Naka

In Revelator 1.02 there are already some hidden balance changes, mostly to frames data and move properties. Japanese players are trying to figure it out and make a list of all the changes.

Most tricky is back dash yrc shenanigans then it depends on your position, either into door in corner or evade / block bomb into air combo.

I know this thread is for discussion all along, and I do have fun discuss things sometimes. I just want to discuss the part that I find more interesting. If you really want to affect the character change somehow, better discuss it with a Japanese player who goes to loke test or send mail directly to ASW. Here in dustloop we mostly do this to satisfy our hunger for discussing. Or at least it's me and the way I read people's posts. Yesterday I played round robins 3on3 and lost to a Potemkin I usually win with the rate 7-3 yet won against a Sin I don't have much experience with except a loss in a FT5 series. Even as a bottom tier character, Xrd Potemkin must be the best of all bottom characters since forever. The game is really well balanced, it makes more sense now to complain for your own satisfaction than discussing seriously. Because we don't even have enough knowledge in game to make a good suggestion anyway. So let's just complain, but make it civiled I guess.

@Sol Badguy Z AC http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/forums/topic/11803-suggested-tweaks-and-oversights/&page=5#comment-935745 sounds like sarcasm but take that part out still can serve as a soundly argument about how I actually did shot down the nerfs you proposed. In general, if there are 5 character that are as strong as each others and you want to nerf one to balanced the roster, you need to do the same to the other 4. If you have time, reread some posts of people you might have missed. Edit: I might have yet made myself clear. The two nerf you talk about are 2 very powerful and unique mechanic to Faust, if you take it out or change it to the way you think it's fair, it will ruin Faust as a character, and that's counterproductive. You have played for 15 years, you should already know these 2 mechanics have been there for as long as Faust is and nobody have problem with it. It's strong and fair, that's all. Greed Sever was created to be an overhead. Creating an air version to be an ender sound weird because they need to have very different attritutes then. Need clearer ideas about how this should work.

I really want to read a topic full of information and analyzing about characters that REALLY need a tweak. We stuck nearly 6 pages adressed the 2 already good balanced characters that won't need any change until the whole game evolve into a different meta than now and try to lecture(somewhat) a guy who insist on demanding overwhelming buff/neff on both char. I repeat myself, I really want to know your thought about Potemkin and Ramlethal. On the last page Flick posted some interesting contents about Potemkin. I'm waiting to see some discussion here since someone finally light thing up on this topic.

I'm gonna totally agree with the two nerf and add in tweaks for others top characters to balance them out. The list go like this Faust: Even bigger hurt box on the air FDC can only be done at the top height of his jump Sol Reduce untech time of his follow up kick after uppercut. So no knock down from air combo. Make fafnir into #R version. Millia: Orb disappeared when got hit or block. The pin need at least 400 frames cool down to pick up. Elphelt: Shotgun moves piority go down at least one level each. Pineberry is now hit both character. Zato-one: Even more cooldown on eddie gauge. Damage reduction to about 70%. It's cool guy. I can make a wish list too. Make these top into trash | low tier character. They don't deserve to win in range and close combat, should not be able to combo or mix-up. Remove

The feeling are mutual and we here, 3 people laugh our ass off with 100% of your posts. So I'm not offended, you too, please don't be. How do you people think about Ramlethal's situation. She was imbalanced before but 1.1 came out and crashed her harshly. Now she is hard to play and weak, seem really unfair. I believe buff the swords a little is the only way. She only need a bit of buff for her neutral to duke it out with the like of Faust and Ky. I mean every time she places a sword, it got shot down. This apply even when she already got her chance and advantage, but still not enough to stop a jump attack with good range and start up. Any thought on this?

Using Nage vs Kazunoko as an example is a joke, mind you. In this current condition of the game, Nage is like 2 or 3 level higher than Kazunoko. I've seen Mugen or Karinchu(Sol of couse) dominated Nage so bad it looks like the match up is 7-3 in Sol's favor. I can actually use the match between Kazunoko and ElvenShadow to counter your argument, but it's silly and I won't play that game with you. Any poke Faust try to do can get rekt with just 6P, Fafnir or BB. You make it look like Faust's 6H beat Sol's Kudakero ridiculous, how about why did Kazunoko mess up and use Kudakero like that at the first place. Have you seen Sol's 6H beat Faust's 2H or Ky's 2S? And Sol's Fafnir is a poke, an anti-air, a footsie, a combo, a counter tool. Beat that any move in the game. I don't even think you know that Chipp's divekick can do at any height, can FDC with the same method into a result that actually make a 50-50 situation. Keep making Faust look OP while think Sol is really weak in comparison while the tier is the same,(And when Ogawa, Nage or Sharon who actually play top tier characters think it is, it mind as well be) that isn't even on the level of thinking. Consider the match-up of the whole roster, please think before you write, and be level-headed. Also as I know it, Faust vs Sol (since you're still freaking intrigued about this match up or something) it's supposed to be in Faust's favor. Faust got his fair share of bad match-up already,(yeah, like 2-3, he is top tier I know) let's him alone with this one don't you.Still can't understand Faust's pressure part. Not sure you got rekt hard by a local Faust or a Kazunoko's admirer. Faust shenanigans work twice in a row at best, dealing maybe 200 damage when the players on both side are at the same level of mind game and at that moment the Faust outplay his opponent, that require ton of works from Faust's part. Sol oki into mixup is pure guessing on the defensive side and one knock down can let to totally beatdown the same way as Millia's gameplan. You know that those stuff have nothing with Faust as a character, yet you only see that kind of pressure in Japanese top Faust player, not anywhere else, except if you can point out some decent examples. I doubt you ever know how risky it is to put pressure on another character up close as a slow, long range character. It's safe then it won't work, to make it works you will risk something. Actually you try to earn 120 dam and a knock down by putting yourself in the risk of eating as much as 200 damage and also a knock down. The ability to make it actually works more than not required mindgame. This might as well be my last post on this match-up. Look up at the tittle of the topic, there should be room for other characters. Characters that really need a tweak like Potemkin or Ramlethal. Not a top tier character. Let the top tier alone, they are there because they are strong enough with good players to be there. I feel so heavy to persuade a player who I don't even know how good or bad he is, consider think twice about buff a top tier character(a lot).

Faust's 6P is super fast (fastest of all 6P) with very high and far hit box (large in both horizontal and vertical range) but does come with a built in drawback: the small invul frames for a 6P(that use like a real 6P anti-air, not the Elphelt's kind) and one of the most unsafe one if ever baited(small active frames, large recovery frames, highly disadvantage on block). I don't deny its power, just want to say as everything, it comes with built in drawback. P.S: I double check. There is one 6P that look really worse in all regards: Axl Low. That's why Axl defense with his uppercut and sometime 2S, not 6P I guess. Let's me just say this. 5D YRC cost tension with 10 frames invul, many other chars have better tool than that, and Faust stuck with this. The floaty jump is great indeed, but what does it has to do with defense? 6P is superb for a good abare with really good read, which is as hard as it sounds. Crawling is the same as floaty jump, it's a movement option and that's a neutral tool, not defensive one. 2P range look great for a 2P, but when you really think about it, with the same start up frames at 7, other chars got 2K or 2S for more dam, similar range. They are just too ignorant and spam 2P instead for abare, and that sucks. I don't know how come you guys still mistake defense for neutral. When you're attacked it defense. When both are on a neutral frames, regardless of advantage in range, that is neutral. Neutral can be offensive or defensive depend on the character's gameplan. Defensive neutral(Use your moves/ movement to get around a disadvantage position) is different from defense (which mean block, DA, invul frames moves to get out of defense, sometimes a good jump out when there is open frames, sometimes burst, blitz and finally abare)

This is what I want to tell. You can't hit Faust the same way you hit other char. You have this specific way to deal dam to him with much better result. AND SOME PEOPLE TELL ME IT'S UNFAIR FOR FAUST'S HURTBOX TO BE ASS. Stop play auto-pilot, think before doing a combo. How hard could it be? You don't complain about May or Potemkin because of their weight yet you can always complain about Faust being float, which his art / modeling show he is. I still remember how many characters with sweep jump cancel into full damage combo against Faust. The upcoming Jam will hurt his tier list position a lot if they do her justice.

The Jin avatar was around CS time when we thought GG is dead and need to play another game. I don't even care about BB now though D:. AND I don't care about my avatar anymore, my twitter avatar is a hammer lol. If my avatar here is misleading then I will beg your pardon. I'm lazy and I'm not active enough in dustloop.com to change it. Truthfully, I don't want to make it looks like Faust is weak. I play a character because I like the playstyle and I love to prove the character is the strongest actually. I want to say the tools are not braindead to use, and it's fair to have those tools since Faust already has other drawback. I don't know if Faust is easy to pick up or not. Hell I use as many as 2 years to kinda get my FDC out properly, that including switching over stick(I was playing on keyboard / hitbox originally). What I know is Sol is easy to pick up to the point anybody sub a Sol. So we have rule similar to Japanese in our scene: character lock in tournament. A Potemkin/Slayer will try the best to improve their gameplan instead of sub a Sol to beat Ky / Faust / Venom / Whatever. I pick up Faust at #R and I believe most know Sol was stronger then. At that moment nobody heard a thing about XRD anyway. I love playing Faust because of all the random stuff and the amount of footsie / spacing that's pretty damn rare in an airdash game. I don't know for US players but here we don't play accordingly to tier list. We just love to read, review, analyze, sometimes become depressed over a nerf or celebrate when our character's tier go up. In Xrd Era we got players switch from Ky to Ramlethal (and he only did recently when 1.1 come out lol), a Millia convert into I-no, a Sol into Sin. I believe when we can't find a character we really love but still want to play, we just stick around with simple character like Sol / Ky until we do. I believe Faust is balanced as he is right now, it's the players that made him so high on the tier list. Also your first sentence now that I read it again. Every character is the same you know. Your Sol's rushdown probably look something. Machaboo or Mugen's rushdown look terrific. It's just theoretically true. Rushdown have more than just setplay. It includes mind game. Mind game is not a character's tool. It's a player's weapon. Very different. Thankfully you stop talk from Sol's point of view because I have enough of that. New players start with Sol complain about almost everything and I can't explain anything better than just play the game with them more.

Saw this hilarious topic on twitter. Really worths the time I spent reading 4 pages. Now I will try to contribute to this funny little thing with my shitty limited English(It really is, so excuse me). Let's me just talk about Faust and Sol in general. I'm a player from XX era, didn't play AC since I don't like AC gameplay, comeback with Xrd. I play Sol as my main for about 7 years and switch to main Faust in 2013, just before Xrd. The reason was in my scene, there are like over 10 ppl that play Sol, at least 3 of them are better than me with sub Sol. And there is no delicated Faust player. So I tried to convert, and here I am. I try to justify all the stuffs that come later, bear with me. Faust and Sol are strong and probably as strong as each other in XrdS 1.1 / XrDR. ASW amplify the gameplan of both to new height and they can compete evenly with the ever-top tier character Eddie - ZATO-1 and Millia, also the ***-tier newcomer Elphelt. - He's got screen control Faust was create to play screen control. Take it away you ruin the base of his characteristic. How about a Sol that can't dash / have a hopping dash instead and no DP? Awesome Recovery is cool if he got the longest start up frames ever for all of his normal moves (yes, in this regard he is the slowest character in the cast. His punch moves are slower than even Potemkin, and that guy is a grappler). Not to mention he doesn't got ton of frame advantages going along with his move, Sol does btw. - Hellride rushdown on cornered opponents His rushdown is one of the weakest in the game. You watch any of Nage or Kiisha's stuff? Their rushdown is strong because they are Nage and Kiisha. Point out a character that have a worse rushdown game. Actually just do that. I look at the whole roster for 10 freaking minutes still can't get one. Nowaday even May got a better rushdown game, and even Axl Low has his YRC ransengeki into shenanigans. 6HS as an overhead is a joke, FDC j.K is noticeable (remember, Millia's TK Badmoon is faster and there is no sign whatsoever. FDC j.K mostly hit as a counter hit or need heavy mind games. And it's not the easiest to convert into damage. And a fucking technical move to do well). His command throw is weaker than others (since it's only a semi command throw) and his dash speed is slow. So that's it. He got a lot of options, and nothing is at top of the foodchain. So no. His rushdown is normal. This is really hilarious come out from a Sol player. I mean, his rushdown is one of the best. - All the benefits of a character who can reach across the entire screen with very little of the drawbacks (hurtbox bullshit) And Axl Low actually did "All the benefits of a character who can reach across the entire screen with very little of the drawbacks (hurtbox bullshit)" much better. A Faust with out footsie is a dead Faust, an Axl Low without footsie is a god damn Tower of Death. People already pointed out how f.S and rerere is counterable, I don't need to venture into that more. - The ability to interrupt the opponent's offensive during their rightfully earned turn for spanking. How? and Why? I mean. This guy have like the worst defensive options in this game. Ever. Everybody got more invincible frames moves than he is. His normal is slow af. So hard to abare and second slowest jump start up. Just how? Crawling ain't do shit, it's just the same when other people got their own low profile moves and 5D YRC cost tension, good read and very risky. His shitty defense was created to balance out all the advantage he got already in neutral game (long strong pokes, items...) so it's fine. - 5 anti airs. Standing kick, crouching kick, forward punch, and even dust. He can even crawl, wait for landing recovery and throw the opponent. Ridiculous. Just the other day when I told peeps: I wish I could have less anti-air yet more useful. Many anti-air moves, each are so different to another mean more to learn, mean harder to play well. Either you play against / watch good Faust or you're a bad player. Sol's j.S beat Faust's 5K, 2K, 6P, crawling, safe against then punish 5D. And most character got something similar to Sol's j.S. Those anti-air moves are there to stop you from doing stupid things which a decent player should not do. Like a wild bandit bringer, or random jump-in. If you can do these stuff and nothing can counter, then THAT is hilarious. Again, ton of anti-air doesn't mean ton of advantage, it's that mean this character have many anti-air moves, learn each and how to use them at the right moment. Really? So Ino's note should be this too. And Millia's orb should disappear when I hit her. They are too good of a projectile. Considered chibi Faust come out like 10% of the time and Faust need to keep a really good spacing game to throw so many items to get chibi Faust when he really need it, this is fair. And how the hell do you think spacing is easier than runing in and wreaking havoc? All those screen control you mentioned we Faust players delicated most of our times learning and still got rekt by the like of Sol, Millia, ZATO-1, Elphelt. It's easier to just learn to do a 200 damage combo off a random strong move. This must be joke. A player who play the character with one of the best defensive options tell how a Faust have strong defense. And I think you was mistaking defense with neutral - defensive neutral in this case. They are very different. Funny. A Sol player in my scene really like to play against me because "Faust is the easiest character to juggle with as a Sol, and that make me more comfortable than playing against a Millia anyday". He DOES eat as much shit and he can dishes out. Sometimes even more. He is a strong character, and that's fair, characters in GG supposed to be really strong and crazy. He rank so high in the tiers because for some reason top players here and there play him. You guys in US lose to ElvenShadow because he is overall one of the best players there. People in Japan lose to Nage because he is a top tier player there. He is a well made and well balanced character since 1.1 and with plenty of pros and cons going around. Sol also is. Stop being biased. Like this

You can hold P to delay item and adjust the range of item's landing. Do it perfectly a hammer become a projectile meaty. There you have it, the reason why.

Basically mean Dogura doesn't have as many problems with Faust as most players. Faust seems to hit Koichi hard though. One thing for sure, Zato is the strongest no matter what.

Only training a lot can solve this problem. Don't do it too fast j2k will whiff or too slow it won't combo. Other than that just train a lot. My friends don't play Faust because they can't seem to do this, i can because i suffered from huge amount of lost, all because i try doing this infamous overhead combo in my casual matches. ^Some frametraps that many Faust players do but don't even know it is sometimes: 5P>6HS (yes it's not only for overhead) 5P>mini dash >5P this actually works many times in a match if the other person doesn't respect your +5 attack 2P>2HS this rarely works, but it's safe, in the case it does work, 2HS(counter hit probably) > scapel pull 2K>low j.2K that hit. This mix with j.2K whiff into mettakiri. (f).S> Scapel pull this will counter any attemp to jump after blocking (f).S without "1f jump(I know the name is wrong)" These are the most use that I know of, other playeys may know something else. Faust is not really strong in frametrap department eh? But don't worry you have other tools that work on the same basis (traping opponent into cheesy abare and punish it). These only work well in corner: Blockstring (mostly 2k 1-3 hit) > (super) jump cancel into the air let people think they can use 6P/any normal anti-air to beat you > FDC to delay the landing > Love. Blockstring > Jump back j.2K beat many air to air attemp of people who try to jump out of the corner with normal jump attack. Time well, this beat Millia's j.k, j.hs, Sol's j.p and many many more. If you are winning in mental battle and you are playing against people with uppercut (Except Sin, this won't end well) Blockstring > jump cancel in to FDC > block all uppercut or reversal OD when they try to mash out, if they sit still, you can proceed with more blockstring or mix into metakiri. Throwing out an item before your corner game is always a plus. Mini Faust/ Poison / Meteor mean more mix up. Jump pad and 100 ton thinggy mean unblock combo. Bomb mean you get to reset your block string with superjump Love. Hammer is the best jump check ever. Blackhole / Oil mean they won't get out until you mess up or these items run out. Good luck with your Faust's gameplay ^-^