TD

5c, 2c, max range 5b (before the mic throw), 236b, any time you have space etc. quite a few moves and scenarios, but it's all just gimmicks she cycles through. if the char cant punish you in a full second, this move will come out. same strat with 22b and sb, with a and sb being the mains, and 22b for if you expect backward movement. the 3 rains are all also situational aa's.

That's too bad. Who knows when the next patch is going to take place. We have a long time to deal with this rise most likely. I find it good to alternate between okis. Sometimes I'll do 236a for like throw setups, sometimes 236b for delay tech punish, I believe throwing a 5b will yellow beat and notes detonate allowing a further combo, and if they tech immediately the remnants of 236b will keep them in blockstun. 22a is the most preferred but can be beaten which is why I suggest alternating in the first place. 22a is preferred. Depending on how the foe likes beating 22a, 22b/sb do the same thing but further and homing respectively. 236d is sometimes used, small vacuum, can be safe at certain ranges both in frames and beating some dp's. Lastly rosette field can be used as an oki tool. No explanations here, once it's out you have a free get in pass. Edit; forgot 2c which can be snuck in on oki sometimes, another free setup. I go about my oki thinking how or if they are going to beat my 22a, and then I'll start doing delay oki to keep them guessing. Like ...3c delay 236b or delay 22a etc. getting them in 22a grants you a free setup or mixup. I'd setup a wacky 5d or something here. No great setups yet but I'm working on it. As for shadow rise setup posted, I'm not understanding the concept. Can specials be canceled into each other in berserk mode or something? 214a isn't really a blockstrings tool so that's why I'm asking.

not fatally towed but she is definitely going to struggle a lot in zoning. She kinda has to play rps except her risk/reward is not in her favor. She can fight and even get in vs zoners bit it's going to take all more work that expected from a character like this. Hr dash is cool but it's no saving grace. that's just it, regular shields are too slow for what they are worth and the conditions and costs are also too heavy for what it is worth. It is not easy to maintain sometimes, and the small projectile doesn't give her much but a persona card or 500 damage at best. It is still very early but I'm getting similar vibes. She will definitely be on the lower end unless something really good is found.

In my experience with the internet, I'm going to go on a limb and say you're trying a bit of levity here. buffs would seriously be nice. I know the game is new and all but it is clear she is going to have a lot of problems with her tall ass persona taking all day to go away after basically any attack. It's seriously like either use one of rises bad normals or use a persona attack and risk it completely backfiring. Not to mention how much rise needs it. Whether we get better or drop the char, this stuff isn't going away, and it means with her other weaknesses her otherwise good neutral takes a big hit. Close range though it seems she has all the tools to sneak in some gimmicks. I like 236b in pressure, it is a free reset or at least the foe can't punish you at all after. So if you read a back dash you can setup 2c or something. And approach runs the risk of eating a 5b or 2b with note buffs. How do you guys feel about shields? Way too slow and the benefits (and costs) seem skewed to me. I'm thinking in the long run the sb shield will be the one of choice if they are used at all.

She can't seem to fight yukiko, the resident zoner, becaus persona reliance and recovery. So I'm going to assume any full on rushdown or fullscreen zoners are going to break her persona real fast... Which when you think about it, is sort of everyone. If she's not a rush down, and not a zoner, and can't setup without space then... What exactly is she lol. She is not easy to play in any sense of the word ._.

Thank you kind sir.

Clearly a troll. Her stuff was confirmed ages ago.

Sounds good, thanks. If they can air tech that's ok because it leaves her with disk + shield/lightning/2c/d

Which Garu and bufu combos give poison to end? I don't see them on the wiki. Close sb bufu is obvi but the others I'm not getting.

What do you guys do for close oki, just setup or use the notes?

2c in general is good. I'm beginning to suspect it to be her best ground normal. I still need more time for practice, but the pros are that it's massively plus on block, covers the entire ground in front of rise horizontally, can be used as a midrange, close and far tool because it has no minimum range from my experience. Persona recovery is decent, to the point where she can throw out other tools fairly quickly using the bit to recover. Mu wishes she had steins like this. Flaws seem to be few but big. Large recovery and strictly a ground attacking move. The foe can jump on the bit though and get locked into hit or blockstun, there's no air unblock however. So far in this situation I can't get much but an air combo, but that will change when a good juggle corner carry combo is found. Lastly like most of rise persona attacks, persona is left there until move ends, which makes it difficult to use vs some chars like zoners. I really like this move though

How did some people get adachi before his official release? Am I missing something, he's still available?

doing 5c by itself is hardest. doing dash 2b is the next best thing. doing a 2b though means another normal must be taken out so the combo wont drop. otherwise these combos are like 1f links and need a microdash aka hard. without the dash, 5c is most consistent when canceled from 236cd as the last 1 or 2 hits from the disk finish. l believe there are 8 hit total but can be less.

new combo video thread has a throw omc going into standard combo route midscreen. throw omc dash 5c 22a (lightning hits on the way up). it was done on yu. when i tried on yukiko lightning does not hit on the way up. might depend on character fat. edit: silly me, looks like she does a dash 5c after 236cd. i'm going to try that

this. if anything she is more of a setup char than a zoner. her strongest options from afar grant her alot of plus frames to get in without getting dp'd. she can zone in a sense that she has a ton of screen control but the recovery on alot of her attacks mean she needs to cover them with something. she cant continue pressure for long from afar. I think getting lightning, notes, or shield out is absolute priority. though notes are kinda meh it does give her another option in the neutral. these options will make the foe think twice about coming forward, but not for long. 2d is decent as well but that recovery... not sure what she does if she gets pushed out because midrange is horrid for her I think. so for right now it seems like once you’re in you have to make the most of it. still day 1 or 2 so she needs some more analysis.

first day ragequit! spectrasonic. you were warned

I dont miss ct litchi. she was annoying as hell to play.

litchi was not terrible in cse dude... she was lacking in a few things that she had before. that is all. she wasnt underwhelming or anything, and could still win matches. the only bad points about her were that her gameplan she had before had been nerfed. less corner carry, less daisharin. midscreen isnt the best for litchi but she has a very good neutral to fall back on. so she can set up oki and if it failed she would simply return to neutral. once you were in the corner like every version of litchi you might as well get comfortable. kokushi super returned and was absolutely nuts in cse, very few characters can escape the setups reliably and if they did, a new combo route was only practice away. a nigh inescapable super with 202 plus frames that on successful hit gave her 50 heat to do it again AND 4k plus is not a bad character. for all intensive purposes litchi has never been truly bad. I believe her worst version was ct and she was still ok there.

So how are you guys faring in neutral? I find her midrange game severely lacking. Her good normals are closed range and her best area seems to be far. Midrange 5b is less than desirable, need to test if max range is cancel into 5c. 2c feels ok but needs to be a read. Rock you b seems merely ok as a poke. And it puts out notes. Haven't tested any of her moves relative safety. I don't use no touching without a note out but even then it's hotbox is meh and it's slow. Midrange is seeming hard for her without a setup. Notes don't seem to help much right now, trying to use them like dizzy use her bubbles in gg, but hers feels more grounded and limited. Far range feels the best of course, you get at least one chance to setup. Her neutral here feels like litchi, so many god damn options and they all feel good to use. Scans cover so much space but put persona in a lot of recovery. C normals are decent projectiles and can be canceled faster though they are slow to start. Arrows cover strong spaces and also recover fast. Even with scan I'm not a huge fan of platinum disc recovery unless I'm missing something it doesn't seem like something you throw out often even with a scan. Shields work after some conditioning, I like their effects. What else... Her air attacks are definitely like litchi, the jc j2b duo and can use scans in the air, she won't be completely free airborne. Currently looking for some close range ideas, particularly pressure resets and mixup. Does she have anything here that is plus on block besides already out notes? I heard she has a fuzzy, I've tried it but can it be combined from? Supers seem combo ender-key except the satellite super, that is such a boss super

If only he had a throw counter. Successful hit equates to a judo flip and then some stabs or punches to the gut.

That's too bad about agi, loved those blue flames for oki. Oh well. Liz is even more passive now. It is harder to keep the foe where you want them which sort of contradicts the character as a whole. No more big girl damage hurts the most. What are we supposed to do? So far I have two game plans. Get fear paralyze and/or poison on the foe and pressure them depending on the ailment and character. I really like poison for her but it's still a little impractical. The passive damage synchronizes well with her rather passive play style and she becomes more akin to a zoner. Her pressure is really annoying now too you can't just be like "oh she 5c or 2c'd now die", she can keep on pressing buttons if she does the right moves at the right time, wasting time on that poison. It's still Liz though and she still sort of gimmicky but less so, so this could work. Parafear is a staple and strong, but she still lacks a big threat. Throw is still her strongest option though. It is easier to slip them in now. Even though 5d got nerfed she still has an ok throw mixup. Not much else to say here. Paralysis also affects her passive play style while fear is more momentum based and really good with her multiple frametraps. My other gameplan is using her neutral game to gain enough meter for death combos. This is hard against non shadow characters but doable. It requires us to really take bursts into account. The optimal, pretty much required scenario is us having a burst and the foe having none no time soon. Anything that depends on the foe is inconsistent within itself. Plus we need meter and execution. Going back to the neutral, she gained a few decent buffs. Zio is still good because she is one of the few characters with an instant beam. It's also more safe. Personally I like new b zio. With enough conditioning it allows her to get in better than agi would allow. It's more safe as well. Sb zio in awakening is clearly the best at this though and a decent neutral tool. Agi is less risky to throw out and the huge hitboxes still basically guarantee a mixup if you used the right flames come out. They IMO are in the same boat as he zio, except zio hitbox is better all around for getting people no matter where they are horizontally. I used to think of her as a passive grappler zoner hybrid but now she's like some sort of... Something. She requires innovation that's for sure. You guys can feel free to correct me on anything or share your own gameplans.

It's legit, but is It threatening? Enough, rather. Because being able to beat a DP in this game is good for oki. But what else can it do? You may be able to setup throws or other tricky stuff like empty jump if you ended with 5a instead of 5b. It gives them more time to press a button though. Or you can end the 5b in the middle if it's active instead of the end. Less time for them to mash and more time for a setup. Seems good though and worth doing up close. Better than maragidyne oki last game in the corner at least. Speaking of has anyone tried doing that yet?

ummmmmmm... why can rhythm super be mashed to get the buttons? it doesnt seem to matter how many buttons you press so long as the correct one is pressed at the right time... im mashing abc and getting all but the last note very consistently

I'm just salty about Liz still being shitty. You guys have good points though. He will need some time to develop, anyway. The whole needing awakening thing seems kinda lame, but fair.

Mmhmm. We'll see.