Venom vs Ramlethal

[DaiAndOh]

Discuss this matchup here

[DaiAndOh]

Matchup is in Ramlethal's favor.

 

If she blocks or gets hit, Swords will stop swinging. Knowing when you can make her block/hit her and when you have to take it is important.

 

Can't really do much about her giant sword going downard in the air (when attached). However, if she opts to follow it up with her special move, learn to instant block that (its 3 hits).

 

Keep mobile in neutral? It takes a lot longer for her detached swords to act if they have to teleport over, rather than having them just swing.

[Justice7541]

- c.S(3) works on Ram's crouching block. Makes it a bit easier to charge c.S > Carcass.

- Greatsword set homes on you so extended ball setups from fullscreen aren't really viable. Greatsword swing also eats moving balls so don't rely on them to cover your YOLO rush through swords I guess.

- 2S trades in Ram's favor (she gets like a billion damage off it) with Carcass if you do it from too far away and she has enough space to 2S CH.

[DaiAndOh]

Yeah I noticed this weekend sometimes c.S(3) would get 3 blocked hits on her crouching. Seemed a bit inconsistent, is it spacing dependent?

[Justice7541]

It doesn't seem to be. The hit might be whiffing because of distance, same as if Ram was standing.

[GodPress]

I don't know about you guys but I feel like this matchup is awful for Venom. You absolutely cannot play passively, you will lose. I feel like both characters want to do the same thing, namely, put you in the corner and stop you from playing as they both have a poor reversal game. Ram just does it better than Venom does. 

 

When she is cornered she's kind of in the same boat as Venom, has to take it or risk going hard on her 5P to try and trade her way out.

 

Ball sets that aren't covered by say, f.S, will allow her to also put down a sword. Not ideal. I've found that even though you can cause her to block to stop the swords from swinging it's much easier said than done. Air to airing her is pretty iffy, I've had a lot of success with j.D and less so with j.P, mainly due to the how strong her j.P is and her j.HS with sword. 

 

Don't test her 6P, you'll lose in most cases..

[Justice7541]

Maybe I haven't played a really good Ram yet (callouts to all the Rams at my local sessions lol) but I don't think it's necessarily that bad. Venom can't go full ham with ball spam but once he gets even one or two of them moving with something like Carcass or Stinger YRC, Ram's the one who has trouble shifting momentum back in her favor, since she's the one whose projectile stops if she blocks, not us.

Other than that, her air game is better but it doesn't crush Venom 6P like other chaacters do, and Venom's neutral game is much better. On top of that Venom's got a really fast poke that stuffs a lot of her pressure options (2S) so unless she's actively setplaying, even her really + on block pressure options like the overhead chain end up being not actually that safe in practice. Also, c.S(3) works on her on block, so once Venom makes her block, he's going to make her block for a while.

[DaiAndOh]

Ramlethal's j.HS when she has the sword will destroy any anti-air attempt. Other than that Venom can anti-air normally.

 

That said, this matchup is pretty bad. (Blacksnake considers it among his worst 3 with Chipp and Millia, I think Zato MIGHT be a bit worse personally? This is up there though) You're working around swords from a distance. Getting tagged and letting her get in can lead to big damage, corner carry, and devastating okizeme.

 

Like all of Venom's matchups against top tier, it's pretty much win neutral and stay in or be killed.

 

And the videos of high level players further show how hard this matchup gets.

[xxteefxx]

It is a bad matchup in everyway possible. Actually looking at the roaster of chars, venom has lots of not good matchups.

By far the worst would be millia for me followed by ram. Atleast ram has a bigger hurtbox and slow in comparison, and can be pressured real well once venom is able to get in,leading to a lpt of varieties of oki pressure and mixups.

[TittyFOFO]

Eh, I don't think this is all that bad. Swords aren't really all that scary once you figure out what they do, unless you're in the corner or it's behind you and you can't see it lol. Easily avoided for the most part with teleports and general movement, or interrupted with fast ball zoning (stick to one ball, unless you already gave her a good reason to stop doing stuff). Obviously if she summons a sword at the same time you set a ball, don't feel like you have to hit it immediately. Stinger feels really good in this fight, particularly when YRC'd to get you in.

6P seems to destroy Ram at neutral, due to her goofy ass hitbox and lack of good low pokes. Your other pokes work well too, but might as well lead with the one with upper body invul lol. Also chains to 6HS for knockdown combo on CH or free ball summon on block.

The assessment of her j.HS with a sword seems pretty accurate, but it doesn't seem all that threatening unless she's above you by a good bit (like max range of the sword). If she's above you like that, maybe try dashing under to fuck with sword inputs or otherwise just not get stabbed in the face.

She converts random hits for damage better than Venom, but I feel like we should get a lot more random hits that potentially give more ball summons or knockdowns for oki. She can totally ruin your life with oki once she gets going, but the same can be said for 70% of the cast IMO, Venom included lol.

No way in hell this is a worse matchup than Zato IMO.

[Kinslayer15]

I've been playing this match up quite a bit lately and I must agree that this is not in our favor. Ramlethal not only destroys us in terms of screen control, but she also has better damage and some solid resets after her combos are completely extended. She is just a monster all around. Things I've found to work though are wide spaced two ball sets after knock downs. Preferably with the second ball being the one set farthest away for you the reason being, if ramlethal wants to play at a distance and set her swords away from her body you can react to the teleporting of the swords and teleport yrc or teleport air normal in front of her. Then the second ball will act as a disengage if you get close and things get crazy.

I've been doing this and it has seen some sucess, but even still the match is hard. Only solace is if we hit her it will hurt bad no matter what she is hot with she loses half life and we get a set up on a character whose only reversal cost her two bars.

As for zato I don't think its a bad match up imo. I think it's just eat or be eaten and whomever gets the first bite wins. I am from Omaha so I get to play Cue a lot so it's one of the few match ups I play reasonably well.

[Eshi]

I 100% agree that this is a bad match-up for Venom, but it's still very winnable. Like it's been said already, Venom absolutely can not use his normal ball zoning strategy because Ramlethal will just set a sword to negate all of them while hitting you. She straight up wins at zoning. The best strategy is to keep her at midscreen distance and throw pokes at her because her swords go dormant if she has to block or gets hit. Only summon one ball at a time since your close distance makes it easier to get punished. fS, 6H and jD are good here. Her jH is ridiculously strong air-to-ground but you can throw her out of it by jumping and instant blocking. 

 

So basically, play an aggressive midscreen game against her and fish for knockdown. Both characters have amazing okizeme so your goal is to get knockdown first. I'd say that Venom & Ramlethal go about 50/50 with midscreen footsies, but the fact that Ramlethal straight wins from full screen plus has stronger knockdown mixup and that broken Dark Angel upgrade puts the match-up in her favor.

[DaiAndOh]

In addition, damage comes into play, because Ramlethal will usually need to hit Venom more times.

 

Question about what you said about j.HS, do you mean air throw or ground throw?

 

When she has S sword, she because really strong at the midrange neutral game, but without it, significantly less so (still has options with her projectile and green charge though).

 

And PS: Fuck ASW for nerfing Dark Angel and giving her a better one...

[TittyFOFO]

Difference between our zoning and her's is flexibility. Swords always do the same thing during the initial placing, making them fairly easy to avoid to some extent. We have a large number of applications for any one ball, which is pretty huge in this match-up. It's also not like she has the option of just sitting on the other side of the screen spamming swords. As long as you stay active while zoning, swords should be that hard to deal with.

[DaiAndOh]

Swords don't always do the same thing, there's a couple of different options. Slower startup ones control more space and give higher rewards, is the initial placing different in that regards?

 

Getting one ball out helps a lot though as you said. I just wish you could 6P the P ball after you place it (like AC P).

Also if you're too far, Venom isn't fast enough to ground dash past the lower sword when it gets activated (with the fastest activation).

Mobility is important. Maybe even setting a ball and taking advantage of teleport if they push the swords further towards you while retreating?

[TittyFOFO]

Oh, my bad. I thought that when she first places a sword, it would always be the vertical or horizontal slash vice the arcing slashes. I'm not exactly a Ram player, and that was what I thought from training mode.

And yeah, running past the sword is prolly a bad idea. I'd say jump or backdash are the best options. And teleport is a great option for this fight, as long as you don't get predictable. Even just the threat of teleport should be enough to get good players to slow their roll.

[Eshi]

In addition, damage comes into play, because Ramlethal will usually need to hit Venom more times.

 

Question about what you said about j.HS, do you mean air throw or ground throw?

 

When she has S sword, she because really strong at the midrange neutral game, but without it, significantly less so (still has options with her projectile and green charge though).

 

And PS: Fuck ASW for nerfing Dark Angel and giving her a better one...

Air throw her out is what I meant, but ground throw probably works too. Depends on how high up you are when you instant block it.

[D-D-Domo]

5K>5P>5P

 

Normal Block

-the last hit can be countered with c.S(timing dependent), 1-frame jump, Dark Angel, or Blitz Shield

 

Instant Block

-you can throw Ramstein after 5K>5P and 5P>5P

-you can Blitz Shield after 5K>5P and 5P>5P

-you can back-dash after 5K>5P and 5P>5P

-and instant blocking the 5P>5P practically lets you do anything you want; she is in counter-hit state if you hit her with a fast enough move

 

c.S/f.S>Diarhea

 

Normal Block

-throw that shieeeeeet (kind tight yo, gotta wait for that booty to be up in your gryll, ifyouknowwhatImeanohhbby)

-you can back-dash out, but it's tight like her, yeyeye

 

Instant Block

-you can throw and back-dash easier and now Blitz Shield

 

Trance

 

Normal Block

-get fucked

 

Instant Block

-git fooked beotch

 

But srs aight, you can throw her if shes near and Trance will go right through you. But who's dumb enough to do that?PLZNERFARC

[SIne]

ah, maybe im misunderstading something but im pretty sure you cant backdash or throw the 5S Dauro or c.S dauro string

[DaiAndOh]

How can you Dark Angel through like...anything? Is there really a 8 frame gap?

[D-D-Domo]

ah, maybe im misunderstading something but im pretty sure you cant backdash or throw the 5S Dauro or c.S dauro string

I tried it myself. I mean, it's not easy but doable. Unless there was a gap when I made the computer do it. PRETTY SURE I DIDN'T.

 

How can you Dark Angel through like...anything? Is there really a 8 frame gap?

For that one instance of her move where you instant block her, sure.

[TittyFOFO]

So um, Ram's instant j.2D blows up Venom 2S at the beginning of a round. This is easily countered with 6P, but that gets blown up by her 2S.

[Redefinition]

So um, Ram's instant j.2D blows up Venom 2S at the beginning of a round. This is easily countered with 6P, but that gets blown up by her 2S.

LOL holy shit. instant j.2D. I've never seen this done but uh. That's definitely an interesting one.

[D-D-Domo]

Anyone else feel like Ram is a better Venom? _like srslyyyyyyyyyyyyy_

 

Also, anyone found any stuff that beats her air normals? Cuz she can flail her limb all match like a wet dildo and I can't slap it away cuz Venom's own jP is too slow and his other air normals hit at specific angles (and are also slow compared to hers). Also Teef is obviously the best Venom in the world if he can shit talk so well.

[Pomparomp]

Ram's safe neutral plan is basically jump back and set swords or mash j.p, so no there's not much you can do other than anti-air or force her to block a ball before the swords get you.