[CPEX] Tsubaki Yayoi Changes and Discussion

[chzchan]

Not alot of information or specifics.

 

This is why I am slowly dying.

 

I keep having dreams where I wake up in the afternoon and check on twitter to see a nice organized list of 2.0 Tsubaki changes like the Kagura changes on evernote. Then as I scroll down I see a bunch of things that I do not recognize listed under some title in moon that contains the letters OD. I open up a machine translator and ctrl+A > ctrl+C everything and then right as I am about to ctrl+V it into the translator my internet goes out and I wake up for real sweating.

[chzchan]

Anyone have some ideas as to what strings we are going to be using to deal with barrier after the 6C no more jump cancelling on block nerf that may or may not happen in 2.0 without spending charges? I've been practicing 2C/5B into j.B/j.C > j.D > Air Dash > etc. but I have been getting AA'd nonstop. What else can be used in place of 6C? 

[Monarch]

Am I the only one who's been taking advantage of 6C being special cancellable? I do stuff like 6C > 22B or 6C > 236A > 214D > 22D (on block of course). 6C > 421D is a nice frame trap too, 421A not so much because of its slow start-up.

[chzchan]

Oh but that doesn't work on defensive opponents that know your options. 236B/C and 214B leads to getting smacked with a jab if they block. 22B pushes you away and lets them get out for free. 236A leads to a chance to do YOLO 623C after they block it due to it only being -5 on block so long as they don't IB. I took advantage of 6C being special cancellable even before it was actually special cancellable. All you would need to do is do tiger knee inputs. I would rarely ever do those, though, especially in 1.0 because 6C > j.D > j.A was just absolutely amazing.

 

Is there going to be a way to continue pressure if the opponent uses barrier and isn't aggressive?

 

I wish 421D left you + on block.

[Monarch]

Oh but that doesn't work on defensive opponents that know your options. 236B/C and 214B leads to getting smacked with a jab if they block. 22B pushes you away and lets them get out for free. 236A leads to a chance to do YOLO 623C after they block it due to it only being -5 on block so long as they don't IB. I took advantage of 6C being special cancellable even before it was actually special cancellable. All you would need to do is do tiger knee inputs. I would rarely ever do those, though, especially in 1.0 because 6C > j.D > j.A was just absolutely amazing.

Is there going to be a way to continue pressure if the opponent uses barrier and isn't aggressive?

I wish 421D left you + on block.

Short answer, no. I mean, it's pretty much just going to be a go to gimmick for frame traps now that it can't be JC'd on block. If you hit them with it, great. If you didn't, well, at least you didn't get punished. A shame 6C > j.D got butchered in the patch but, guess we'll just have to make do. Oh, almost forgot, I do 6C > j.C > JC shenanigans, try and bait a DP after the jump cancel, or just do j.C > JC > j.C. I know it won't be useable after the patch, but enjoy it while you can, right?

[Airk]

Yeah; Short answer: No.

 

Longer answer: It's ALREADY "no", so what's the big deal?

[chzchan]

What I learned from fighting frost is that I rely way too much on people falling for gimmicks and screwing up when they are aggressive in my gameplan. Then there's also the fact that I suck and like to make the same mistakes multiple times per round.

But why is this in 2.0 changes?

[TeeJay]

What I learned from fighting frost is that I rely way too much on people falling for gimmicks and screwing up when they are aggressive in my gameplan. Then there's also the fact that I suck and like to make the same mistakes multiple times per round.

But why is this in 2.0 changes?

Rushing, I read the wrong discussion topic. >_> My bad. 

 

I guess there won't be much more loketests. 

[chzchan]

It's been sitting in the back of my head for a while, but of the types of knockdown that exist, what could have fully charged 22B been changed to if it doesn't slide. Will we get wallstick midscreen like Azrael's rekka? Will regular 22B cause the slide that we currently get?

[Airk]

It'd be awesome if they changed it to spin, but only if there were some way to get a grounded 22B max hit. :P

So yeah, hopefully some version of wallstick/wallbounce, but actually it doesn't really matter.

As long as it's a knockdown that lasts long enough, it doesn't really make a difference. The slide is functionally indistinguishable from an ordinary knockdown of the same length for purposes of corner combos, and probably actually LESS desirable than a normal knockdown of the same length for midscreen, I think?

[chzchan]

I'm hoping that it keeps slide in the corner or that at least some form of 22B has slide because it has its utility, mostly corner-carry and combo-wise. Something like Azrael's spinning knockback would be really really funny, but midscreen wallbounce would be absolutely amazing for maintaining pressure after ending a short combo on the ground.

 

Maybe if they gave it three levels. Uncharged would do what uncharged currently does. Slightly charged gives slide like fully charged does now. Fully charged does the midscreen wallbound but it has much much less untechable time compared to fully charged 22D.

[zaeris]

I'm hoping that it keeps slide in the corner or that at least some form of 22B has slide because it has its utility, mostly corner-carry and combo-wise. Something like Azrael's spinning knockback would be really really funny, but midscreen wallbounce would be absolutely amazing for maintaining pressure after ending a short combo on the ground.

 

Maybe if they gave it three levels. Uncharged would do what uncharged currently does. Slightly charged gives slide like fully charged does now. Fully charged does the midscreen wallbound but it has much much less untechable time compared to fully charged 22D.

well I don't think spining status on 22b works well with 22b mainly used on air borne opponent, just having the old 22x wall bounce on CH would be awesome. In the end I don't mind a non ground slide because it would just give some meaning to mid screen knock down.

btw? do you have a compliation of your gimmicks on word ^^,

[chzchan]

Oh boy a whole .3 seconds of 2.0 Tsubaki doing j.236D > j.214D after blocking Noel's j.D and eating one of her specials.

 

There's another really really small glimpse of what might possibly be her new OD 236236C over here. Only happens for even less than a fraction of a second, though.

[Mcgreag]

Some sort of change logs have been posted:

http://www.famitsu.com/matome/bbcp/ver2_6.html

For Tsubaki:

・C審技・閃ク壱ノ撃が当たると裏周りに、D審技・閃ク壱ノ撃はガードさせて有利
・D審剣・光ヲ断ツ剣がヒット時のみジャンプキャンセル可能（派生版は不可）
・派生版と通常版の必殺技を別技扱いに（同技補正が適用されない）

 

Think the first one is that 236C do cross over and 236D does not.

Second one is something about 214D being jump cancable on hit but only raw 214D not follow up versions

The last one I have no idea what it's supposed to say (I speak very little japanese, mostly using google translate here)

[Tokkan]

Some sort of change logs have been posted:

http://www.famitsu.com/matome/bbcp/ver2_6.html

For Tsubaki:

・C審技・閃ク壱ノ撃が当たると裏周りに、D審技・閃ク壱ノ撃はガードさせて有利

・D審剣・光ヲ断ツ剣がヒット時のみジャンプキャンセル可能（派生版は不可）

・派生版と通常版の必殺技を別技扱いに（同技補正が適用されない）

 

Think the first one is that 236C do cross over and 236D does not.

Second one is something about 214D being jump cancable on hit but only raw 214D not follow up versions

The last one I have no idea what it's supposed to say (I speak very little japanese, mostly using google translate here)

 

236C crosses over, 236D has advantage on guard.

214D jump-cancelable on hit (not on follow-up version)

Follow-up and Normal versions of special attacks count as separate moves (Same Move Proration does not appy).

[Mcgreag]

Not sure but by the looks of the video it seems that they reduced recovery of followup 214B. 236B 214B 5C worked. They must also have reduced the startup of 236C as 5BB 5CC 236C worked.

[Kiba]

Thanks guys.

 

I'm a little bothered about the 236D pushback, and that was just normal block. It's gonna be much worse on barrier block. It might be possible that you won't be able to do anything effective from that.

 

236C crumpling on hit seems interesting. 236D looks around +2 I think.

[Zouf]

Follow-up and Normal versions of special attacks count as separate moves (Same Move Proration does not appy).

OD and Mugen comboz :s

[Owner]

I hope there will be more changes once the arcades get the update on thursday

[chzchan]

Ha I was right. Well let's all hope that 236D has some kind of utility that they didn't showcase.

236C being able to happen without a crouching confirm is pretty huge, though. Now we don't need resources for side switch combos, but I am guessing there may be a subtlety to it.

214D being jump cancellable is strange, but it is something that was not posted by Tsubaki players that went to the location test.

All I'm getting out of that SMP change is that we'll be able to do use 214D twice in a combo and that FC starter 22D(max) will allow for a second 22D(max) so long as it is a followup which is pretty great because it is the only move that actually delivers 120% bonus proration as opposed to the regular 110% by every other move.

The lack of SMP on followups and raws literally kills my conventional corner reset, though. I guess I'll be able to use it out of 6A still with 236B SMPs. Oh well.

421D > 236D not crossing through makes me sad because it kills some gimmicks, but I guess that's alright. That is a shitton of pushback, though.

214B followup knocks the opponent much lower and max charge 22B looks like it happens a lot faster, unless that was not max charge of course. At least it looks like it did after that 236C. Maybe I was correct about there being 3 types of 22B now, uncharged, slightly charged, and fully charged. They may have been showing slightly charged there. That was not a lot of slide knockdown on the 22B, though.

WHOA j.236A > j.214A does knockdown. What will be the point of ending with j.214X now?

No more cross-though stagger recovery resets either. 236C doesn't cause long enough stagger recovery, though we don't know if 236D does or not.

I wonder if they reversed the air special ender properties. So like j.236A > j.214X gives knockdown while j.214X does the knockback. I wonder what that knockback looks like. What the j.236A > j.214A dealing knockdown means is that super lengthy combos will need to be slightly shortened so that the opponent isn't able to tech out of j.236A before j.214A hits because that does happen.

Raw 214B launches the opponent and causes them to spin instead of what it does now with them being launched straight upward and then falling down. Not sure exactly how this affects things yet. Will think about it.

I think we will be losing 6CC > 214B > 2C route because of this. Actually, that doesn't even matter because we already are losing the IAD jump loop.

214B raw along with causing spin launches slightly forward so 6CC > 214B will probably not cause a side switch anymore.

Just realized 236C ender is perfect for OTG blue combos punishing delayed tech. Lets all hope and pray that they made 2B faster.

[Airk]

Ugh, yeah, I'm kinda worried about that pushback.  Though I guess 236D is still a "safe" way to get in, since if it's blocked you're closer, anyway, and if it hits, yay?  I hope it doesn't get reduced to combo fodder though. 

 

I'm sure this is just a tiny fraction of the changes.

 

Also, holy crap, was that Hakumen getting 4.6k off of 2D? I don't care if it DID cost 5 stars, I am going to CRY.

[chzchan]

DID YOU NOT SEE 5D > YUKIKAZE

 

DID YOU NOT SEE 4C INSTA STARTUP

 

I am already crying.

[zaeris]

Time for some swag 214d 236b jcc 22d max charge combo lol, what other jump cancel cancel special can we look at? The smo stuff was probably for c dp and d dp sharing the same smp property or maybe I'm confusing it with something else probably expecting more dp loop combo I wouldn't mind old cs2 double dp combo.

So did arc went backwards over that j214d overhead

[Zouf]

She charges 20% faster in neutral

[BatousaiJ]

The removal of SMP on D and regular variations of moves is actually a pretty big deal and I will go on a limb and say that it will likely open up a whole new batch of combo paths and possibly increase her overall damage output in the long run.