TD

Other top class neutral chars should give her a run for a money, which honestly isn't a lot of characters. The top tiers should be fine dealing with her stuff and can do their own gameplan. Yosuke should be the most problematic because she has a lot of great angles on her range attacks but can't pin him down. Yu is just as well rounded as she is. Most other characters get their game disrupted by her since her zoning, rushdown and defense are all very good Besides them I think Marie's presents could give her a little worry but mitsuru can punish Marie's recovery on the ground easy. Aigis maybe because she can zip around. That's it

Litchis combos are more or less intermediate; it's the situational awareness of her combos and all of her options, both inside and outside of her combos, that make her difficult. Mastering her though will usually make her more like "choose the right combos and you should be fine" as opposed to any character specifics (basically all her combos are universal) or possible combo drops. Litchi'a neutral is not easy which could contribute to her high execution opinions. She is very matchup dependent. Tsubaki may not be very good but her gameplan is more simplified than litchis.

She is good because her traps can't be killed and they serve purposes similar to Rachel's summons. Except her chocolate can't be killed and she doesn't have a projectile that moves with her (though clouds come very close to this). Her anti punish moves are also legit. Looks like she was given just the right tools, not to powerful but certainly strong.

As one of the fastest runners in bb, that is a great idea for tsu, but your timing has to be in point. You probably can punish with max range 236c or even setting up the fireball charge to get plus frames. Not the best idea but it is + or free combo on hit. If you aren't on point and kune recovers faster than you, neither character can really outpoke each other, but in general, I think kune's buttons can beat tsu's in neutral and he has a few good options, even at midrange vs her. So basically it is a good idea to really expect this move at full screen and be ready to run in. Just beware of his other full screen options, with his j6d, spider being his best offensive tools; cloud summon being his passive zoning tool once out, his teleports (dashes, command ports, wall port) for evasive movement, and his 6d for preventing horizontal movement. If you let him set any of these up, it is a hard journey for tsu and she needs to hope she doesn't meet any bugs on her way to victory. She definitely needs to get in and stay in vs this guy.

no one knows yet.

It's you. No one is better.

j2b is an overhead then? I thought it was not. if so this is good stuff.

236c is corner combo fodder. and anywhere combo ender. not sure if it is good on block. as ender, allows a farther away summon attempt or a dash in, create space etc. marie has a few options here that dont necessarily need to be offensive. can do weather super from 236c. 236d... has potential. not sure what it is for yet. maybe it can beat wierd projectiles. oki is not recommended, explodes as you recover basically. 236cd explodes right on a grounded target's hurtbox. great for whiff punishes because it is free summon or weather on hit. block is ok at further range. I believe it will whiff jumping and knocked down foes. yes 214aa releases cocoa faster. no point in delaying unless you're doing some bag mixup or something. 214ad is a stance cancel, it is fast enough and cancels from mostly all ground normals if not all. basically it is a pressure reset and a safety button for summoning in neutral. trick the foe and then anti air them, summon or just block. so yeah, how I play her. sort of like rachel I guess. get space and setup. first she will poke her way to respect midrange by using excellent spacing skills. her 5b, 2b, jb to establish control, and her bag feints to bait the foe into attacking you while 'summoning'. gain meter and try to summon as soon as you get a good chance to. all summons are good enough to shift momentum in her favor almost immediately once placed safely. then you just play around them. remember you have cocoa, cloud, and the eye for summons. 236cd is a great use of meter to get respect if you have it. once you have 50 heat you have the option to change weather. which do you feel per matchup will benefit the most and/or hinder your foe's actions? weather strategy! remember that sunny weather gives supers damage a boost, cloudy gives her two clouds and her dp and throw gain paralyze status. rain gives passive healing and snow gives rather good passive meter. there is more but I am tired.

this is for the most part true for many people. if you can somehow block it on reaction, you are strong. for most of us it will have to be anticipated. it is easier to do in pressure if you know the foe's strings and also if you use barrier block on the first two attacks. I actually said reaction without thinking about that one, sorry. you should be anticipating this. for you, goblin, I wouldn't worry about this right now. you should try to manuever the character to your liking a little more first. and blocking those icecars.

jin only has his standing, close range 6a and the normal air moves as overheads. any time you must block in neutral, it should be low, just because fullscreen icecar. you should be trying to 6a those jump ins, and his 6a just requires reaction that you can get in training. you can block high but there isnt really a legit point, unless youre expecting a jump in.

Both of them or just minazuki? Are teleports safe? Like I know he does a hit or whatever but if we can ib it and punish we could do feint cancels to bait it. The bnb's though, that could be a serious problem. So is the normals bit. I wonder if he can out space her dp's.

Damn that was the exact reason I posted earlier. ._. Indeed it tracks... With meter, eyes eating projectiles and all her traps and weather, I highly doubt Marie will be losing any zoning wars. It probably will have numerous uses. Not sure if it tracks them in the air though. It's fast enough on both startup and recovery to be good but I don't think you get much momentum for it on block; so it's probably just a good zoning tool that can technically be applied to every part of her game in some way. It's exciting to say the least.

Marie can sort of bait aa's with her jd and possibly air turn jc on top of universal options. Plus she has 2 air dp if the foe starts getting wise. She should be ok here. Some if not 2bs are also air unblockable...

As long as an air normal is done it can be anti aired in most cases. In most fighting games there are very few air invul moves besides dp's or something similar to full body invul, these are pretty much the only moves that cannot be aa'd once the air character's hurtbox comes in contact with the foe's hitbox. The move is slow enough to be countered if it is expected, definitely not her best attack but that movement is so good. It's basically good on block or hit and whiff should be hard to punish if used properly. So it should mostly be punished on startup or by characters who can deal with the movement on reaction like adachi fullscreen super, Liz hyper beam, mitsuru, etc Oh, I'm sure it is quite easy to anti air as well unless it has a weird trading hitbox or something. As time passes people will probably be anti airing this easily unless more strategy is found.

Sounds like legit stuff. I agree that down the line she is definitely going to be a very diverse character with a lot of cool trick. I'm surprised no one has said this about the chocolate! In Soviet Russia, chocolate licks you. Also, the second hit of 236x is an overhead I believe, which should lead jntonthensame thing as 5bb but possibly even more potent because it moves her forward more and is an overhead: 236x late omc 5a

Nerf bat strikes again. This time, crippling kagura's wrists What is it with devs nerfing bad characters.

This character is soo interesting. I cannot wait to see how she develops. I noticed... She seems to have really good defense for a zoner. Her DP is so damn fast! Also can be done in the air, which seems like a trait shared with higher tier characters (not that this solely breaks them or her, just an observation). And since her dp super can be used in the air as well, she's never without options. Not to mention, do super doesn't need persona. She has her own moves without persona so presumably she should still be able to zone decently well while persona broken, especially with snow or rain or even cloudy weather because they all seem to do nothing but bolster her defensive presence in different ways. She also has jc, I'm having a lot of fun with this move. The movement seems super useful for her game and should see a decent amount of use when the Marie is playing keep away, which is a little harder to do than it is in Blazblue. It's slow to start, but that shouldn't hurt it too much as it is plus on block (is this a consistent thing?) and moves her further depending on her jump height. She can air turn and go the other way for full screen presense/aa bait, or mix it up with jd and jb depending on the situation. Traps are straightforward and overall each one is so good. Still experimenting with the eye though, see if it can be used to pull the foe in if they are pressuring her. I fought a labrys today and tried this but it didn't really pull her in. The eye was behind the labrys. She's set to be very good I feel it. It's still day 1 though.

Her stance cancel pressure seems legit. She can cancel from most normals and the recovery is decent enough to possibly use a ranged attack. Plus she can kinda move the foe where she wants them using an eye or her normals. She's probably going to want to frame trap or move the foe away from her to start getting some respect. Then she can get trick ly setting out cocoa during pressure and stuff. Also seems to have decent stagger pressure with her normals. 5aaa being -1 is sort of crazy. 2b seems like the best stagger normal but my bet is that 5b had the most options on block, which is just as well. Arrows do seem sort of useless right now, however I do feel they will get a little more use eventually. 2d covers a good area midrange. At her 236x moves safe on block? They seem so with the backflip done after. Overall very excited about this char, she has a dark and gloomy, yet whimsical feel that I love. EDIT: 5bb can be cancelled whenever after 5b, even right before she lands: this is going to be some scary mixup with meter. She can late 5bb for frame trap, 5bb whiff throw, 5bb late omc overhead or land 2a/5a. Not sure if she can do crossups yet but this is some strong stuff. Edit2: plenty of her moves leave her airborne on OMC. So I may require meter but I think Marie is going to have plenty of ways to go into high/low once she is in. Snow is going to be the offense lover's best bet. Now whether she will get a reward is another question...

Doubt it. Marie is already tons more interesting and competitive. I'm going to be m.i.a for now. Maybe once this char is figured out more I'll come back and try again.

So guys. What's her ideal neutral setup looking like right now? Weather/cocoa/cloud? Maybe one of these are good enough to be used solo or as a sole priority?

On the money. Probably 6-4 mitsuru. Just don't block anything coming from the neutral, which shouldn't be too hard. A good mix of reactionary offense and some character knowledge (how rise's neutral projectiles work) is all mitsuru needs on the most basic level. Rise doesn't have enough buttons that demand respect, and her persona is a sitting duck anytime she tries to attack. Easy to 5d or droit. And rise doesn't have much in the air outside of her jb which as mentioned just an above average one that can be beaten.

Everyone does well against shadows, not just rise. Liz can straight kill them in one combo, consistently. Once again rise only gets a chance (that dwindles by the day) at a chance for 5k. That's not a typo, assuming you get the unblock you still have to hit most/all of the notes perfectly... I'm probably moving on today once I get Marie, but Anne is right. The reward is great but there are too many factors against rise and all her gimmicky setups. If she didn't have note oki, I would barely even consider her a setup character at all. Not to mention I've never heard of a set play character? (and I know what set play itself means, just not why or how rise is this sort). Delay 22a on oki can be disrespected, not exactly on reaction but it isn't hard to do. Frankly I'd stick to note or scan+disk oki and use lighting every once in a match. On a positive note, lightning does set up a wall of sorts. Once it rains down she can setup a 5d or 2d against even zoners because their projectiles will get eaten. If they cannot teleport, possess a beam, or otherwise get to you while bypassing the lightning, she basically gets a free run in and mixup. That's like the best thing about her IMO besides actually getting a scan, this is a fairly consistent thing against most characters. Same thing of they are caught blocking lightning in the air, except if they are close they can hit her out of 5d recovery if she isn't careful to do it early enough. So delay lightning oki does have it's merits if it happens to be respected. 2d and 2c can be used instead of 5d. And agreed on her gatlings being good. I'm not sure if they are top tier like that, they could be I guess? The only issue I have with her pressure is that it mostly seems to be either frametraps or sneaking in highly plus moves like 2c. After that she seems rather tame. Crossups aren't too hard to block and she doesn't have the best throw game out there. Thank goodness for jb. Maybe I'm missing something here though.

Forget my twilight coffee, this is all the energy I need in my life! She sounds very fun. Can she compete with naoto for annoying trap character? Only time will tell! But she sounds great so far.

He could only combo off it since cp, I don't think it will hurt him too much. But it will leave a bruise.

^this, never thought I'd see TOO much boobs. While not a problem, throwing a double d on any female for the sake of sales is extremely unoriginal and stale at this point. It's like eating too much of the same thing,soon the very sight of that food drives a person mad. I wouldn't mind a small break from all these damn tits. Can't we get a modest girl just once more before continuing the fan service? Just one more time please. Just a size reduction or longer pants or something else modest I dunno. We don't need a nun, just you know... A modest girl with some damn morals or something. Maybe I'm crazy but seeing the same double d's in anime, games, movies, commercials damn give it a rest.