OrionXElite

So Tagerbros, I'm gonna be going to Northwest Majors this weekend and there is going to be a playable version of Extend there for people to mess around with so I intend to play that shit a ton. I don't know if there are going to be any other Tager players from here at the event as the only Tager I know of from PNW here is Osuna and I dunno if he'll be there. But I'm here to ask you guys if there is anything you'd like me test out when I'm playing. I intend to really mess around with his combo potential as hes a walking combo video now so I love it :3 So I'm making a list of anything I wanna try and I'm adding to that anything you guys here would like me to try. Combo related, Magnetism related or pressure related things I can all work with on the fly. So ask away and I'll try my best to figure out as much as possible :3

So I'm gonna be going to Northwest Majors this weekend and there is going to be a playable version of Extend for people to mess around with. I plan to play this as much as possible and hopefully try and figure some new things out. My number 1 goal is to figure an optimized Damage/Heat Gain Fatal combo for Tager as I've been doing theory fighter about his new combos since day 1 :3 BUT I'm also really curious about what kind of things you could work into Valk combos in certain situations so I intend to play him a bunch too. So I have a question for the rest of the Valk Forums: Is there anything you guyd would like me to try out?? Combos, pressure and random crap like that?? I was gonna make a list of things to try so I can keep track of it all and I planned to add extra things that others wanted me to try too. So ask away if you have any thoughts :D

Even though Extend isn't out yet, I'm adding this here for people to discuss what they think the matchup will be like as we have no CS2 comparison for Relius. Focus for now should be general Matchup concepts meaning how do Valk's tools do against Relius' tools and how they approach each other, counter each other and pressure each other. We can add in things like Punishes and direct AA options like the Traditional style once we have Frame Data for Extend or just the game :3 Feel free to express yourself openly here too. We have the freedom of being more theoretical due to us only having videos to speculate so getting opinions out now is better for understanding things on the whole. I'm also gonna add and update the videos section for Relius in this thread so you have a quick list for reference. I plan to do this with all the new Extend matchup threads but the rest of them will be made closer to release. Enjoy :3 RELIUS CLOVER *Updated 11/6(Matches)* Shadow(Relius) vs Masashi(Valk) TORI(Relius) vs Hima(Valk) Q(Relius) vs Nao(Valk) So heres my opinion: From the few videos I've seen, this looks like its in Valk's favor pretty well. Wolf Form is relentless and the constant hit and runs with things like [W]j.A and 5A make it VERY hard for Relius to gain the amount of space needed to properly set himself up to use Ignis effectively. Keep in mind, if either Ignis or Relius get hit just once, Ignis HAS to retreat meaning Relius just lost half his strengths. Now there are a few things that make it not quite so clean cut as some of Ignis' attacks do have Super Armor meaning she will absorb the hit and just keep going and she will not be forced to retreat after the recovery. Biggest threat to Valk in Wolf form is going to be Ignis' Wheel attack which is called Id Haas I believe. It has Super Armor, is fast and goes about 3/4s of the upper part of the screen which can hinder our Wolf movement just briefly enough for Relius to run in and try to get some pressure going. But this is bulletproof as Relius moves quite slow so you can just back up and wait it out. Another thing is that Valk's mixup on Oki vs Relius' mixup on Oki is much more in Valk's favor as it stands now. Relius has no reversals except for his Spot Dodge which is a true reversal I believe but this is risky due to it not being Invincible the entire time though its recovery so you can just OS on it making it hard to use on wake up. So outside of that and Backdashing(Not sure how good his is as I've seen mixed results with it), Relius doesn't good defensive options meaning he has to block Valk's ridiculous mixup. Likewise though, Valk has awful defensive options and Relius has AMAZING pressure potential in the corner meaning that Valk also has to block against Relius which makes this a very momentum based matchup. With Valk's incredible Mobility and really strong Air dominance, this matchup seems like its gonna be frustrating for Relius to pick up any momentum if he can't create the necessary space and time to get Ignis out safely and use her effectively. I'd say 6-4 Valk :3

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?12709-Valkenhayn-BBCS2-gt-Extend-Changes-Discussion-Thread&p=1188688#post1188688 Its kinda late but there is a compiled list of Valk's CS2>Extend changes. Look them over, discuss things, I'm working to make the Valk Forums more sociable and get conversation going more often. http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?12710-EXTEND-vs-Relius-Clover&p=1188704#post1188704 Also added a Relius Matchup Thread for discussion on the character since we have no CS2 counterpart. I'll make the rest of the Extend matchup threads closer to release but feel free to discuss anything about Valk/Relius in that thread. Hopefully this can start some chit chat and get these boards a bit more lively again :3

As by forum request, I'll list the Changes to Valk from CS2 to Extend. There aren't TOO many changes as hes rather unchanged but there are at least some to discuss. "+" means a Buff, "-" means a Nerf, "=" means really neither one, just a change. I'll also add my own thoughts on some of them to help spark conversation. + j.C has reduced landing recovery allowing for new combo routes. = 3C now Emergency Techable BUT it is also able to be Special Cancelled on Hit/Block now. Valk both loses old combo routes while gaining new ones. = [W]5B has had its Head Invincibility changed from Frames 7-12 to ending before the Active Frames start. My Thoughts: I'd estimate its from 3-6 now. Technically a Nerf, but due to the nature of the change, this will allow us to trade a lot in the AA situations and still pick up the combo off of CH Trade in a majority of cases. + On Aerial Hit, 236A(Nacht Jaeger) will cause Blowback away from Valk with a large increase in Untechable time allowing for followups in or near the corner. My Thoughts: GREAT change to him, lets us get long range confirms off of 3C and gives us much better Oki compared to hitting it after a 5C as on Standing hit, you're barely + on hit so Mixing up after can be risky. + 236B~B(Weiss Jagd) got a P2 Buff. Not sure how much it got improved, but given that 3C>236B probably doesn't work anymore, this will be harder to utilize effectively. Makes hitting 236B empty more rewarding. - [W]j.214A/B(Eisen Wolf) now has had its Attack Level reduced. This translates to less Blockstun which is the Nerf. Also supposedly worse Proration but not confirmed yet. My Thoughts: As it is now, its about +5/+6 on normal Block in CS2. Even if it got reduced to a Level 2 Attack(Its Level 4 now), this would still put Valk at Neutral on Normal block. If its been changed to a Level 1, then it will be about -2 meaning its still hard to impossible to punish it without an IB. Not as harsh of a Nerf as people may think, its just that this move was broken as shit in CS2 so its a fair change. -[W]236D Command Grab(Himmel Wolf) Now does only 1000 Damage. In CS1, it did 2300; In CS2, it does 1500 so they've reduced the Damage EVEN further reducing our overall Damage potential off of it. Also apparently has longer whiff recovery, not sure how much though. My Thoughts: This is Valk's biggest Nerf but it still isn't too bad as everyone with a Command Grab outside of Tager got big Nerfs to their respective Grabs. Bang's prorates like a bitch now meaning he gets really poor damage for the Meter needed. Hazama lost its invincibility and due to his combo/chain Nerfs, he gets much less off of this now. Platinum's is still just the flat 1500 and no combo after. Combo Damage for this is gonna be overall changed to something like 3-3.5K in the corner now. Those are all the ones I know of. I know there was a note saying that 2C AND [W]j.B had reduced hitstun but both of those have been confirmed not true and those moves remained unchanged. If you know of any I missed and can provide proof/good reason behind it, I'll add it. Other than that, discuss anything about his changes here. Debate my thoughts if you feel like it as I put them there purely for the purpose of igniting conversation so go nuts :3

If you're having issues getting past certain parts of combos, I'd suggest isolating that part of the combo and working only that part till you get motions down for what you need at that specific part, then try integrating it back into your full combos. So I dunno how easy that is for Rachel as her combos are weird as shit, but if you can figure out a way to isolate the trouble spots and focus on them, it makes it a lot easier to get them down consistently since you can just repeat the focal point over and over instead of having to do the whole combo and then drop it once and then have to do it again and get frustrated.

Bitch please, I OCV'd you with Phoenix on point, get on my level :3

Fuck if I know, I've only ever met 3 other Valk players and that was at EVO and 2 of them were Canadians :3 But I'd say TheBiter is better than me honestly.

At least I hit my damn combos :3

Oh theres no need to apologize for having questions. If you're willing to learn and ask questions, I'm more than willing to explain things multiple times and in multiple ways if it helps cause sometimes if you don't ask, you just can't figure it out effectively :3 Also this is a Beginner Thread, questions are always welcome.

Updated the first post(Albeit quite late, sorry:v: ) with everything in the thread up to the last post. I know of a few stragglers that haven't been posted that I'll hunt down later. If I recall, the only ones that I haven't seen in the thread are the A-cho matches so I'll find those eventually. With there being a lot videos than I thought coming out for Valk, I'll be more frequent with updates and posting videos since hes become a much more popular character now compared to some(Poor Mu, I think I've seen 2 matches of her ) And once the holidays start, I'll more downtime to research the character more in depth and start redoing some of the threads and make it Extend friendly.

Its kinda true though, yeah its annoying when people are stupid but running NCI brackets is hardly as rage inducing as other things that happen:v:

Yeah I know the input isn't a plink by definition but it was the easiest way to describe how I do it as I've always had a weird way of doing things so its hard to describe. Its not a technical plink but the its the same concept of pianoing the necessary buttons to get the inputs out as fast as possible. So while the technical term "plink" doesn't correctly apply in terms of what its used for, the concept oh HOW you do the inputs can apply just as effectively...If that makes no sense, I'm sorry:v:

[W]5B>j.D~B is a bit of a hard link when it's late in the combo obviously. The way I do it is I hit the Wolf 5B, tap 9 to jump forward, then I kinda plink D~B so he turns back into Human and the j.B comes out as soon as possible. It's hard to explain the timing, you gotta try it to get used to it. Alternatively, you could do the [W]5B>j.AAA>j.D~C>Konig Flug ender. Not any different difficulty wise but it's different enough to be a preferred route for some people. Same condor applies after the third j.A, hit 9, then plink D~C to connect the j.C. It's really just a practice thing, you'll get it soon :3

I've never been to Oregon so I dunno if there are any parts of the drive that would go by the mountains :3

If you ever play a Dante online with an Arthur team, they always have him 2nd, get zoned out for 10 seconds, tag in Dante and I just do nothing and see how many times they mess up Teleport(usually about 3-5 times) and then once they get it, I just hit them with S and combo them with Arthur which unheard of to online players :3 Bad online Dantes are my favorite matchup :3

For the translated proration data AXIS posted, is it accurate that Sledge has super armor now?? I can't read any Japanese so I'm curious. The original looks like it's it would be more accurate as the 1500 being the damage off of a charged BSledge. But again I can't read it so I'm just guessing logically based on the properties of the move.

I know it snows in Oregon which is my main concern. I'd like to avoid driving an SUV with 6 people in it through snow :3 I just dunno how much longer it would take to use 101 instead of I-5. i know it wouldn't snow on 101 since its all coastal. But if its a 6 hour add on to the already long ass drive, Its gonna be a hard choice:v:

So the NorCal drivers(Me and Crosell) are wondering whats the easiest way to drive up there. As its getting into the winter months, we're both worried about snow so we're wondering if theres a simple way to avoid it all together. Would taking 101 the whole way avoid any hazardous conditions like this? We don't mind driving a little bit longer if it means its a smooth ride the whole way.

I think Nate would be the better one :3

You sure you're not just oblivious to the trolling that is directed towards you?? :3

Doubt that works anymore given the lowered hitstun on [W]j.B but they gave us the j.C relaunch as a compromise :3 I kinda wish this combo maker thingy would calculate Heat Gain as thats way more frustrating to figure out than damage:v:

You'd have to use character knowledge and do a bit of math to figure out how legit the combos actually are. Know the parts that usually work like(i.e, 2C>6B grounded works while 2C>6C grounded doesn't) and then look at the hitstun scaling as the combo goes, apply the hitstun reduction from the Proration to the untechable time of the attack you just hit then compare if the reduced untech time is enough for the next move to hit. Its a really cool thingy honestly, I could have a lot of fun with this and it lets me apply ideas without having to do the tedious work :3

You can always go for the traditional use for it to get more damage off of things like his Command Grab. Given I think it only does like 1000 damage now, it'd be worth it. [W]236D>[H]2C>6B>236B>RC>2C>6C>TK j.214B>2D>[W]236B>j.236B>7CD>[H]j.C>Land 2A>5B>2C>j.B>dj.B>j.C Theoretically this should work the Bonus Proration works well enough in our favor to get the j.C>2A>5B part. Also given how you don't use a lot of Wolf Meter for the combo, you might even be able to get the Wolf ender Masashi likes to use. [H]2A>5B>2C>j.D>[W]j.B>falling j.A>Land 5B>j.AA>j.B>2C>j.B>Land D>Meaty 6B That would give you more meter that the basic air ender too but just at the expense of a bit more Wolf Meter.

You're lucky...All 3 of my cats are chatty as all hell:v: Its cute till its 6am and they wanna get the bird outside and keep waking me up though :3