Dreiko Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 These things are all posted in the specific Video thread (this thread here is the discussion thread). End pressure in 236K as that move is +2 on block.
Zypha101 Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 oh well that was a waste of my first post on here. I assumed as much on the 236k, just seeing if there were other options. Also any thoughts on his jump install 214 P/K and exactly what motion is done for it as in before the input type, during it etc
Robawtninja Posted January 9, 2015 Posted January 9, 2015 End most pressure in 236K since it's +2 and leaves you close. Mixup the string ender with 214 P/K after you condition them with 236K.
SynikaL Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 How does Sin open someone up? What does he want to do with a knockdown? Is it a fear of throw, a la older versions of Ky, with CH pressure?
NagorbMan Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 From my experience, it requires a lot of conditioning. 236 K 5S 236 K etc is the safest, and catches most people pressing buttons. Once they stop pressing buttons, you can change it up with 214 S or 214 K to catch people holding downback or trying to jump. All of those options get beaten by different things, but the idea is that the opponent can't take everything into account. If you have meter to spend you can bull bash yrc if you sniff something wrong. If you're close you can use 2p j.D or 2p 2k mix up. There's also meaty hawk baker for a low damage low risk Oki.
Dreiko Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 How does Sin open someone up? What does he want to do with a knockdown? Is it a fear of throw, a la older versions of Ky, with CH pressure? You mainly go through their stuff with your stuff through outplaying them (for example, 236King under a stunedge) or outspacing them. 6P antiair confirms and random max range 5S pokes into rc confirms are your main source of initial-knockdown. Then you get to do jH fuzzies and runup jD stuff.
Villainous Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 Yeah you pretty much just want to bully them into submission . If they don't respect frames and buttons you can just poke them to death into confirms. If they get too respectful you can jack their guard bar and go for a juicy combo off throw or j.H j.D mixups. Sin really isn't a mixup character for the most part. More of a neutral / pressure monster. Won a tournament with him this weekend, had the most trouble against May and just trying to pin down her ridiculously fast jump, but I'm thinking that's more matchup inexperience than it being hard for Sin. I do know his 6P is good to throw out against her since it beats dolphins and catches jump outs though. One thing that confused me was her jump being so fast she can actually upback out of j.H j.D before the j.D hits -_-. Anyone have any experience against her?
Dreiko Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 236H stuffs all of her approaches really. Just beware of the 3K and you're fine. She has no DP so you don't even need to be all that respectful with her before she gains meter.
Chewie891 Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 Here is a nice 60 percent combo no meter off 5 k. The character has to be standing
Chewie891 Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 I wish sin had some 50 50 setups. It would help him in a lot of match ups
NagorbMan Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 He has one goofy one, which is meaty 2p into 2k/2d or j.D voltec Dein. Of course you'd have to be pretty close for it to work, and condition your opponent not to try to dp or poke you.
Robawtninja Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 I wish sin had some 50 50 setups. It would help him in a lot of match ups He does have 50/50s and they're just the universal oki jump ins. On wake up, jump in and either fall with j.S or land with 2K or delay air dash j.S > j.K. Better than a 50/50 technically.
Sigcius Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 For those who pokes/zone with 236H, if it hit CH with only the second hit (which means from a certain distance onward) causing the opponent to wallbounce, it seems to be possible to 214P(6) > j.S > j.6H > 5S > 5H... Works against all characters except for Elphet (don't have Leo to test though). And Faust's air hitbox make it so that you need to omit 5S going straight from j.6H > 5H. It might not see much use, but since 236H (CH) is pretty easy to hit confirm and to see whether the opponent's going to fly/wallbounce or not, well, it doesn't hurt to know. And it's more reliable than 236H(CH-wallbounce) > 236236P >... BTW, for characters like Potemkin and Bedman which can be hard to 623S (crit) > 214P/K > j.6H, doing 214P/K > j.S > j.6H seems to solve the problem.
Villainous Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 So if you get their guard bar jacked enough to get 3x counter hits, off throw you can combo for free in the corner. Just do throw > 5P 5H 6H JC into IAD j.K loops. Definitely good to threaten with if your opponent is content to sit on down back forever against Sin. Also works off airthrow in the corner. You can do airthow > CH 236H into combos for like 60%.
Flick Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 He does have 50/50s and they're just the universal oki jump ins. On wake up, jump in and either fall with j.S or land with 2K or delay air dash j.S > j.K. Better than a 50/50 technically. I don't think it's a 50/50, of course it can't be better than 50/50 technically. Proper fuzzy guard can deal with it. The delay airdash j.S/2K is technically a 50/50, but they're quite reactable
Chewie891 Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 I think voltic deign Is a useful tool to setup a 50/50. Especially when you put them in the corner they to block it or jump out.
Robawtninja Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 I don't think it's a 50/50, of course it can't be better than 50/50 technically. Proper fuzzy guard can deal with it. The delay airdash j.S/2K is technically a 50/50, but they're quite reactable Well if you're talking about true 50/50s then Voltec Dein setups are really the only ones besides Bull Bash RC IAD overhead/dash low. And the oki setup I mentioned are good enough to be considered 50/50. The delay airdash is not only designed for feinting lows but also for those who grab when you land for the low. They cover a good amount of options and leave you advantageous. Sure they aren't ambiguous or extremely fast or anything but it's still forcing the opponent to react/guess to the mixup. So if you get their guard bar jacked enough to get 3x counter hits, off throw you can combo for free in the corner. Just do throw > 5P 5H 6H JC into IAD j.K loops. Definitely good to threaten with if your opponent is content to sit on down back forever against Sin. Also works off airthrow in the corner. You can do airthow > CH 236H into combos for like 60%. Actually if you get CH throw in the corner you can go straight into 623S > 214S > etc. Does a ton of damage and would probably be the go to combo for CH throws if you have the calories for it. If not then go into IAD j.K loops. You can even land a 5S after the throw too. I've only tested it on Faust and Millia though but seems like it should work on everyone else.
chzchan Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 What should I be doing if people like to mash 2P/K after they instant block 236K? Should I continue to blow meter and go into 236H to try and maintain pressure or frame trap them by delaying it or what? Usually get stuck here. I feel like I end up burning a lot of food that I usually don't get back by using it to stay on people, especially people that I fight often enough for them to learn to just IB 236K and out mash me after 214S stops working as a mix up. Seems like I am never in range for grabs to work effectively either unless I blow a ton of both food and tension. People also don't like to sit down and block against Sin but I saw that brought up in an earlier post. 236K > 5S > etc. stopped working a long long time ago as a means to keep on the opponent. Then there's trying to go in with a hop after the 236K which always always gets me 6P'd because it sends Sin in at the absolute perfect angle to get AA'd. Is there a good way to bait AAs after a command hop without having to jump install and still be in a range where you can take advantage of the whiffed AA? Should I be using j.D to pause myself or something? What is his air to air game like? Should I even try to approach people in the air if they are flying around and pressing buttons or just be patient and wait for an opportunity to land 6P and never actually get a combo out of it because c.S whiffs 75% of the time. Still don't have a really solid gameplan with him yet and I feel like I keep myself grounded much too often in neutral. Even after watching matchup videos I don't quite understand how Sin can even keep people blocking and still have enough food meter to do damaging combos if he even opens them up. Probably just doing something wrong and complaining about things that there are already answers for, though. Sorry if I am.
Chewie891 Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 actually with you get a really good combo off of 6P. His air to air is okay not great. I feel like i get beat out of good amount of air to air. I just go for air throw. Where I am having trouble is when i put them in the corner what other options can I do other the obvious 236k.
chzchan Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 actually with you get a really good combo off of 6P. His air to air is okay not great. I feel like i get beat out of good amount of air to air. I just go for air throw. Where I am having trouble is when i put them in the corner what other options can I do other the obvious 236k. Not saying that the combo off of 6P isn't great. In fact, Sin's 6P is a pretty great move. Consistently hitting the c.S is where I am having problems. It just doesn't connect very often. If I know that the c.S will whiff based on the height I usually try to go for 236H, but even that whiffs fairly often.
iBeK3n Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Have you guys tried using j.P and j.6HS for Air To Air? They're amazing! j.P beats A LOT of moves. It beats Ky's j.K (a.k.a the j.K God) clean. You just have to use it to believe me. Coming from Order Sol, I can guarantee you it's amazing. j.6HS has enormous horizontal range and is very good to use when you anticipate an obvious air approach. And trust me, you'll get CHs more than you can imagine.
chzchan Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 I guess I can try to use j.P since I can probably more consistently confirm off of it than trying to just sit back and attempt an AA on someone who just jumps nonstop. Not too sure about j.6H though because it is pretty slow. I still question if I should even be putting myself in the air unless I get a knockdown.
Tofma Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 I saw bleed use it while jumping backwards. When the opponent jumped or did an iad and ate it the vacuum allowed him to do c.5S into whatever.
Chewie891 Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Not saying that the combo off of 6P isn't great. In fact, Sin's 6P is a pretty great move. Consistently hitting the c.S is where I am having problems. It just doesn't connect very often. If I know that the c.S will whiff based on the height I usually try to go for 236H, but even that whiffs fairly often. dont go for crouch s. Do 6P stand S st HS forward HS jump cancel S forward HS 234 S 236 HS
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