Errol Posted May 5, 2015 Posted May 5, 2015 Some things J214A doesn't always leave you in command grab range, but it does if you do a typical double jump. otherwise, it also does if you delay your JCC. as in HJ>JC>delay>JCC. This reduces your frame advantage. I think that, in general, the higher you get the less frame advantage you have. What you can do off a bluebeat varies on what combo you just did. Obviously, just how much stuff you've done before it and what kind of starter it was. with a fairly short combo, you can do 2a>5C>2CC>JC>JCC>J214B. You get a massive amount of extra corner carry off this. Off other stuff, you can get 2a5C2C>236A>more if you want. To me, it's better if you can do it and get the air ender, without shortening your combo in any other way. e.g. off 5CC, you can do dp whiff> 5c>2c>214B>5C2CC>JCC>j214A>2A>5C2CC>JC>JCC>J214B, for something like 3700 damage and extra carry. off 5BB5CC, you have to shorten your combo, or you have to use a ground ender (which is okish). off a short starter, you can't really do anything. if 2A whiffs through an emergency tech, you have slight frame advantage - it would depend how you hit them with JCC. It might not be possible to punish a jumpout with 5c, only 5a, which is a downside (have to double check).
chzchan Posted May 5, 2015 Posted May 5, 2015 J214A doesn't always leave you in command grab range, but it does if you do a typical double jump. otherwise, it also does if you delay your JCC. as in HJ>JC>delay>JCC. This reduces your frame advantage. I think that, in general, the higher you get the less frame advantage you have. The changing of up of combo composition was a pretty obvious to me, but I should have noticed that things weren't always consistent with spacing. I was just looking at popular combo enders which are literally sj.C > dj.CC. should look into other things as well like random air confirms. It makes sense about the frame advantage, though. It is the same concept I was noticing around being able to follow up j.236D > j.214D where the lower you are relative to your opponent in the air, the easier it is to link 6C because you touch the ground way before your opponent does. I'm going to experiment with aerial positioning in combos to see if things change because I want to try and explain why I see Kuresu and Konan sometimes use j.B in air combos for seemingly no reason. This may be the cause.
chzchan Posted May 5, 2015 Posted May 5, 2015 Haha! You were right on it man. It all makes sense now. Got a great example to show ya. 5BB5CC > 623C > j.236A(dw) > 5C2CC > sj.C > dj.BC{C} > j.214A If you add in the j.B before the j.C, the opponent will be bumped up slightly and actually allow you to tap 5D when you hit the ground and still allow you to blue beat the opponent with 2A due to your frame advantage. Problem is that depending on the spacing in the air during conventional combo paths (usually stemming from inconsistencies during the j.236A(dw)), you will have to sometimes omit the j.CC or else j.214X will completely whiff. If you change the air combo composition a bit, you can get in some free charging and still pick people up who don't emergency tech. I wonder what else the extra frame advantage will allow her to do.
Daedron Posted May 5, 2015 Posted May 5, 2015 Was it known that 2C is now head invul from frame 8 till the END OF THE RECOVERY FRAMES? Seriously, this is amazing. Tager's j.2C, Azrael's j.2C, Ragna's Belial edge, all kinds of AA baits that involve delaying descend are useless in punishing Tsubaki for whiffing 2C now. You're completely safe as long as you don't go into 2CC or of course if the opponent uses a projectile property move from the air or can land and do a ground based move before the recovery ends.
BatousaiJ Posted May 5, 2015 Posted May 5, 2015 Woah, does that mean we can stop getting wrecked by Hakumen j.2C and Valk's air stomp of DOOM?! That's excellent news. It should also help to wing people's bad habit of autopiloting into 2CC instead of throwing out only 2C to hitconfirm properly.
chzchan Posted May 5, 2015 Posted May 5, 2015 Was it known that 2C is now head invul from frame 8 till the END OF THE RECOVERY FRAMES? Seriously, this is amazing. Tager's j.2C, Azrael's j.2C, Ragna's Belial edge, all kinds of AA baits that involve delaying descend are useless in punishing Tsubaki for whiffing 2C now. You're completely safe as long as you don't go into 2CC or of course if the opponent uses a projectile property move from the air or can land and do a ground based move before the recovery ends. Hooooooolllyy shiiit. Time to get rid of my 2CC autopilot habit. This is some good stuff. Man I hope more secret stuff like this is out there hidden in her data.
Daedron Posted May 5, 2015 Posted May 5, 2015 2CC was already shit but it honestly became even more shit now because of this. Basically you should NEVER throw it out anymore unless you hit with 2C.
Airk Posted May 5, 2015 Posted May 5, 2015 Wow. That is super awesome if true. Nice to get an honest buff.
Daedron Posted May 5, 2015 Posted May 5, 2015 It's true: http://streamable.com/8sog It looks funny as hell too. Tsubaki is unphased by a 9foot robot falling on her :V
BatousaiJ Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 Ran some tests with the 2C head invulnerability in the lab a bit and it's quite useful. Our 2C take a while to wind up meaning often times we have to use it preemptively(doing it on reaction is too slow in many cases) in order to catch IAD attacks and when you make a bad call, you would normally get hit with the j.X attack in crouching state which would usually end up in a high damage punish combo. Now you either 2C and whiff early in which case you can just not 2CC and then block and after the j.X attack whiffs, you'll have enough time to block most follow up hits. From what I tested on sample combos like Ragna's IAD j.C > 5B > 5C or Hakumen's IAD j.2C scenarios, trying to mash buttons to hit them after recovering from 2C active frames did not end well so it's probably best to just block unless you know for sure that their j.X attack has a lot of recovery on whiff. There are some moves you can punish like Tager's j.2C like Dae's video showed or Makoto's j.2C after whiff but in most cases, it's more of a safety than what you should normally aim for since just anti airing will yield better overall results. If you have a habit of 2CC autopiloting, now's the time to stop~
chzchan Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 Just came back from weekly thing on campus and I decided to 2C the falling elbow for the first time without feeling afraid in a long set with a local Tager. It just worked so consistently and I did it every time. So happy about this buff. I went for a 5C every time after the elbow would go right through me and I'd get a nice juicy combo with the charges I'd get for free in neutral in the matchup. Still have trouble in the matchup because I am bad, but this 2C thing is a godsend.
Shigekazu Posted May 7, 2015 Posted May 7, 2015 Did Tsubaki become terrible again, or is it just that she changed abit? Sorry I was gone A LONG TIME.
Airk Posted May 7, 2015 Posted May 7, 2015 Did Tsubaki become terrible again, or is it just that she changed abit? Sorry I was gone A LONG TIME. What do you mean "terrible again"? That implies that at some point she stopped. ;P But no, she's basically just changed around again. All her usual flaws are still there, and are dumb, but she ..uh...does a lot of damage now? Which means that at low-mid levels she's pretty good. At high levels, I think you need to be way better than your opponent to win, still.
Zouf Posted May 7, 2015 Posted May 7, 2015 No she's good, but she has some pretty bad matchups i think (basically against heavy zoners like Nu or characters with a godlike neutral like Jin) She still has her godlike DP so she can manage.
chzchan Posted May 7, 2015 Posted May 7, 2015 She's better. I'd say she got a huge damage buff, but on average almost every character had a damage boost. I'd say that instead of having below average damage and then average damage with charges like in 1.1, she has average damage and above average damage with charges. Some of the best buffs that aren't damage are her 5D/2D having charge rate acceleration, her 2A having OTG properties, her 236C having cross-through attribute, and her 2C having head invuln that lasts until the end of 2C's recovery. Her bad matchups are still bad for the same reasons and I don't think any of her matchups got significantly better.
Shigekazu Posted May 7, 2015 Posted May 7, 2015 Oh so she did get a bit better. And 2.C being head invuln means that ragna silly j.c wont be a problem as much anymore. At least the damage issue has been taken care of. I see her neutral game still needs improvement, but that fine.
chzchan Posted May 7, 2015 Posted May 7, 2015 Her neutral will always be sort of awful because of her terrible terrible hitboxes. Her mixup is the same, but it is still ridiculously easy to get out of her pressure without having to take any risks by tapping barrier and jumping. The fear of taking damage sort of kind of helps make her pressure scarier but eh.
Airk Posted May 7, 2015 Posted May 7, 2015 Her neutral will always be sort of awful because of her terrible terrible hitboxes. Her mixup is the same, but it is still ridiculously easy to get out of her pressure without having to take any risks by tapping barrier and jumping. The fear of taking damage sort of kind of helps make her pressure scarier but eh. I hate this kind of talk; No, her neutral will not always be awful because of her hitboxes...because hitboxes change every game. Tsubaki's normals are just a few frame data tweaks and hitbox adjustments away from being strong. Too bad they don't think we need that.
Errol Posted May 7, 2015 Posted May 7, 2015 I agree. this character would improve a lot by making some adjustments like, 2b 13f->9f, 6a 26f->24f.
Errol Posted May 7, 2015 Posted May 7, 2015 Unrelated, but I find it really annoying doing IAD JC (counter) > 5C>2C>214B and having it whiff. I'm really not a fan of JBJCC combos. I guess this calls for 5C>2C>delay 623C... I don't really like that either though. I am finding , by the way, aiming for blue beat combos where I know I can get a good ender off them, to be very helpful. You naturally end up using a mix of just normal enders and these, so the result turns out pretty good. A mix of good extra damage/carry, and neutral techs which you can have fun with.
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