Henaki

im gonna answer this because its actually a good thing. comboable bursts mean you have more offensive options (despite them being rather homogeneous). what this means is you can sacrifice your "defense" for more offense. if it fails or succeeds you either do more damage, or there are now less defensive fallbacks (the universal systems that homogenize the characters mean that it's much easier to balance hella bs) in the game. this means rounds go faster and we see a more offensive/faster game. this is most of the reasoning behind most of the change from cs1 -> cs2 (less braindead stuff, game becomes faster, offense is more powerful, no catch all answers to defense). lk is better at the game than 99% of americans and will most likely truthfully answer peoples questions and not give them total misinformation. you know, the thing dustloop should be doing in the first place.

thats depressing that gold tager is still really really good though, based on how he reacted.

considering how good that tager is (despite obviously just trolling/dicking around/picked beginner mode by accident) and the color its probably galileo

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13011059 edit: if you play tager, you'll like this video!

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13006649 BBCS2 tournament.

CS2 first footage: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm12996134 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm12996454 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm12996644 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm12996908 edit: err, not gonna upload these, whoever wants to, go ahead. jourdal or rin i guess?

Okay, will update in a few minutes, was out for a while.

daiandoh can you reformat your changes into bulletpoints for the time being first post updated, i might have missed something other than what daiandoh posted. if i did, tell me.

Not gonna be around for a few hours. Will update when I'm back.

Updated first post with that first wave of carl stuff. Dream Maker it might be best to consolidate your info into bullet points. It's not necessary but saves me some work. I also put in a thank you list in the first post so anyone who credibly translates info gets credit. A mod MIGHT need to take over editing the first page in a while, I may very well run out of space to edit into the first post lol edit: consolodated new Carl info in OP. also, if anyone notices any mistakes or anything I missed, PLEASE TELL ME. I'm going through a shitload of info and need to safely water it down into chunks. I'm probably going to screw something up.

Tager 今日やってきたので気づいたことをいくつか 自分の感覚なので間違ってたら指摘をお願いします ・スレッジ関連 追加が飛び道具のみ無敵、一歩前進するのは変わらないのでSTG勢以外にも用途はあるかも。 Aスレの隙は少なくなっているのでそれと併用して使っていきたい。 ・通常技関連 ５Aと５Cがとにかく強い。 ５Aは判定が上にも強くなっているので気軽に振っていける。 ５Cキャンセル受付時間が長いのでヒット確認から色々出来る、画面端では５C当ててからの択が重要な気がする。特にジャンプを狩れるので意欲的に５C→コレダーを狙っていきたい。 ・６A 強技。振りかぶって直ぐにアーマーが発生するので便利。昇竜などを一方的に潰せる。下段等何に潰されるかは調べられなかったorz。 起き攻めや、コンボ中の５Cキャンセルで溜めて出して攻めを継続するのが良い感じ。基本は２Cにつないでヒット確認コレダーかガード時３C。６Bがキャンセル可能かどうかは調べてないです。出来れば有効だと思う。 後ガードさせた後ドライバーは無理。CSと比べて硬直が長いので見てから反撃確定。 ・チャージ 隙がかなり減った気がする。相手の空中攻撃をチャージで受ける→ジェネが間に合った。 ・牽制・D技 ５Dの仕様変更が相手キャラによって有利にも不利にもなるのでこれからの研究次第な感じ。ただ現状この性能で文句いっちゃいけないと思う。 ・ダメージ 他キャラと比べたら全然高いと思う。なにか引っかかれば画面中央で3000↑取れるのは強いの一言。 後は他の人が書いてあるので割愛。しばらくは他のキャラより有利に戦えそう、伸び代は今までよりはあると思う。 後自分だけかもしれないが今作からガジェットフィンガーが全部２Dに化けるんだけど何かコツってある？ There's a lot of wishy-washiness in this post so...

Tager 6Aアーマー 振りかぶって一瞬待ってからアーマー吸い付け始まるんで、｢見てから返す｣的な使い方はつらい ボタンを離して一瞬後に攻撃が発生する 6A攻撃発生後の手を振り下ろす動作にもアーマー判定はある 5D 吸い付けが弱いが、上方向に攻撃範囲が広がった Bドラからの2Bコレダー 可 じじい 椿 ラムダ まこと 姫様(5C6Aコレダーつながる) 不可 じん らぐな 猫 はくめん あらくぅね ぶらちな 他キャラは調べてない GETB 出した瞬間相手がなぜか半キャラ分ほど手前に強制スライドする そのせいで実質投げ間合いが広がった 磁力なし時だった気がするけど、磁力時限定だったら俺のみまちがい 立ちGETBが簡単に 人によっては十分安定化可能かと 総評 回りが弱くなったので相対的にイケる気がするが、 はくめんやはざま相手での追いかけっこ的展開自体は変わらない 煮詰まってきた際のノビシロがなければ厳しくなるかな Seems to mention Standing GETB is much easier?

i put a list format in the OP, if i ever get anything wrong, please correct me. it would be very helpful for any additional posts to be placed in that format.

I wasn't doubting you, I phrased that poorly haha. I didn't post that change originally because I wasn't 100% sure if I read it right is all.

Yeah I was unsure about this one when I read it. The guy who posted a huge list of Tager changes probably doesn't play Tager, he listed a couple of things that haven't changed at all.

Post more and I'll put em in here. DON't WHITE ABOUT HOW SHITTY YOUR CHARACTER IS HERE, OR WHAT KIND OF BS ANOTHER CHARACTER GOT. TAKE CHARACTER CHANGE DISCUSSION TO THE CHARACTER FORUMS. UNLESS YOU ARE CONTRIBUTING INFORMATION (EITHER IN JAPANESE, ENGLISH), OR CLARIFYING/CORRECTING INFORMATION ALREADY POSTED, DON'T POST. IF YOU FIND ANY CHANGES, POST THEM, JAPANESE OR NOT, NOT EVERY TRANSLATOR HAS THE TIME TO READ THROUGH EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER FORUM TO FIND EVERY SINGLE CHANGE. DON'T GO THROUGH THE JBBS WITHOUT A CLUE AND POST RANDOM JAPANESE SHIT YOU SEE THOUGH. BUFFS WILL BE LISTED WITH A "+" IN THE LIST, NERFS WITH A "-", NEUTRAL CHANGES OR CHANGES WITH MULTIPLE POSITIVES AND NEGATIVES WITH A "o". Carl + 6A is way easier to use, invincibility feels really long. - Throw damage nerf? Forward throw, j2C, jB, 2D, 5C, volante, j2C allecan, 5C, jB, jC, 2D does about 2500 - Cantata's startup is slower -Nirvana's gauge has no change to consumption. However Nirvana seems to lose a lot more gauge when hit by opponents and takes a lot more time to recover once broke. Red effect on Nirvana when she gets hit. o Nirvana's gauge consumption speed is not that bad (altough if she dies it takes indeed some time for her to regenerate) o Jump feels somewhat unconfortable?+ Easier to continue combo after 2hit 8D o Basic solo Carl air combo now : anything into cantabile, C, jB, j2C, jB, jC, jB, allegretto o JC knocks down, but the opponent falls at about the same speed as Carl. o B vivace same o Bounce after j2C is really high, so high that even after j2C being guarded Tager was able to catch Carl with atomic collider. o jB fatal counter is indeed gone but jB counter is now close to being air untechable. Carl can pick the opponent up if he lands first or continue offense hitting with nirvana's 3D. ? Since there are few occasions to land 3C counter it can't be used much (an above poster however said that 3C > cantata still works). It's basically useful for pseudo unblockables with nirvana's 2D. Jin Jin + j.B is looking as dangerous as it was in CT. + You can do "5B > 2B" and 5B > 6A", it looks like 6A is a really fun move to use now. + Neutral throw's freeze time is longer now. o "Throw > 6C > j.C > j.2C > dj.2C > 214C (214D > 6C > 214C also works)" deals about 2100 damage. o "Backthrow > 6C > j.C > j.2C > 214C" deals about 2000 damage. Lambda + j.C and j.2C's damage increased. + If you are hit while in Gravity's startup frames, the gauge does not disappear. + "Corner throw > 5C > 6C > Spike Chaser > 5C > 6C > 236C > 6A > 6C > 2DD > Aerial combo" is possible, deals around 3000 damage. + "236C > 5C > Gravity > 2DD > Crescent > 6A > 6C > 236C > Aerial combo" is possible. + Gravity is now a Fatal Counter. + "FC Gravity > 5C > 6C > 236C" is possible. + 5C[1](CH) > 236C alot easier to do now + 6B faster + 5DD/4DD > 236236D easier to do + Whiffed gravity doesn't use up whole gauge (2/3?) + j.DD > j.2DD works on every character + Faster air backdash - 214D recovery slightly longer? - Minimum TK Crescent Height is higher - "236C > 5C > Gravity > 2DD > Crescent > 5D..." cannot be done anymore. - Crescent Loop can be done for 3~4 reps max. o From 5A anti air, you can deal about 2400 damage. o 6C does not wallbound. o 5C > 6C loop looks possible, but it may not be. o 236A cross up range needs testing (2B > 236A seems to be optimal range for cross up, 3C > 236A seems to stop at the opponent so whiff 4B might still be viable) o Max range 3C > 236D makes a good...meaty? o 236B > RC > 5DD>236C's float is alot lower now, investigating potential combos o RC Airgrab on Arakune no longer puts you on opposite side(same is assumed for Bang) Litchi - Itsuu can not be followed-up from 2B[m], 2C[m], 3C[m] or 6D[m]. - 6A[m] no longer bounces the opponent. o 4D[m] makes the opponent slide, 2B > 5B > j.B > j.B > j.C > j.B works. (Itssu is a move with the Staff, this is Staffles so it may be Ippatsu at the end) Makoto + j.2C became a deadly move if the opponent gets hit by it (lol, that's how he called it), it's fine if the opponent blocks it, though. + Using 236A on oki is the same as CS1, however it feels like there's more time to mix-up after it. + It seems like you can get 5000 corner damage. With Particle Flare, that becomes 6300. + Particle Flare is really simple to combo with. + Midscreen: "214A~CCCCC > 214A~A/B". It was said that you can make a ambiguous mix-up with this using either A or B follow-up. + Corner: "5B > 5CC > 6B > 5D > 2C > 214B~D > 236A~D > 2C > 2D > j.D > 5CC > j.C > j.B > dj.CC > 623C~D" deals 4800 damage, gains 58 meter. + Corner: "2A > 5B > 5CC > 6B > 5D > 2C > 214B~D > 2C > 2D > j.D > 236A~D > 6A > j.B > dj.B > 623C~D" deals around 3800 damage. + Corona, Lightning Arrow and Shooting Star are all faster than before. + 214A~B looks as fast as Noel's Assault Through. + 214B/C~D's charging speed is surprisingly fast. + Makoto's 3C hit has a increased hitbox, she could go under Comet Cannon. - j.2C can't be jump cancelled any longer. - Makoto's hitbox when doing 3C is bigger, but she could go under Comet cannon. - "3C > 2C > 2D > Comet Cannon" is possible on some characters, but not all of them. - Comet Cannon's startup is slower. - 5D > 2D > j.D > 236A~D can't be done. - 2A feels a bit slower. - Parry cancel gone (duh) - You can't do "2B > 6A > 5B > 2B" - You can't do "3C > 2C > 2D" anymore. o After reaching its maxium height, Asteroid Vision B and C feels like deacelerating while falling down. (After that, something about Asteroid C being like j.2C, couldn't comprehend really well) o 2B follow-up's timing after airthrow is looking a little slower. o Perhaps Comet Cannon's hitbox is bigger now. o "623C RC > 214C~D (LV3) > 236A~D (LV3) > 214B~D (LV3)" looks all faster than before. After Asteroid B, it seems like there is not enough time for you to use 236A~D again. (Corner only?) o 2A looks like it's around 6F startup. (according to what Spark tested for us, it was 6F on startup already, so no change here) o j.CC's hitbox has not changed at all. o The hitstop reduction on her moves made her look more stylish. o Her jump's "orbit" seems to have changed. Because of that, they way you use her j.CC seems to have changed a little. o Corona Upper floats less now. (?) o Like always, "6B > 214A~C~A" works on Tager and Hakumen. o 5D has less disadvantage on block (?), all the other D moves remain the same. Mu-12 + 3C Now it's jump cancelable. + 2B > 2C has been added. + Ame no Habaya deals 5 hits, can be followed-up. - Omohikane minimum damage decreased to around 1100. - Throw follow-up combo dealing around 1800 instead of 2800. ・j.2C Looks like there's some recovery after she reaches ground. o (Something about enemies falling faster after an air hit, please someone translate this for me.) o Corner combo should be "6B > 63214C > 6A > j.2C loop" o Her loop apparently remains the same. o 2B can't be used for relaunch, but Furu no Tsurugi is fast so it can be used as follow-up. Noel + "5A > 6A > 6C > Astral Heat" and "5D > 6A > 6C > Astral Heat" are possible. + If you RC her back throw, you should be able to follow it up with j.D - Her 5A and 5B can't hit Makoto's 3C. o Fenrir's damage with 18 successful hits is around 2700. The last hit's minimum damage should be 1000. o Her throw's recovery has been increased? You can follow-u her throw with Haida, but the timing is a little weird. o Bullet Rain > Fenrir deals around 3300. o You can deal about 6100 damage off 4D FC in corner. Rachel. + overall damage increased + j.A is an overhead again + 6B can be gatling'd into 5C or 3C + 6B is jump-cancellable on block and hit (needs definitive confirmation on block though, but looks legit) - 5CC slides now instead of making the opponent twirl, so midscreen combos are much harder o j.2C lvl 3 still forces fatal counter Tager: + 6A: Has upper body super armor with infinite(?) amount of hits. Loses to lows. Has higher pull in and charge up. + J.C>j.b works on hazama, litchi, valk, and hazama. + 360B damage increase? + ASledge buffed (either speed or distance). - 6A loses jump cancel property. o Charge is 214D o 2C has not gatling besides into 3C o GETB has changed magnetism properties (unsure). Tsubaki + 5D's charge speed is faster than before. It seems like he got 1.5 charge meter really fast. + 2D's initial charge speed is kinda slow, after that it gets faster. + Air throw can be followed up midscreen without gauge. + A/B/C "Sword" staggers on ground hit. - The opponent techs faster when hit by 3C, so you have no other choice but use 3CC. - Her ground throw cannot be cancelled; it blows the opponent off like you were hit by "Wind". - While charging, you're in CH status. - "C Light" does not break Primers. o 6CC > "D Wind" is possible on corner. o On midscreen, "D Wind" blows the opponent just like A/B/C, but can't be followed-up. o "A Spear" has the same startup time from CS1 but since there isn't any invencibility anymore, people were hit out of it a lot. Can't be followed up even on CH. o 6B looks faster, can't follow-up with 5C anymore. o "Airthrow > 2CC > j.C > dj.CC > "A Light" > "C Wing"" deals around 2400 damage. o "A/B/C Sword" on CH is just like CS1. Changes are.. well, take with a grain of salt the first few days as we have to skim BBS for info for the time being. I'll also consolidate a nicer format once we have more than one character and a handful of changes. A BIG THANK YOU TO: HiagoX Dream Maker Jiyuna

im going to pretend img onna use another character then im gonna use tager

im pretty sure you can spark after throw recovery

gadget doing damage will be funny with double gadget trick now, if it did 800 damage and scaled, that would be fucking hysterical. arakune or lambda guessing wrong twice = death haha.

hey guys, have you heard of this really bad game called guilty gear?

lol holy shit at the people who think broken is bad.

i dont think premium should give you access more to a simple shiny, upgraded av size and less/no ads

litchi is fundamentally a good character design. if she is ever bottom tier i will be surprised. she will just be varying levels of good. for the same reason tager will be varying levels of bad. yeah this. every subtle change you make in a game has vastly more impact than the developers will ever comprehend. fighting games are delicate little houses of cards, if you nerf something or change something your mind will be blown how that can change an entire character. things like changing the frame advantage on a single move can make it totally safe vs a character on IB or make a new combo possible due to that move hitting 2 frames later in a certain setup which causes a loop that does 60% damage because if you always hit on that 3rd active frame it gives you enough wiggle room to repeat 2 moves. for that matter changing the range on a move can mean your effective "shutdown" range vs a certain character can change adn this might be a change for the better but it might totally screw iwth another. shit just happens. deal with it.

heres a trend: jin is easy to play.

i have no idea they would nerf throws even more, i kind of like the balance of "somewhat easy to escape, but really rewarding" throw system (which could have possibly been tweaked a bit downward by complete removal of OS but whatever).