Final Ultima Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 Fair enough. I was just saying that a precedent had been set for this sort of thing. If you can actually punish Jin for it even on connect, that's great. I'd advice you to go for 2C as a combo opener if at all possible, it's your go-to "good proration" starter in Continuum Shift. Even better if it counts as a Counter Hit.
Tarnish Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 You might get hit by a DP during this style of play and ask yourself "how could he conceive to DP me?" You've just been zerped if this happens. Accept it, move on with your life.
ryokoalways Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 It's not really a weird style, nor is it new. That is a very legit mixup game for Sol in GG. Not so much for Ragna (at least in CT) because damage off rc dp for ragna is poor, whereas Sol gets 50-60% and knockdown. Just one more clarification, in instances like these the dp is never a meaty as you want to provide frames for your opponent to do something. I think you may just have the idea slightly incorrect. Edit: Just some more information regarding this tactic. In GG, wake-up dp bait is legit for Sol also because GG has throw reversal, which is a good thing to bait for. Since it's 1F start-up, the best way to beat it is to either jump, or dp. When sol has 50% tension, this puts him in a much more intimidating manner. Also Sol's best way to dish out dmg is sidewinder loop, which requires a launch move, and dp is his best launcher. I wanted to mention this point because in BB there is nothing that fast which would require a dp to beat on their wake-up, so generally a frame-trap is just better in every way. Also, Ragna doesn't need to launch his opponent on the very first hit to start his combos, so that is also out of the question. If you are just baiting for pokes, then frame-trap with 5B or something. If you think they are going to reversal, dodge/block and 2C. Basically, it's probably not a worthwhile strategy simply because there are better options available.
Zero000 Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 fine. I'm doing a DP on their WAKEUP. And who said anything about DP RC combos. You have no need for that whatsoever. If it connects, do DP combo. If it's a 1 hit counter Dp, do the combo from that. If you noticed they blocked, RC.
ryokoalways Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 I know you are doing it on their wake-up. That what the whole situation was based around.
Zero000 Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 The point of this is to run at the opponent with the intent of doing some move on their wakeup, hence making the guy on the ground react to your run in with a DP or super or some sort. It can be really obvious when people are going to attack you as you wake up since they have that "offensive intent" instead of the safe oki approach. Let's take Guilty Gear, I don't really play the game much, but I know this much. If somebody is running at you and they are literally touching your body as you're waking up. Isn't your go to option mash throw since people will get thrown by the 0 frame whatever frame throws that GG has? So now you put this in consideration so you stay out of their throw range when you're doing oki. But then comes moves with throw invulnerability, doing moves with your dash momentum outside of your throw range, standing in throw range and jumping at the last minute, etc etc etc etc. Different setups you can do to avoid the wakeup throw. back to BB, somebody running right into your body, you know that they WANT to do an attack, you can just feel the DP B-), but all of a sudden your DP gets rejected. That's the idea here, a different way to "bait" their super/dp.
Spirit Juice Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 I would say that mix up is not worth the meter if the DP is blocked. You're better off blocking if you're baiting out a DP, but one gimmick that might work is DP RC run up 6B. By the way, only America mashes throw on wake up in GG.
ryokoalways Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 By the way, only America mashes throw on wake up in GG. Touche.
Zero000 Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 You're better off blocking if you're baiting out a DP, but one gimmick that might work is DP RC run up 6B. Done it. I dunno, I just do it against Super happy Hazamas since I noticed that they like doing that on wakeup, in blockstrings, whenever. It's a good super, i just feel confident that I can bait out their super by running into them without giving it away by doing a last second barrier block, since people can react to that.
Blue Ipod Nano Posted January 9, 2010 Posted January 9, 2010 No, I think it'll only work on characters with larger hitboxes. It will probably work on evryone in the corner though. Hmm, so it depends on character? because backthrow -> astral hits lambda Oh, and one more question, if you have two bursts, can you gold burst -> astral? does it work?
Zero000 Posted January 11, 2010 Posted January 11, 2010 Oh yeah. I forgot, I think they nerfed Ragna's kara throw by a tiny bit. I noticed that I wasn't going as far
Final Ultima Posted January 11, 2010 Posted January 11, 2010 Hmm, so it depends on character? because backthrow -> astral hits lambdaI think back throw into Black Onslaught is more reliable in general because if Final Sky is anything to go by, you have enough time to recover and then dash slightly as you do the command. No special canceling required.
Blue Ipod Nano Posted January 12, 2010 Posted January 12, 2010 Hmm, did some testing today, i think it maybe character specific. I did a forward throw and special canceled it right away into astral on lambda and i whiffed it, but when i did it to hakumen it worked. and in the corner it works on everyone i think. (tried it on tager ><)
redsilversnake Posted January 16, 2010 Posted January 16, 2010 I was watching some CS videos earlier and noticed a combo Kaqn used. 6B>5C>6C (2 hits) (DC)>5D (2 hits) (DC)>6A (HJC)>j.C>j.D (JC)>j.D>623D>236C>214D I tried to do it in training, but the dummy usually teched out before 6A, and even when I landed that, it always teched out before the first j.D. Am I doing something wrong or is the combo new to CS?
FlyingVe Posted January 16, 2010 Posted January 16, 2010 I think the combo is probably new to CS. In CS the 6A comes out a bit faster allowing you to relaunch off of things later in combos.
TITANIUM BEAST!!! Posted January 16, 2010 Posted January 16, 2010 It probably works in CS due to the way they changed untechable time in combos. That combo looks too long for a CT combo.
g0th1k4 Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 just a quick question can someone quickly explain the timing of the 5D, 22C ending of a combo after belial edge because i can't ever seem to get 22C out
TITANIUM BEAST!!! Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 just a quick question can someone quickly explain the timing of the 5D, 22C ending of a combo after belial edge because i can't ever seem to get 22C out Did you use 3C or 2D as a knockdown move at some point in the combo before you comboed into Belial Edge? Because unless you do that, you can't use 22C in the combo.
Zero000 Posted January 19, 2010 Posted January 19, 2010 just a quick question can someone quickly explain the timing of the 5D, 22C ending of a combo after belial edge because i can't ever seem to get 22C out Uh. Make sure you dash up for 5d so you can get close to land 22c. DO NOT mash 22c because you will cancel 5d (1 hit) and make 22c whiff. Just wait till both hits of 5d hit and press 22c. It's pretty lenient. If you want to, you can practice this in CT. Just move to the corner and do 3c 5d 22c.
g0th1k4 Posted January 19, 2010 Posted January 19, 2010 oh maybe thats y...i haven't used 3C or 2D at some point before i comboed belial edge... thx for that oh and i tried using the forward throw into astral in corner....it still doesn't combo unless its someone like hakumen or tager
lolo Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 does ragna regains a set amount of health after D moves? if he does how much does he regains? also devour by dakness has a set amount too? i havent seen any combo using devour u know like D loop to 5d dc 5d devour.. sorry for the ignorance. oh, and he still has 10k of hp right?
Final Ultima Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6501 That's what it's there for. Anything in the move list that's in bold is a change in Continuum Shift.
SuperKawaiiDesu Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 so like, anyone know if berial is safe? I IB'd it for punish but i traded 5B's <_< And also, fuck litchi and her ass jB that 6A 282141236C was SO SATISFYING TODAY :3 Do i need to SJI in CS?
-Ladon- Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 so like, anyone know if berial is safe? I IB'd it for punish but i traded 5B's <_< And also, fuck litchi and her ass jB that 6A 282141236C was SO SATISFYING TODAY :3 Do i need to SJI in CS? Berial has been listed as unsafe for quite a while now, however exact frame data would be nice, I've seen all the high level jp ragnas use it as a zoning tool so if it is unsafe I bet it's somewhere like -1 to -3 even on IB. BO is special cancelable now, no reason to SJI unless for some reason it doesn't cancel off a particular hit.
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