[Xrd] Tier Discussion

[lili]

you said that grapplers always have a disadvantage in these type of games, and we said that it was not true. <.<

Well, that is the way I see it. They are slow and have hard inputs to complete in the heat of battle. Not a position I would want to be in if I can pick up a faster character which I'm a loyalist so tier charts mean nothing to me but I'm basing my logic off of the general population that wants to win lol. As I said though I'm bad at anime fighters so forgive me if I sound ignorant...

Sent from the Swagmobile using The iPhone 5,000xyz. Haters gonna hate.

[lili]

Not sure how you managed to construe that. You said that grapplers are at an inherent disadvantage due to pacing/not being as mobile. AC Pot in particular showed that wasn't the case, as the most significant hindrances to him were two of the greatest sources of bullshit in the game. Not having a large amount of mobility isn't a significant disadvantage if your kit allows you to play around that. I don't see Xrd Pot as being "bad". He might be ranked as the statistical worst character in the game, but that doesn't matter much when you have a stretch of rankings only going from S-B.

I misunderstood your post. Sorry. I agree.

Sent from the Swagmobile using The iPhone 5,000xyz. Haters gonna hate.

[Henaki]

potemkin is bad, but hes not terrible, he has a lot of gimmicks and hes pretty stable when he gets in, i just think arcsystems overestimated the power he got from YRC (he might actually have gotten the most out of the mechanic).  and understimated the power of characters like faust, ram and elph

 

the zato matchup is about what i expected and honestly the rest of pots matchups arent horrible.

[lili]

potemkin is bad, but hes not terrible, he has a lot of gimmicks and hes pretty stable when he gets in, i just think arcsystems overestimated the power he got from YRC (he might actually have gotten the most out of the mechanic).  and understimated the power of characters like faust, ram and elph

 

the zato matchup is about what i expected and honestly the rest of pots matchups arent horrible.

 

I played against a Potemkin with Ram and felt bad...

[king of heart]

potemkin is bad, but hes not terrible, he has a lot of gimmicks and hes pretty stable when he gets in, i just think arcsystems overestimated the power he got from YRC (he might actually have gotten the most out of the mechanic). and understimated the power of characters like faust, ram and elph

the zato matchup is about what i expected and honestly the rest of pots matchups arent horrible.

I see Axl being Pot's worst match up.

Worse than Ram and Zato IMO.

[lili]

Axl is a bastard.

[madigawadesperate]

I honestly feel that slayer and pot are really bad in this game. Whenever i'm playing I-no it doesn't matter the skill level, i always feel like it's a free win. 

Axl, i have no fucking idea where people went off that he's low tier. The man makes me want to pull my hair out sometimes. 

[Angry Guy of DE]

I can't speak for Potemkin but Slayer lost a couple of tools in this version.

I can't recall what gatling options were removed but most of Slayer's moves only have two or three gatling options at best so he is heavily reliant on some frame traps that can be disrespected or unusable in some match-ups.

His unblockable attack Undertow is pretty garbage because it doesn't lead into anything meterless and it's animation just begs for people to mash against it.  A far cry from the armored version in +R.

His 6HS can fail to catch people in the air despite them passing through his foot during the animation.

Damage-wise Slayer is pretty good with confirms as any 236 P/K can be YRC for at least 35-40%.

Mappa Hunch feint would help his mixups since Mappa Hunch is only slightly minus and people expect to block it (or IB) and expect the backdash afterwards.
 

[D.R.F.]

I can't speak for Potemkin but Slayer lost a couple of tools in this version.

I can't recall what gatling options were removed but most of Slayer's moves only have two or three gatling options at best so he is heavily reliant on some frame traps that can be disrespected or unusable in some match-ups.

His unblockable attack Undertow is pretty garbage because it doesn't lead into anything meterless and it's animation just begs for people to mash against it. A far cry from the armored version in +R.

His 6HS can fail to catch people in the air despite them passing through his foot during the animation.

Damage-wise Slayer is pretty good with confirms as any 236 P/K can be YRC for at least 35-40%.

Mappa Hunch feint would help his mixups since Mappa Hunch is only slightly minus and people expect to block it (or IB) and expect the backdash afterwards.

Well you talk about feint, but yrc pretty much makes every move like that a feint- Sol's fafnir, Pot's Hammer Fall, really ANY forward moving attack. So by removing the actual feint on mappa and I think 5D (among other moves), Slayer instead was given poorer, more obvious feints by the system mechanics of the game. Which leads to less people getting tricked, and more damage being scaled down because of proration from roman cancels.

[DaiAndOh]

I honestly feel that slayer and pot are really bad in this game. Whenever i'm playing I-no it doesn't matter the skill level, i always feel like it's a free win. 

Axl, i have no fucking idea where people went off that he's low tier. The man makes me want to pull my hair out sometimes. 

 

You're treating from the prospective of your skill level and matchups. Axl isn't good but he's always done well against I-No. And I-No destroys Potemkin in this game.

[Sytha]

Potemkin has been high tier before a couple times. He does fine in a lot of games. He was high tier in slash and the only character with a good match up on Slash Ky. And he was borderline top tier for much of AC's lifespan. Plus he was like mid-ish tier in #R. Do not lump Potemkin in with other Arc System works big slow characters. He has a much better track record.

 

As for Xrd. I think the biggest Slayer nerf was actually making the game widescreen. Makes it easier to zone Slayer. Moves like Pilebunker and DoT just seem stubby now. Also I kinda think it's lame how he lost the raw It's Late and has to do it as a follow up to under pressure.

[StylisH]

Yea, once someone gets hood enough they feel it. I didnt realize how strong I-No's neutral was until chemical love yrc and that stuff. So now when ppl talk about "oh she sucks" just laugh

I tried to tell em boss, but they wouldn't listen.......I remembered saying she has to be respected even from full screen, and people laughed it off. I wonder if they still are now. Idk about top tier like I keep hearing, but she is damn good this time around. Too bad she's not execution heavy as she was previously.....

[D.R.F.]

I defintely see where she can be seen as strong. And from what I heard some combo routes are pretty tough still, like IAD j.K.

[Gemakai]

Slayer losing Mappa Feint is definitely one of the more painful things. I still think he's strong, just not as before. I feel most lists are relatively accurate, but ultimately most to all characters have the capability of winning, though Pot seems to have the most trouble depending on the matchup.

[StylisH]

I defintely see where she can be seen as striiong. And from what I heard some combo routes are pretty tough still, like IAD j.K.

She isn't braindead by any means, but compared to previous games, it's not even close. CL input change FTL.

Also, Pot seems to have the same problems as he had before in opponents: high mobility, ranged normals/projectiles, fuzzies, etc. He is weaker than in AC for sure, but the game is still too young to count him out just yet.

[Destin]

I don't think anyone is "counting him out".

I think in general, the gg crowd has a much more balanced and realistic look on how fighting games characters and tiers are.

[Gemakai]

She isn't braindead by any means, but compared to previous games, it's not even close. CL input change FTL.

 

Maybe it's just me, but I rather like the input change to CL. Why should it be more difficult?

 

Also, Pot seems to have the same problems as he had before in opponents: high mobility, ranged normals/projectiles, fuzzies, etc. He is weaker than in AC for sure, but the game is still too young to count him out just yet.

 

Pot is still pretty strong, I feel. He just requires more work.

[madigawadesperate]

You're treating from the prospective of your skill level and matchups. Axl isn't good but he's always done well against I-No. And I-No destroys Potemkin in this game.

 

While yes, i am new i can pick up on a game rather quick. I fail to see how someone who can basically do whatever he wants from anywhere on the screen, has a reliable dp and two parries to be a bad character.

 

Also if potemkin doesnt have a single tool to stop a character from simply rushing in, thats really bad. Hes a grappler you DONT want to be in his face and ive seen everyone here rush him down stupid

[StylisH]

I don't think anyone is "counting him out".

I think in general, the gg crowd has a much more balanced and realistic look on how fighting games characters and tiers are.

 

Which is good.  It just seemed like there were people that thought he might have been a bit lacking compared to former iterations.  

 

Maybe it's just me, but I rather like the input change to CL. Why should it be more difficult?

 

 

Pot is still pretty strong, I feel. He just requires more work.

 

CL input changes to me are just a matter of preferences.  I just liked the satisfaction of pulling off difficult combos/confirms.  Tomato, tomahto......

[D.R.F.]

While yes, i am new i can pick up on a game rather quick. I fail to see how someone who can basically do whatever he wants from anywhere on the screen, has a reliable dp and two parries to be a bad character.

Also if potemkin doesnt have a single tool to stop a character from simply rushing in, thats really bad. Hes a grappler you DONT want to be in his face and ive seen everyone here rush him down stupid

Well that's mind games. Of course you don't grapplers to be on your ass when they are on offense. Hell, be careful about what moves you throw, cuz that can = Pot Buster.

However, if a character can stage a strong offense that the grappler can not challenge, then why not go the fuck in? That is risk that can be worth the reward. So to me, it is more of a two-way street when you think of it that way.

[StylisH]

IIRC, there have been a few characters in previous games who could rush Pot down pretty easily:  Dizzy, I-No, etc

[Ryd']

While yes, i am new i can pick up on a game rather quick. I fail to see how someone who can basically do whatever he wants from anywhere on the screen, has a reliable dp and two parries to be a bad character.

 

Also if potemkin doesnt have a single tool to stop a character from simply rushing in, thats really bad. Hes a grappler you DONT want to be in his face and ive seen everyone here rush him down stupid

 

No tools to stop people from rushing him down.

 

Pot is not helpless.  Some matchups are harder than others (I-No...), but it's like that for everyone.

[Kikuichimonji]

Also if potemkin doesnt have a single tool to stop a character from simply rushing in, thats really bad. Hes a grappler you DONT want to be in his face and ive seen everyone here rush him down stupid

Potemkin is not easy to rush down. He has a fast command grab with invincibility, a safe on block move that makes him low invulnerable, a move with armor, a super that covers the whole air space, an actual uppercut, a move that will always counter projectiles and gives him the best projectile in the game, a backdash that literally can only be punished on a single frame, and probably the best priority 6P in the game. Potemkin has always made up for his terrible movement with super broken moves like unblockable Slidehead. He's probably the best character in the game at punishing offense. He's weaker in this game because he doesn't do enough damage when he hits you and he can't follow up midscreen hits into super dangerous mixups because of the nerfs to stuff like 2S (used to Vacuum and be plus on block) and the removal of his throw invincible overhead (old 6K).

[Alkipot]

Anybody have any thoughts about Bedman?

 

I don't think his damage is bad, but IMO he can lose easily to mindless rushdown from Sol, Elphelt, Sin, Ky, Millia, Leo etc. By no means do I think he's a bad character though, he has some useful and annoying shit he can do, but he can't just press any button and be successful in matchups. I think he can solidly beat Pot though, and that's about it. Any other matchup does not feel easy or even, and he seems to get by with character unfamiliarity than anything else.

[Clousephinat]

Truth be told, Axl "benzen-sama!" or whatever he says, is ten times more annoying for I-No than any shoryuken in the game, he and Venom have always been one of her worst matchups and top tiers or not Xrd is certainly no exception.