[CPEX] Tsubaki Video Thread (Updated 7/3/15)

Airk · June 24, 2015

That's what "standard vs Nu" looks like now? I've never see so many raw 236A's in my life. @_@

The thing that always amazes me about Konan is how much he screws up, but still manages to win.

chzchan · June 24, 2015

People are scared of him is what I am thinking. That gives him such a gigantic advantage in my eyes. Especially now with Tsubaki's changes (mostly damage), if the opponent makes a couple of the right mistakes if they were already slightly battered up from random neutral hits, they are dead. Though I mentioned it earlier, the two forward roll catches into death would not have been possible before CPE just due to damage output because Tsubaki catching rolls got her nowhere near as much damage, though he did end with a grab into OD DD hahaha. Dogura didn't roll forward that much at all and then when he did, he got perfected. That conditioning to always neutral tech alone makes things so much easier for Konan and Tsubaki as a character.

Even though he makes mistakes, he is so damn patient and really good at making the most out of every risk he takes even if he doesn't get what he expects. I could see a lot of the mistakes/misinputs he made though.

Airk · June 25, 2015

It helped that he was basically TOTALLY disrespecting Dogura early on too. "I'm gonna do 5BB > Nothing > pressure reset! Booyah!" OOkay then, buddy. If I did that, I'd die horribly.

Zouf · June 25, 2015

Same here, but i'm not Konan, people don't give a fuck about mashing me.

Konan outplayed Dogura, period. Not knowing the matchup is Dogura's fault. And how come he doesn't know the match up, it's the very same than in CP 1.0 and 1.1.

It just looked to me that he's just not as good with Nu as he was with Azrael.

chzchan · June 25, 2015

What Tsubaki player is Dogura able to fight frequently?

Monarch · June 25, 2015

Where art thou Kuresu

chzchan · June 25, 2015

I don't think he's been playing recently based on reading his twitter. Haven't seen much footage of him either. Hope he's doing alright.

Errol · June 29, 2015

That's what "standard vs Nu" looks like now? I've never see so many raw 236A's in my life. @_@

The thing that always amazes me about Konan is how much he screws up, but still manages to win.

This is pretty much how I play vs Nu and I've played thousands of matches against Nu. Not that much new here, though he just does everything really well.

It helped that he was basically TOTALLY disrespecting Dogura early on too. "I'm gonna do 5BB > Nothing > pressure reset! Booyah!" OOkay then, buddy. If I did that, I'd die horribly.

Same here, but i'm not Konan, people don't give a fuck about mashing me.

Konan outplayed Dogura, period. Not knowing the matchup is Dogura's fault. And how come he doesn't know the match up, it's the very same than in CP 1.0 and 1.1.

It just looked to me that he's just not as good with Nu as he was with Azrael.

You guys do need to compare your own pressure to konan's more, and you also need to remember that, like I said, Dogura just doesn't know this matchup, which includes things like knowing the best ways to disrespect tsubaki's pressure.

CPEX is when he started playing Nu.

Airk · June 30, 2015

This is pretty much how I play vs Nu and I've played thousands of matches against Nu. Not that much new here, though he just does everything really well.

Okay, what makes 236A good in this matchup?

chzchan · July 1, 2015

Konan at Gods Garden.

[6/28/2015] Konan (TS) VS Puromete[Koike] (LI)

[6/28/2015] Konan (TS) VS Chin (IZ) Holy shit how do you even stand a chance in this matchup now

[6/28/2015] Konan (TS) VS Kogatan (RG)

Zouf · July 1, 2015

nvm

Errol · July 2, 2015

Okay, what makes 236A good in this matchup?

This use is definitely new to CP2 because of the buff it got, where he uses it a lot more for just plain movement purposes. In general 236x was good in previous games because it covered a lot of options. where 5B loses to a lot of her options (2b, plain crouching makes it whiff). It's common to want to hard dash to deal with nu running away, but you'll lose to mashing there. at a mid range you can just beat a lot of those options with 236D, which has great reward now too.

In the situations where konan uses 236A I would've just did hard dashes or 3c, which work similarly and still have their own uses. late hit 3c, same as 236A, has extremely low recovery and extremely low frame disadvantage (if any), that lets you often get in even when blocked.

There's lots of other stuff happening in here that's standard since way back. His general approach in neutral, disrespect after Nu's 3c, pressure vs Nu, and defense. The most important thing to pay attention to is how he approaches.

Airk · July 3, 2015

Konan at Gods Garden.

[6/28/2015] Konan (TS) VS Chin (IZ) Holy shit how do you even stand a chance in this matchup now

This didn't look like a matchup based blowout to me. This looked like Konan getting outplayed. Izayoi only ever DP'd when there was meter for rapid cancel, and hit with it both times, but Konan baited it a bunch when she didn't have meter. And I'm sure there's a bunch of other stuff my lazy watching didn't pick up on (seemed like he was getting tagged with GA Crusade Seraphim Alpha a LOT). Maybe he's just not familiar with the matchup?

Zouf · July 3, 2015

Not using his charge at 37:02 to lenghten the combo (and corner carry) was a very bad decision imo

He did the same the next round.

Kogatan match was painful to watch. 5CC into 6BB? really? And 5CC into rekka just after.

Also so many DPs, ridiculous

chzchan · July 6, 2015

This didn't look like a matchup based blowout to me. This looked like Konan getting outplayed. Izayoi only ever DP'd when there was meter for rapid cancel, and hit with it both times, but Konan baited it a bunch when she didn't have meter. And I'm sure there's a bunch of other stuff my lazy watching didn't pick up on (seemed like he was getting tagged with GA Crusade Seraphim Alpha a LOT). Maybe he's just not familiar with the matchup?

That is probably true about matchup familiarity. I really have a hard time with her now that she has a DP since it is super hard to catch her regularly and pin her. Getting a knockdown on her when she is in GA is like getting a knockdown on Azrael or Arakune because her GA backdash requires you to be moving forward without stopping in order to punish its use or using a normal that cannot catch forward rolls midscreen. Now she has a real DP, so it is like Azrael when he had fully invuln Growler all over again and then if she has 50 meter you also have to worry about nearly unpunishable Phorizor. She's got a ton of defensive options that punish baiting of each of them respectively and she has great mobility on top of that. It is scary as hell. Really annoying actually.

In CPE, knockdown enders have been swapped in terms of type of knockdown which makes things hard if you want to avoid their wakeup. The fully charged followup 22B ground ender is just not that great compared to the old j.236A > j.214A air ender because they are not that high off the ground when the air tech window opens and doing the 22B as a followup drastically increases the special's recovery so you have a lot less time to move around while they are still in untech after you hit them.

I wish I had more non-netplay Izayoi matchup experience though. My feelings on the matchup are definitely warped because of it.

Kiba · August 3, 2015

The forum update has caused most links on the forum to lead to bad links. The video threads have taken a hit, including the previous video threads we had (I'm not going to sort out the old video threads).

So I need to go through all the videos and fix the links. So far I've fixed all of Konan's matches and I'm steadily going through the others. Not sure when I'll be able to get it done, I also need to sort out my Valkenhayn vids, but I'll keep you posted. For now please give me time and enjoy Konan's matches for now (not that you weren't enjoying them already).

- - - - -

8/1/15 Shinjuku Sportsland

Konan vs Barell (TG) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVx9H5oG3Lk

Konan's spacing is good. You can tell by the way he's poking Barell with a spaced 5B and the reason for that is to keep Tager a little more honest in neutral, or at least keep him guessing with your neutral options. You can see Konan uses IAD j.C often too. It's pretty fast and isn't a bad way to get in, but @ 3:05 you can see that over reliance can lead to you getting caught by Tager's Atomic Collidor. By mixing up both of these options you make the opponent a little more wary with what you can do. IAD j.C is good because you can do IAD j.CC for a double overhead, or IAD j.C into a command grab, 2B, or 6A, all of which require conditioning. Good use of these methods can help to make this matchup a little more easier. Granted it's risky because of Tager's 360, but like I said by varying your options you can confuse the player. Being passive for the most part won't really help.

Also if a mixup has failed you see that Konan charge cancels 5C and then backs away, because Tager 360 becomes much more of a threat after Tsubaki 5C since her options are much more limited. There's also the minor thing of using 6C on block against Tager since most of your followup options can lose to a 360. Your best bet is to space it (not very easy), and end with 22B. Followup projectile is bad because he can sledge it and that's free magentism for him.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Kiba

chzchan · August 5, 2015

He was really trying to not get 360'd. Just right off the bat he was expecting one hard but didn't get one. I wonder what he was trying to accomplish with that delayed j.214C there since I don't think you can get anything off of it on CH. Maybe it was j.214B? I think you can get a 2A on CH.

While trying to avoid yet another grab that never came out after doing a delayed and low to the ground j.CC, Konan got enough respect for a full on empty jump into grab which was successful. He immediately did a j.A which whiffed into a j.C near enough to the ground for j.C's active frames to not come out.

Was he trying to avoid getting a knockdown on Tager by ending the air corner combo with j.7CC? I guess it makes sense kind of. He'd still stay away while Tager's back is to the wall and he is decently spaced. Still unsure.

He attempted a reset off of a Tager specific combo that had an S starter since he knew he wouldn't get that much out of it if he went for an ender. It was a decent idea thanks to Tager's larger crouching hurtbox but it failed because Barrel mashed 5A.

Konan not delaying 421D enough to get it to work as protection after a knockdown. He did it much too early and needed to wait until Barrel touched the ground after 2C and neutral teched for this technique to work. If Barrel had delayed tech or attempted to roll, he would have been picked up into an already heavily protated blue beat combo which is the downside of using 421D after a 2C knockdown. This would only happen because of the distance you are from your opponent as well as Tager's gigantic hitbox.

An interesting combo filler string near the corner of 22D > 5B5C2C > etc. instead of 5C2CC. I wonder if it actually does more damage or if it is a spacing/timing thing in the combo.

While trying to space himself properly from Barrel by using 5B > 22B in pressure, Konan misjudges distance and forgets that 5D extends Tsubaki's hurtbox forward slightly. This gets him smacked in the face by the very very tip of Tager's 5D.

See here that following up a blocked DP with j.236D is NOT SAFE AT ALL, especially against Tager since Tager can use his projectile guard point move Sledge to get right under the projectile without fear and smack you on your descent. See, he really didn't even need to protect himself against the projectile with guard point since he reacted so early, but it is the lack of fear here in this case that makes it all the more risky to use against Tager compared to other characters. Not that the j.214D followup to the DP is any better because that gives him a free 360B if he doesn't barrier it.

Using whiffed 5As to time a command grab meaty after a knockdown is pretty handy once you see the opponent's neutral tech animation start up. Konan really likes to use normals to time things. I remember he used j.A to time j.C when used in a safejump and also a couple other things like the height of j.B when used after a jump cancel.

By dashing and immediately super jumping instead of air dashing, Konan maintains his air option while pursuing his airborne opponent after they had backward air teched. This allows him to get a more stable combo off of the random counter hit that he lands. I'm not sure if he messed up his juggle combo here or earnestly tried to go for the air grab tech trap. He does the same thing again after a successful 6A mixup so it has to be intentional.

Another strange ass air ender that doesn't end in knockdown and also involves j.7C. This time he whiffs a j.214A and Barrel techs forward. I don't know about this stuff man.

The I guess sort of new 2C > 22B > 5D ender which Konan has been using since forever apparently. Using this ender after 2C sacrifices oki and the safejump setup you get from using 2C close to the ground and creates space while also getting you a ton of charge. Since 22B here is used as a standalone special and not as a followup, it gets Tsubaki a guaranteed 0.5 charges from tapping 5D afterward and this makes a huge difference. He was able to get nearly 1.25 charges in the time it took Tager to finish his quick getup. Too bad Konan was too OCD about getting exactly 3 charges that he held 5D a bit too long which led to a Spark Bolt to the face.

Too bad he lost, but he took way way too many risks and got scooped by 360s on his wakeup. As a player, he gets so SOOOO much respect which helps him out a lot when he is applying pressure and whatnot because Tsubaki NEEDS that respect in order to work at all but it only goes so far and Tager is also a goddamn monster.

Edited August 5, 2015 by chzchan

Kiba · August 5, 2015

I wonder what he was trying to accomplish with that delayed j.214C there since I don't think you can get anything off of it on CH. Maybe it was j.214B? I think you can get a 2A on CH.
Was he trying to avoid getting a knockdown on Tager by ending the air corner combo with j.7CC? I guess it makes sense kind of. He'd still stay away while Tager's back is to the wall and he is decently spaced. Still unsure.

I assumed that the delayed dive was an accident, but if not, outside of that it's a pretty ballsy thing to do even for a hard call out. With air j.A you have the advantage of having numerous offensive options, so using the dive there isn't advised. It's better (still way risky) to use it after j.CC because of limited options and j.CC > land > 5A can lose to 360s, so it could work here as a frame trap.

With the air combo, you are correct. It's the same thing some Valkenhayn players avoid dealing with Tager's 360, although not by that much now that he can do it in the air. I think leaving Tager to deal with your air to ground mixup mixup is pretty cool though.

Nice stuff on the analysis. Good stuff.

Update - All of Kuresu's matches and the combo / misc stuff are back in place. In addition I've also backed up the stuff in this forum just in case something goes wrong. Not sure if I really want to retrieve the other matches but at least I've made a start.

Kiba · August 6, 2015

7/11 Game Chariot

Zekuso (AZ) vs Kuno (TS) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDtj-qcBsz4

Edited August 9, 2015 by Kiba

chzchan · August 6, 2015

Spent a bit of time today making this short video to showcase gimmicky j.D > j.X overhead. You'd be able to confirm out of it at and near the corner using j.214D > X back in CP1.1 but thanks to both the new j.214D and buffed 2A, you can turn that "instant" overhead into damage and, more importantly, corner carry from anywhere on the screen. It really isn't fast at all with j.B being minimum 26f startup and j.C at a whopping 29f, but both have much much more range than 6A and you can't be grabbed out of either. You can also decide to back off if you feel a DP coming by just air dashing backward or air barriering or something.

The routes that you get off of it in the corner are amazing for charge generation. You can swap out paths depending on how much damage you want to sacrifice for charge or if you just want a specific ender.

The routes shown here are the following:

Midscreen:

[1 Charge] j.C > j.214D > 2A5C2C > 214B > 2C > 623C > j.236{A}(w) > 5C2CC > sj.C > sj.CC > j.214B [2623 DM][]

Cancelling into 5D will get you 0.5 though, but I don't ever like to include that at the end since it changes your oki options.

Corner:

[1 Charge] j.C > j.214D > 2A5C2C > 214B > 5C2CC > j.CC > j.236A > j.D > j.B > j.BB > j.214B [2667 DM][0.5 Charges]

Same as above will get you 1 charge but you get 0.5 in the combo. This means that you actually don't spend any charges by the end of the combo.

[1 Charge] j.C > j.214D > 2A5C2C > 236C > 5A5C2C > 214B > 2{C} > 22B [2319 DM][0.5 Charge]

Ground ender which also gets you a guaranteed 0.5 charges at the end by cancelling into 5D. With the end spacing you can go for more if you really want to.

[1 Charge] j.C > j.214D > 2A5C2C > 236B > 214B > 5A5C2C > 214B > 2{C} > 22B [2353 DM][0.5 Charge]

Just a different variation of the above combo which I think is a bit harder. Same ender and all that.

[1 Charge] j.C > j.214D > 2A5C2C > 214B > 2{C} > 236A > 214B > 22|B| > 5D > 6BB > 22|B| [2400 DM][0.75 Charge]

Gets you by far the most charge with 0.75 guaranteed. You can easily hold D for longer just to top off at 1 or go further if you have that much respect.

Haha I can't put brackets around B anymore to show to hold it since it gets read as code. Welp.

Edited August 6, 2015 by chzchan

Kiba · August 10, 2015

7/27 Central Hachiouji

Kuresu (TS) vs Akashi (AZ) FT5 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEsGSCXCt_s

7/30 a-cho

Ragna vs Svampen (TS) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcRLGMtchQA&t=31m0s | Set 2 - To 53:49

Edited August 10, 2015 by Kiba

chzchan · August 14, 2015

[8/10/2015] Wara (TS) vs Air (LI) FT5

God dammit Wara. You OD just like I do. I even looked at how he was managing the specific timings of the ODs based on round time and it was also just like how I try to do so. Most of them are failed, but he also doesn't care because he gets dem stocks in the background. A ton of them were just neutral OD > DP which was really funny. Once he starts using OD as a pressure tool to stay in off of any blocked hit at the beginning of the first round and get a couple stocks out of +4 on block charge cancelling, then he'll be playing like I do.

Best OD and ODR examples:

Making Litchi's meaty low out of stance whiff. Any of Litchi's moves out of stance have a ton of recovery so it was smart on his part to OD on wakeup here upon seeing her go into stance while he was knocked down. If she would have cancelled the stance, he wouldn't have been able to punish but he would have been able to just get out of oki for free while generating charge and running away since that also takes a bit of time or maybe even start pressure.

Making the gatling 4B out of Litchi's staffed 6A whiff. 4B also has a billion frames of recovery so it is a very good place to ODR if you actually block Litchi's staffed 6A and your opponent is autopiloting the confirm they didn't get instead of taking advantage of the fact that the move is only -2 on block for having such a large horizontal range.

Making ANY standing overhead whiff. In this case it was just Litchi's staffless 6A raw, but there are no standard standing overheads in this game that have low recovery so if you actually think "I may be able to block this" you can just choose not to block it and OD right through it into a punish which they can't stop even if they have meter. You don't even need to think that. You can just OD at random during gaps in blockstrings and it sometimes just works. Superior gambling tech.

What Wara did here after the 5A confirm with his back to the corner is something that I love to do. Starting with 5A into sideswap 22[D] > 6C > 22|B| is the absolute best since it is such a great knockdown and momentum shift out of the situation he just got himself out of and it is so so easy to do. Mashing out of overheads or smacking people out of IB'd pressure reset points that the opponent thinks are safe are where I always go for this out of 5A if I have a charge because I will get that charge back in full plus some more depending on how many normals I use before going into 236C and still be able to catch rolls and meaty on the opponent's wakeup thanks to how godlike non-followup 22|B| ender is in the corner. He even tacks on a 421D just for kicks since he knew he would get another charge by the time OD ended. He is a savage.

Edited August 14, 2015 by chzchan