TD

That's completely fine, i'm just happy that you did it, and it looks very good. Thank you.

What do you mean by freeform? I'm not understanding what you're implying there. I take it that it means Rachel's zoning was pretty much do whatever you want in the past games which is far from the truth, as matchups played a huge role in what she could do at a given time. If you mean that her zoning just got a little more difficult without wind, needing to factor in more things as a whole then yeah I agree with that. Her zoning definitely did change, seemingly to collaborate with the new lotus moves. Doubtful they'd keep the old 236c with the lotus moves for example. For new ground lobelia trajectories it really looks like they wanted lobelias to be more focused on getting more sword iris hits, and also if the player wanted to hit full screen they would have to use a wind, which applies to all her tools now. Look at how 236a9d hits exactly full screen now, that wasn't a fluke. Lotus needs no explanation. S tier. And pumpkin/frog remained the same more or less.

derq, are you doing any of you shenanigans that you were talking about? please let us know how that turns out. also, doe zettou - ja work? l know its slow as hell, just want to confirm if it works.

yeah thats what l meant, 6b comes out sometimes and it completely ruins the combo. worth mastering imo. the second combo seems worth learning too for variety. dont forget guys pretty much all her corner carry combos still work in cp with a few variations to the combo (no more 5cc 236b dash 5cc for instance). if you cant do all the midscreen stuff yet, at least know the corner stuff so you can still play at least decently.

that sounds more like something that would go in a matchup thread. for the setups, if any of you start finding a bunch of new undiscovered tech, that would be pretty good. naturally, finding new stuff is encouraged. don't let my ramblings stop you, by all means, explore away! hard to say whether this would need a full thread or a section in another thread just yet. let's start something fun: if you guys can come up with over 7 different setups, be it old (must work) or new, a thread should probably be made. anything less and it gets a section. how does that sound? now, for some missing threads (critique, matchups, etc) l am wondering if l should just make them or wait for hard bread. what's the opinion on that?

l agree his oki is great and practical, but thats about it. from my experience, nearly everything else minus val tus is a gimmick or just common relius strats, and outside of OD and some changes to ignis l dont see the idea changing much. tus into whatever you want x n. l do see extremely gimmicky fullscreen unblockables though. geara nose and act are no longer required to activate behind relius so l see nose + lugia action happening once or twice.

you might want to post that in the right thread, sir... http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?17721-CP-Match-Finder-GG-Thread

Ordered like 4 days ago and my order shipped very close to midnight. It almost seems like they do last order to first. Weird way to go about it...

im kind of on the other end, l feel like he's near his peak as it stands. not that he doesn't have anything new, just that he may not have a huge amout left to discover. not that that is necessarily bad either. same for the setup thread, not sure what he has on oki thats so tricky besides + frames and OD. however that is up to you guys. if there is a lot of tricks and gimmicks then by all means, one can definitely be made.

...3c5d 8d dash 6a 4b dash 5b 6a 236a dash 3c (214c 5cc on normal starters) oki ... j3db jc dash 5b 6ad dash 5b 6a 236a dash 3c 214c (dash 6a 4b on normal starters) dash 5cc oki second is harder apparently with the 6ad bit. pretty sure you just need to buffer the dash during 6a's final bit of recovery. dont have the game yet for the corner loop. l think this combo has a rhythm to it though if that helps.

@necro: we should not add to the extend ones as these are two different games. even if one matchup between the two remained the same, it just wouldn't be a good idea, it's very confusing. and what l meant is someone to take charge of the matchups. someone to post new findings, spark discussion, someone with knowledge of the matchups and can invite other character specialists to help with particular matchup threads. now that, is a chatacter thread. quickly look at someone like lord knight's or kiba's matchup threads and you'll get the gist of what every thread should ultimately look like. @wakeupdp: your help would be much appreciated, thanks. sometime over the weekend l will start finding combos to post with videos. for now, since the game is out, a critique thread is in order.

So is everyone on board at the moment to pitch in and make this sub forum decent? No one has to decide today. There is a lot to do, and not everyone has the time or patience to do it. Hard bread is doing his share but I doubt he can do it all by himself. In particular we really really need a person who can find videos on YouTube and/or nico, the former being partly covered by the video posting thread. Combos I don't mind doing at some point. It'll be best to have two or three people working on the notations, damage and heat gain, and then there's the matchup threads that need to be filled as time goes on.

Neutral is pretty simple; find a way to get in using ignis. Relius can zone decently, however unless he's fighting another zoner (ignis shits on projectiles), he needs to get in and close the gap. 214a will put ignis midscreen from fullscreen. placing her between you and your opponent. from here, there are a few things you can do. It's going to require a bit of foresight, because the wrong attack will get ignis dismissed, or the foe will be able to run away or through her. ...214a will plow through projectiles and punish the startup of any attack the foeay be using. More likely than not it puts ignis behind the foe. Not extremely useful due to the cost of two 214a and needing even more meter to mount an offense. ...214c is the primary approach method. breaks a primer and is a lot of + ...4d stops people from jumping over 214c if theyve done so already ...2d stops people from trying to hit or go through her and allows an approach ...6d is fast and safe to use multiple times to discourage attacks. Allows a run in too with [66]d. These latter four moves will keep ignis in the foes face so that you don't have to 214a again. 214a is beatable if the foe can hit her before the recovery, puttin her in slow regen state and rendering you vulnerable. Some good things to do would be to launch her with 214a and IAD, daring the foe to hit her so you can punish; summoning her and waiting for the foe to come to you; discouraging setups using 214b; finally, good use of movement including dash barrier, super jumps, and the j.xd series as an alternate form of approach/keepaway. *** Rushdown gameplan depends almost entirely on whether ignis is active or not, and how much meter she has. Generally, if meter is close to full you can summon her; when low, dismiss her, with several variations depending on meter, ignis' regen state, and who he is fighting. If you manage to pressure before ignis out, there are a few things to keep in mind. Do I have ignis gauge? If so, get her out quickly using 214a or d (other moves will require some conditioning to do in a blockstring). If the gauge is low, stall with strings like 2a 2a 2a 5b 2c 6c. Strings like this regen a lot of gauge when in normal regen state and will get rid of slow regen state. Because all of his normals cancel into 214a, there is plenty of versatility in his strings. Even if the foe assumes a raw 214a and dp's, you can led ley instead which will likely give you a nice ch 3c combo. If ignis is otherwise inaccessible, be it by broken or slow regen state, running away is a decent option. The above string is good if you replace the 6c for a 3c, which allows you to retreat with impunity. From there, you won't have to wait long to re summon the doll, IF she didn't break. Once ignis is out, you have a good deal of freedom. Generally, relius has weak mixup. He makes up for that with amazing pressure, and the ability to make the foe think he's unsafe. Once the foe knows to do nothing but block, you can try to 50/50 using things like 3cd jump low air dash jb/2b, a grounded 6a/2b, among a few others. Again, mixup is not his specialty. Do not get discouraged if your very slow 6a gets blocked. It shows your foe can react to one of the slowest overheads in the game. More importantly it means your foe is willing to respect your pressure, making those air dash mixups more potent. 6d and 2d are your best friends here. One hit and two hits respectively, these moves make all of your normals more or less safe. 214a, b, and c needs time to setup but there are some offer mixup potential. 214d and 236d are really oki tools that need massive time to setup, but can be used sparingly in pressure. Try to only go for the unblockables as these are guaranteed damage. Throws are also important. With all the pressure he can dish out, a throw is unlikely to be escaped. Do NOT throw after you dismiss a low gauge ignis - this is so common, I can't tell you how many players I've seen blown up by attempting this. Remember, your foe isn't just blocking. He needs to look at your gauge, because that gauge pretty much dictates everything you do. Defense is obviously his weakest point. He wasn't designed to give up momentum very often. If he does, even with meter his defensive options are mediocre at best. His options are 236a(6/2d), gear/black ball super, and the general counter assault/jump/mash/backdash/barrier/instant block. His 5a and 2a are not good enough to make the cut. Not having a mash able normal is very bad for anyone, but especially for relius. Most of his standard options can be beaten by a safe jump or a throw. 236a should never be used without ignis, which, given the nature of the doll, isn't very often. Even with her out, 236a with 6 and 2d need to hit BEFORE the twirl is done, and 6d can be hit out of its startup leaving relius extremely vulnerable. Gear super can be jumped over and does crap damage. It does setup up unblockables though, and gives you time to setup whatever. Black ball super is safe outside of point blanks range and does 2k alone, but needs 50 additional heat and the corner to follow up. General options mostly lose to meaties or whatever the general counters are. That about sums up what I wrote then, covering most his tools. Besides normals, jxd attacks, and bel lafino which has a limited use. I didn't spell check, don't ask but it should be mostly fine anyway.

those are common mistakes. hopefully l can get that fixed for you right now as most of this stuff carries over like a boss. found the two posts. theyre long so l hope you like reading. very technical, very 'do this, do that'. gave them to the guy after he said he needed help writing the guide; pretty much wrote the guide myself and never heare from him again.... also funny anyway give me a few seconds to find my iphone so l can post it.

this is the purest form of how you should play this character. http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?16551-A-Relius-Beginner-Guide there are a few details missing but for the most part, your general gameplan run and summon, rushdown/zone, desummon and run. the optimal position is you in their face with over 5000 ic guage to spend, be it frugally or liberally just get the hit, desummon, and dip. repeat. l remember pming a member on this before, let me see if l still have that to post.

yes, it is a pleasure to see you again as well. we have a good team right now, and not everyone wants to do combos lol, so we should have every role filled soon.

very good! perhaps he is just waiting for cp to release to be active here again which makes sense. with that out of the way, there is the rest to be done. there's still the videos scourer and the combo specialist. l could probably do that and the strategies. hard bread could be the overseer of course. threads to be archived, shit to be posted... crap i'm already investing more than expected, i'll likely take a role. great, another member offers to help. this is going to work out.

oh no. no more IOH. get ready for lotus. make IOH look tager tier. my data: psn: howling-_-moon (MAY change to jp acct not sure) character: rachel + sub army, we in there state: NY

we know you're not crazy... we know... seriously though. so it seems like hard bread is our mod. hm. if we had more people posting here (and therefore more brains and hands), perhaps we can resurrect him. or at least flesh the place out a bit.

6d/2d for high/low respectively. requires a heat up state.

repost 214c tracks about 3/4 screen, by that time if the foe is not blocking or getting hit it'll just come out. l believe once its active now, ignis performs the dance in place or just doesn't move as much. even active with full track, l don't think her hitbox reaches quite fullscreen. @necroreaper;then we'll need someone who can. someone to scour videos, some to analyze them for combo data, a translator for the jp stuff, and an overseer who makes sure everything comes together and posting the data. there is more but this is like the template for a basic detailed sub forum. @toan; thanks for saving me some time.

I think you mean who will be leading the data unboxing. who are the mod(s) here? have you tried to contact them about it? it's clear they are afk and is unclear if they will come back from the bathroom. in the meantime, everyone is on their own. of course, you could always lead by example...? l do play and plan of continuing to play relius. if no one seriously tries to handle the data and combos, l -may- do it, and if so, i'll need some assistance.

mostly all his current bad ones with haku being shotgunned from #1 on that shit list. so it'd probably be litchi, tao, relius, hazama, mu, controlling superior ranges, most having dp's to pre-emptively stop a ToD before it's too late, completely denying carl his gameplan by bodying ada/ being everywhere at once. then theres those mosquitoes. lambda, rachel, jin who can zone you for a long time and keep momentum a while, still can screw up and die l also think amane will give him hell with those long range physicals and fabhops to zip around with. lv3 drill hurts carl and tao the most and he may be able to build consistently. 50 heat dp may be one of the few capable of escaping carl oki, which is big especially with 100 heat to rapid. that's who it seems like to me, give or take. doubt there will be any cse haku flavored matchups. that was horrible,

6c(1) does not work in cp. it would have to be ....6c(2) rekkas/whatever else which should do decently with the proration changes to 6c. assuming 6c(2) would work consistently here. not to mention gravity is even stronger in cp so people may not float the same.

i'd rather no noel than any noel. that would take all the whiny characters out if the game. though her bravery is beginning to show, so perhaps the past could be forgotten. high chance though that the dlc is merely a palette swap, for those who prefer her old costume for whatever reason.