine some more to complete all special moves later. It's a tedious job lol

NBBB : It would be nice to upload it on the wiki. cba to create and account there and stuff :P

[Tatsuma]

I completely forgot about reverse beat..

I'm gonna have to rethink my pressure strings. Thanks for reminding me.

[Rhiya]

But 2a is minus three, and 5a is the most minus jab i have ever seen in my life. At the end of the day its still shoddy pressure

 

Just because it's minus on block doesn't mean that whiffing it from a normal with more recovery and blockstun won't produce better frame advantage. Several characters in Melty can do exactly this (either C-VAki or C-Aki's 5C is - on normal hit, but chained into whiffed 5A, it's +1, iirc).

 

Also, it's not shoddy pressure, because your gatlings aren't limited. Think of it like this: your opponent is forced to respect a lot more options off a single button, because you -can- use a lot more options off one normal than P4, BB, GG, etc. The implications from a normal you can reverse beat off of are stronger than one you can't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP87GGrZSEE&feature=youtu.be&t=20m5s

 

Like, if you watch this match, you can see how strongly having reverse beat benefits players in terms of having options in pressure. Both players get to do largely unpredictable strings that could reset at most any time, and they get this option on top of any specials that are good at resetting pressure (VAkiha's flame pillars, or H-Len's multi-hit spikes).

[D.R.F.]

Just because it's minus on block doesn't mean that whiffing it from a normal with more recovery and blockstun won't produce better frame advantage. Several characters in Melty can do exactly this (either C-VAki or C-Aki's 5C is - on normal hit, but chained into whiffed 5A, it's +1, iirc).

Also, it's not shoddy pressure, because your gatlings aren't limited. Think of it like this: your opponent is forced to respect a lot more options off a single button, because you -can- use a lot more options off one normal than P4, BB, GG, etc. The implications from a normal you can reverse beat off of are stronger than one you can't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP87GGrZSEE&feature=youtu.be&t=20m5s

Like, if you watch this match, you can see how strongly having reverse beat benefits players in terms of having options in pressure. Both players get to do largely unpredictable strings that could reset at most any time, and they get this option on top of any specials that are good at resetting pressure (VAkiha's flame pillars, or H-Len's multi-hit spikes).

Yea your right, something to get used to.

[Solless]

So I have seen some combos linking 3B after his rekka attack.  How do you do this?  Usually by the time I've landed after finishing the rekka the 3B is so slow that it will not pick anyone up.

[dere]

You have to delay the rekka hits quite precisely and it's still a tight link afterwards. Also depends on starter and filler normals.

[Tatsuma]

So I have seen some combos linking 3B after his rekka attack. How do you do this? Usually by the time I've landed after finishing the rekka the 3B is so slow that it will not pick anyone up.

You have to delay the rekka somewhat.

[Tong]

Optimized combos

 

Midscreen

 

2AxN> 2B> 2C> 5[C]> j.B> j.C> j.6C> dash 5C> 214B*3, <Damage: 2226>

5B> 6B(1)> 5[C]> 214B*3> 2C/3B> 236B~236A> DC> 214B*3 <Damage: 3169>

5B> 2C> 5[C]> 214B*3> 2C/3B> 236B~236A> DC> 214B*3, <Damage: 3275>

3B> 5C> 214A*3> 3C> j.C> delay j.6C> dash j.A> j.B> j.C> 5B> 214B*3, <Damage: 3025>

DC> 2C> 214A*2> 3C> 214B*3> 3B> 236B~236A> DC> 214B*3, <Damage: 3177>

DC> 2C> 5[C]> 214B*3> 3B> 236B~236A> DC> 214B*3, <Damage: 3170>

DC> 3C> 5[C]> 214B*3> 2C> 236B~236A> DC> 214B*3, <Damage: 3191>

 

Corner

2AxN> 2C> 5[C]> FF> 236B~236A> DC> 214B*3, <Damage: 2573>

2A> 2C> 5[C]> FF> 236B~236A> 3B> 3C> 214B*3, <Damage: 3005>

5B> 6B(1)> 5[C]> FF> 214B*3> 3B> 2C> 236B~236A> 3C> 214B*3, <Damage: 3490>

j.236A> 214B*3> 5B> FF> 236B~236A> DC> 214B*3, <Damage: 3656>

Throw> 236B~236A> 2C> 5[C]> 3C> 214B*3, <Damage: 1876>

 

Metered combo finishers:

 

... ~236A> DC> 623A> 214C

... ~236A> DC> 623A> 623C, More damage but no hard knockdown

... ~236A> 2C> 5C> 3C> 623A> 214C or 623C, Corner variant

... ~236A> 2C> 5C> 623A> 236C> 5C> 623A> 214C or 623C, 200 Meter

 

Guess that pretty much sums up his best routes...

 

But I can't seem to hit the 2C most of the time. dunno if timing, position or both. 

 

Hit 2C as early as possible after the orb followup, they fall faster than it looks.

[VR-Raiden]

So here is some frame datas for you guys

Thanks, I notice the results we got for advantage differ by 1 frame. When I tested it was seeing what moves punished certain moves on block using a recording. So for example Hyde 5A on block, 6B punished it (9f) and 5B did not (10f), so I determined it to be -9 on block.

Not sure if old news but found that you can use 6B for a little kara throw. Gives you a tiny bit more range, example try on hit point blank 2A > 5A > wait > throw against Hyde. It whiffs if you don't do the kara throw. I try it with 5C and it doesn't work, maybe because that move is chargeable?

another example run in 2A > 2A > 2A > 6B~A+D, for a more realistic situation

EDIT: well, looking at it further, it doesn't really do anything that dash throw doesn't, but it's there I guess. 1 less directional input if anything.

[D.R.F.]

The Kara isn't really worth it, dashing is so fast and the throw is decent anyway. 22(A or B) series really bodies characters with less range than hyde, its a nice reset. It does kinda make me wish it was dash-cancellable

[VR-Raiden]

I don't get this part. It seems to indicate that 214A > 4A can crossup but I've been unable to get it to via recording. The only way they get hit is if they let go of the stick or press buttons (so not a crossup) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ibygy8qzmBA&t=3m48s

This is a translated version of the tutorial vid btw

[ipirate9]

Hey guys I have a question. Whats the difference between doing a real combo and an A auto combo? Is there any drawback to using the A auto combo? It seems kinda ridiculous that they put that into the game 

 

Add me on PSN newbs - OoPirate9

[Sashi]

DialACombo are pretty much always suboptimal and frequently drop 'cause they don't take into account a lot of variables. No one uses them except to reuse a normal in a string.

[ipirate9]

Cool, ya I started noticing that after a bit :P 

I cant seem to link 3B after a    2A > 5B > 5C > 6B [1] > jA > jB > jC   combo, the 3B ends up whiffing afterwards 

[Zouf]

I don't get this part. It seems to indicate that 214A > 4A can crossup but I've been unable to get it to via recording. The only way they get hit is if they let go of the stick or press buttons (so not a crossup) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ibygy8qzmBA&t=3m48s

This is a translated version of the tutorial vid btw

It's not a cross up. There is no cross up in this game.

 

They get hit because they want to punish hit.

[D.R.F.]

It's not a cross up. There is no cross up in this game.

They get hit because they want to punish hit.

That's where the cross up protection starts right?