TD

Unfortunately he has never, ever left... Something about the new tier list makes me uneasy. Besides nu (which in curious why Dora thinks she's actually a and not s), I wonder just how large the gaps between the tiers are, or will be in the future.

This was not in regards to the current topic, but in regards to kiba's unorothodox pressure bit, of which I forgot to quote.

Rachel can sj 3d to get away and to the ground faster. She can summon a pumpkin instead, j236c at certain angles, or try to get away. She has no invul moves and would have to guess correctly to escape with advantage. The options are there, but they are all offensive moves. Close range tsubaki tools are strong against rachel.

as the 'prototype' mu, i'm pretty sure she is the worst, due to the system mechanics and her not getting certain important tools yet like a faster 5c. neutral back then for her was very difficult, still doable but she just lacked several options to make her more consistent. oki was good though, until people started figuring alot of her stuff out and they became gimmicks mixed with legit setups. she was still one of the best primer breakers at the time and her damage was absolutely insane, which made her viable. basically she couldnt really compete against most oners because of her steins (and people still not discovering her fully at the time), and rushdown usually had faster moves than her, so it was a game of attrition for her, where she could win if she played patiently and got a good hit.

That particular nerf does. She got invul on some of her persona move startups, not sure how that will work out. Karn has gotten way better with near instant actives so it likely will help at least once against projectiles. And her offense got better, giving her more of a rushdown character feel, so she could be all over that yukiko once she gets in. Ninja'd

Besides corner combos and 5c(1) jb delay jc 6b and RC, there aren't much. Anything involving jb/jc land that puts you in point blank works, as well as anything involving air hit gad leis.

I sort of agree with this. Sort of in a nicer tone though lol. It's just easier for everyone, and technically it's already less to type so why go the long way. The less the move in question is described the less everyone on the room is going to get it. Anyway, the translation is [4]6H.

You need antibiotics.

Stuff involving his normals looks good. Stuff involving déjà vu though seems gimmicky... Without task c most of this stuff seems like it could be disrespected or blocked. Most stuff involving task a prime just doesn't seem that strong to me. Yrc is a saving grace for this char. Not sure if that is such a good thing though.

You can try 2k slight delay task c déjà vu yrc as they are OTG. It will kick them up faster, and if it whiffs you still get the yrc.

She's more of a midrange zoner now with options fullscreen, as opposed to an all around zoner, which would have been ok if steins were harder to use. Where steins before meant staying in the same position meant getting possibly lamed out in 2 seconds for several characters, essentially making pressing XD a great avenue for momentum, setting a stein now will still force movement from the foe, likely moving closer to her, and she can then tag them with a safe normal as opposed to an unsafe special. many of her physical attacks have gotten safer or remained the same, further proving this point, as well as her up close and midrange offense getting a decent deal better. Its safe to say that her gameplan has been drastically overhauled , however I think she is still very viable right now and at least my interest in dat ass has been renewed. Everything about her is pointing to the midrange game, with the classic murakumo "options fullscreen". Nu already has the d spam down anyway and we already have way too any alternate characters (Noel's) with similar movesets. MU seems more original than ever before and still well rounded.

She looks badass... Let me get this right, that used to be a guy? Seems like a good fit as a fighter.

Ok even if it is (and I'm not saying it is or isn't because I don't know), you can't deny that they are into the stuff that they draw and create. And it may seem unreal and disgusting to us but really we are doing the same thing in a different way. All the billboards and music videos and magazines of beautiful people. The final products may be different but the message is the same: sex sells. It sells movies, it sells books and it clearly is very prominent in video games around the world. My point about the vending machine was more about the age, jailbait and all that which may be controversial to us but completely natural to others.

Hmm, well he does live in a country where selling underage female's dirty panties in a vending machine is a completely normal thing. I don't think this would make him a deviant over there at least. And as said it has gotten to the point of desensitizing most people who consume it on a semi-normal basis, as anything would. We do have control over what we view at least.

if celica didn't get this or something similar, it's harder to believe anyone else would.

He still has the exact same issue vs zoners right...? If hazama is still at the top of his threat list I'm sure rachel, mu, litchi, amane, (koko?) still give him a very hard time. Hard to believe he's top or that of he is that he is going to stay there.

When did he leave? Lol He thought he left.

What kind of half-cocked threat is that? (Pun intended.) You just want a persona.

Jump or mash depending on meter and how you think the foe will react. You can fd previous moves of you suspect a grab. His backdash is slow enough to be punished if expected but may get him out if the foe doesn't think he will do it and does something that loses to it. Dp works if they aren't already point blank. I think bedman is a spacing and setup char. He initially needs space to set up tasks a b and c be it in neutral or as oki. He gets that by doing tricky air movement like triangle jumps to confuse the foe on the horizontal plane, and using his long range poke and anti air to get his oki started early on hit. If he gets a fraction of space to use task a he does it, matchup dependant. Once task a is out he plays timer with the foe, it's a great disruption tool fast, hits twice and forces certain movement from the foe or he/she risks getting set up on. He uses tasks a and 2/3h to get the foe respecting his game along with his anti airs. Then, if he can, he whiffs task b or c to have stronger options in neutral. Rinse and repeat. At any time he is threatened he hopes he has enough meter for fd, shield, yrc, overdrive. And hopes its enough. On those he can't setup on he really sticks to strongest pokes (fs, js, 6p, task a) and air movement until he can get in or get a knockdown. Doesn't mean the rest of his moves are useless, dash parry can be decent in certain matchups, so can 6c and so on, really depends on the foes char. Basically the more moves you let bedman do the more screwed you are. So bedman has to keep moving so the foe would be more worried about how he is going to move instead of waiting to punish a predictable attack

as said wail was never really good as a reversal, it was more of a combo ender but since vanilla it was nerfed drastically and honestly just got worse even since already being bad. when diarahan had no hitbox it was still terrible. projectile invul helped in so few situations and using the super usually meant you would be punished harder than the hp gained. getting a hitbox and possible a fullscreen knockdown (or close one in the corner) will have a more consistent hp gain and potential in general due to an hp increase for her. as for mind charge. I guess they want all the mind charges used... frankly we do not need 3 versions and should just get one that gives her all the benefits like in vanilla, it was not broken. but anyway, it likely would depend on the situation and how much sp is lost from using b and sb, and how much hp she was at when using the super. example at 100% she wont want to lose out on all that potential blue health.

does anyone know what the afterimages portion of 5c pertains to...

technically litchi only has one projectile compared to the rest, and the set it and forget it approach has been well to her when she was (admittedly rarely) on the low end of the tiers in previous games. now that she is high once again, it is debated once again and has been for awhile. it's not completely unwarranted when fighting zoners; however it's just too safe in general. there still was a period where she was vulnerable to getting destroyed, and that was when she set the staff without launching. that was supposed to be the unforgiving, balanced part of her gameplan; being completely staffless. I believe the devs have realized that it simply was not enough. they gave her a staffless heat reversal and so this is no longer needed. i'm a little confused because it seems like both of you guys are agreeing that litchi's shit was too safe before. it was. it has been changed. in a decent way that doesnt hurt the character too much. because this is the mu thread.. yeah, HAS OD yata been changed at all?

Bad defense, better pokes have lengthy recovery, movement leaves a bit to be desired, very momentum based (needs an initial hit to get started), task.a can be played around, big hurtbox allowing stronger combo and mixup on him, seals have exploitable weaknesses, pressure is simpler to beat than other characters, etc... Quite a few things hurt him a bit which adds up to something not necessarily crippling... More or less it's like playing with a dented leg. I think his biggest issue is that he can be played around because of his girth. He also lacks proper reward in several situations, and although he has what can be considered above average damage per hit, his combos are very short which reduces damage output.

Sb eyes might open up some interesting combo paths and pre-oki setup now. Today is the day of revelation.

uh yeah every zoner in this game is a hybrid... each and every zoner in this game can technically win a round off of close range. it may not be as easy, may require more reads and damage. they may not have a universal tool to beat several options like some of the stronger rushdown. however everyone including amane can put in the work up close. the only two things preventing this usually is that they have the better zoning tools (usually needing to use every tool they have), and that should they mess up their defensive options are especially unforgiving. in fact, minus nu and lambda, every single zoner needs to get in and rushdown at some point in the round, or they will find their tactics exploited, at least at intermediate level of play and above.