Henaki

im just gonna break this down. potemkin was a terrible character in X, he had nothing. he was honestly tager: a useless gimmick. the two most important changes potemkin received were the following from X to XX -> Hammerbreak and hammerfall FRC. these two things ALONE made him a decent character because suddenly he better methods of approach, safe, repeatable pressure that actually wasnt braindead to beat etc. hammerfall being a good staple of his movelist transformed him from a grappler with useless shit to a character who had to work but had the necessary tools to win because if someone wanted to block, they could and potemkin got multiple chances to mix them up instead of a grand spanking number of one. the reason thats IMPORTANT is because the single hardest aspect of playing a grappler is getting into a range where you can actually do something. once you do, a grappler should be KING FUCKING SHIT of that range. grapplers need good frame advantage, jump prevention (collider is not this by the way) and a way of keeping pressure without sacrificing their lifebar and momentum if the opponent has skill, aka they need safe, repeatable pressure (with limits). these are singlehandedly the most important tools a grappler NEEDS to be good. potemkin HAD all of these besides safe repeatable pressure. hammerfall frc and hammerbreak did just that. now anyway, why was potemkin bad in XX and #R? because other characters were downright broken. i dont mean like, "s tier is good and shuts him down". I mean like these two games tierlists were dictated by just how bad of a job arc systems did designing their characters (though the cheap shit kind of balanced out in a cool way in #r). like, eddie and slayer basically fucked those games up so hard that your character strenght was "how badly do you get raped by them". i forgot the rest of the good characters but basically XX wasnt too discovered and eddie was so broke in XX that by the time #r was around people finally discovered how just how broken eddie was. like if people wetn back in time in the laters days of #R and made a tier list it would look like this; SSSSGODSSSS++++S eddie s slayer a who honestly gives a fuck? thats the xx tier list. XX and #R werent really balanced games or anything, but potemkin was a good game trapped in "land of how you beat eddie" ps eddie still rapes potemkin because of his character design alone. anyway then slash came out and most characters got put into check and potemkin suddenly became mid tier. then they fucked up and gave potemkin comboable slide head and he because high A in ac despite probably being solid without it. he has like the best oki in AC besides like slayer and millia because of slide head meaties and shit too. that shit rapes characters pretty damn hard. hes a solid stable character unless the matchup is eddie though. part 2: tager tager has literally nothing that makes a grappler good. he has a 720 and also does damage and has attacks. thats seriously it. he has no qualities of a good grappler. he has no jump prevention, his only safe repeatable pressure involves 236A RC or ceases to be pressure at all, his damage is mediocre outside of 720. but oh yeah, he has 720, so making him good would be the STUPIDEST MOVE IN THE WORLD. so tager will forever suck and have these fundamental problems.

potemkin was a good character that got owned by other characters being simply better than he is. tager is a gimmick.

Just making a clarification: AOU is continuing today and tommorrow, today (Japan today, as in, for the next 12 hours) it is still restricted to press only, tommorrow it will be open season for the public. So you won't see a large amount of character info for another 24-48 hours, when anyone can actually play the game instead of a few who may or may not be good at the game.

he has a lot of control over the game field and has a 720. hes already not fun to fight against. now imagine if he was good.

oh if they universally made sweeps techable thats kind of a big nerf to tager because his best bread and butter off 5a requires that.

actually i just think no one really played tager, they're waiting on something, or they have no idea what to change.

actually tager would probably be the most unfun, lamest grappler to play against if he was S, im actually okay with him being low A or something but thats about the best tager should ever be.

okay serious thoughts: ragna nerfs seem completely unnecessary. ragna is a solid character and atm doesnt really need much. bang nerfs are extreme, but unless they pull a rachel here i doubt hell remain shit. tager lololololol they'll never make tager good so whatever. noel: instantly has become the most brainless character in 2 changes, i love it. most character changes seem reasonable.

hahahaahah fuck tager bye bye.

rip my old philly thread

A+ and S- are pretty interchangeable, he's still the best of A or the bottom of S. ps i dont even remember the last time i played zidane. my placement of hazama is actually based on alzarath/LK/zidane's opinion, not my own.

thanks for closing the thread without backing up your thoughts spirit, you stay free.

i live in your state and who the fuck are you.

dont post, kill yourself, die irl.

its like you didnt even read my post! wow! good job. im glad i pointed out those stipulations where a basic, fundamental character can be s tier! also ps that character in this game is hazama. pps ryu isnt even s tier.

basic characters usually start off stronger than they end up over time. ragna was S on early tier lists because no one figured out how to beat his offense for a while, once all of the holes were filled and ragna (an extremely simple character) became figured out, he had nothing new to fill the void of that anti-ragna. the basic characters always fall for this reason. people can learn their potential easily, while other characters are getting figured out. once the simple character has been figured out, almost anything new that gets discovered to beat that can't be beat by counter discovery, because that character has already hit his potential. you will see this in almost every game, unless that basic character is just so fundamentally strong that they shit on everything for free regardless. in anime games this happens less often because theres so much more to discover and explore. no one knew all of this crazy hazama shit in month 3, but i can't think of any new good ragna combos or techniques that aren't really subtle or marginally better than what he had before. hazama is a pretty complex (in play, anyway) character with a lot of options that weren't fully explored.

you can nitpick all you want, S- is pretty interchangeable with A+. the balance between S and B is fairly solid anyway. ragna loses his charm once you learn how to block, end of story.

i just IBed your post

no i know, i'm just clarifying more upon the tier list.

its modified with input from LK/alzarath. basically any character at the edge can go up or down depending on what edge they are depending on your opinion. IE s- hazama can be a+ but it barely matters. the only people i genuinly think might need moving are either tao or tsubaki. everything else is pretty cemented based on numerous opinions from people i asked. tao is apparently better in japan according to LK, but i haven't really seen/heard the justification for it (not that i disagree, i know little about tao). i know so little about tsubaki that i'm just willing to take whatever top player's word for it.

S Litchi Bang > Hazama A Arakune Carl > Hakumen Ragna Tao B Jin Lambda > Noel C Tager > Tsubaki Rachel based on japanese tier list, jBBS/wiki (via LK), alzarath, myself.

ragna is overrated, arakune has uphill fights vs 4 characters, id put them in the same tier as carl. hazama does everything (everything!) well, he has absolutely no glaring weaknesses. a character has to have no fundamental weaknesses or their gimmick must be so overwhelmingly powerful it just beats everything to be s tier. all of the s tier fit the former (litchi bang hazama).

hazama is literally good at everything in the game besides having a small space where his moves arent as great. he is fundamentally the strongest character in the game.