Villainous

This is an interesting fight. High damage Slayer vs. low health Chipp. Evasion and trickery vs. Slayer's defensive, pick your moment to strike style, atleast in this fight. This is supposedly Chipp's worst match up, I believe, but it's by no means EASY for Slayer, in fact this fight is almost about as much work as fighting Potemkin, if it's against a good Chipp. Since Chipp has to play extra cautious in this fight, don't expect to be handed easy mistakes to punish. Chipp can zone you somewhat well, and he has the ability to stay way above your threat range when he needs room to breath. Usually Chipp will be picking the fights here, so you have to simply defend and look for that opening. Chipp's c.S gives him a lot of frame advantage and sets up some good pressure, so be cautious of it. He also can be extremely hard to anti air, since he can avoid approaching you from where you are a threat. If you want to try stopping his air approach, your best bet is to use j.K or air throw. 2S will actually lose out to chipp's j.D at certain ranges, and it comes out extremely fast so it's difficult to anti air him on reaction once he gets into your desired anti air space. Your best bet in this fight is not to let Chipp get above you to set up cross ups and trickery. Air throw helps a lot with this, as does j.K. Also, his teleports can be beaten with various things. His air teleports lose to air throw, and his teleport behind you, if spotted quickly, can be punished with 2H. For punishing, 2S works wonders vs. his uppercut, it can punish him before he can FRC it. Alpha Blade can be punished with DOT for free, and if you instant block the second hit of his rekka, you can punish that with BBU. His third hit of his rekka can be BBUed on reaction as well. One more thing to keep in mind in this fight is 2P. Generally Chipp's rush leaves occasional small gaps to continue pressure, and 2P will usually be quick enough to slip in and continue to 2K 2H combo. 2P will also beat his 6K and leaf grab, so that limits his mix ups if you react fast. Remember to FD to push him out as well and punish a whiffed attack with 2H. Also, be wary of his back dash since it gives him a lot of ground. Look for when you opponent likes to use it and K mappa him, then carry them to the corner and combo for free. Chipp dies in 2-3 mistakes so make those hits count! To copy Crimson Disaster, the top moves in this fight are: Chipp: 1) Running away like a girl 2) j.D 3) 2D 4) c.S 5) 6P Slayer: 1) 2P 2) j.K 3) Mappa 4) 2H 5) j.H

I just look for Raou's arm extending above me for my block high cue. It's pretty easy to spot, I think.

Took the advice tonight and it helped some. Also jumping away or eating a dolphin is no where near as bad as eating a loop in a lot of situations, if you don't know what decision to take in a mix up. Jump away is almost always the best option when you can do it safely. I also found that throw works wonders when they have a hoop set. They want to block something so they can punish with the hoop dolphins so if you disguise your approach and throw, it usually gets the job done. In the air if you stay at her level, j.K will beat out her air stuff too, so that helped in chasing her down in the air and not letting her get away to set more hoops.

If he does that, just stand back and wait for them to go away. Ky's a fight of patients. It's difficult to approach since you have to work your way through pokes and cross and fireballs, and he gets some easy mix ups, but generally they're easy to block. Remember his dust is BBUable, so punish him hard for it. I think to win this fight you have to slowly work your way in. You can also take some risks with BBU, and once you get a life advantage, let him come to you. The Ky I play all the time turtles like a mother fucker though so I dunno if I have any "real" Ky experience. Mostly just Purify experience. Fighting Ky feels like a CVS2 match to me. Lots of turtling and safe poking. Extremely boring.

Ok so I was thinking in practice mode today. Normal hit dead on time gives you a free mix up. Since they can wall tech low to the ground, most people do, so you get the choice of 2S if they don't FD or jump up and air throw if they do. If they don't tech, 2S and continue the combo. I'm gonna test this out tonight vs. people.

Repost from the old matchup thread, this is my take on it: Zappa without ghost: WATCH OUT FOR THE SUMMON. This is what all zappas are trying to get. No ghost zappa is gimp, but at any time he can pretty much uppercut you with the summon. The great thing is though, that it's unsafe if you're alert and react quickly. It's easiest to punish with 2K 2H, but you can also use BBU immediately after blocking it for some serious unprorated damage. Zappa with 3 Stooges: Honestly I don't see the big deal with these guys, people say they can zone well but there's a couple of things you have to realize. Once he's shot all 3 of them, he loses his S and HS buttons, and can no longer shoot them until they decide to float back to zappa. He has very little mix ups in this form. If he's jumping over you, he'll go for the j.H ghost explosion cross up, so be wary of that. Otherwise he has no reason to approach you in this fight. Approach cautiously, block ALL the time and work your way in close. Once you're there, he can't do much. Zappa with Sword: Once again, not a HUGE threat, you just have to block a lot and work your way in. BBU and 6P will go through the lard swipe, as well as a couple of the normals. If zappa uses 236S on you and doesn't have meter, you can punish it with BBU for free. The uppercut is also unsafe, but just be careful and FD if you go for a jump in, as he does have good anti air options. Overall, just be patient and work your way in. Also be careful if he does 236S and you don't punish, as he has a decent mix up off of this where he can either do a low, or jump up and do an air normal with the sword and get an overhead, so pay attention to where zappa is after he does this. Zappa with Dog: Truly I think this ghost is more threatening than even Roah. He has infinites with it, corner traps, unblockables, and retarded ass pressure. Another thing you MUST keep in mind is to not take too much of an offense when zappa is sitting on top of his dog. If he blocks your attack he gets free hits with the dog. Just don't do it. Let him come to you. The dog doesn't have a lot of priority so you can usually beat it out with just 2P spam when he lunges at you. 2H is also a decent way of taking it out from range safely. The most important thing in this fight is to STAY OUT OF THE CORNER. The match is over if he gets a knock down there and you don't have burst, and he also has a lot of good combo options there. If you can sneak in a hit on zappa as well, it will take care of the dog, so random mappas used sparingly CAN be done to get the dog out of the way. Overall this is the hardest part of the fight. Zappa with Raoh: You have a couple of options here. First, you can turtle for 15 seconds. Make raoh come to you. You can actually zone him with 2H in this fight if you use it smartly. BBU will also beat out some of the pokes if you can react to them. Just be wary of his dust if he gets in close and remember to FD the fireball if you're in the air. Raoh doesn't have a lot of options, and his uppercut is unsafe, so if you can bait that, punish him hard for it. Your other option is to hit him and keep him in a combo for as long as possible. If you can do a relaunch x 500 combo here, DO IT. The less length of time you have to be fighting Raoh, the better. Also if he tries to chip you with his super, you can DOT it on reaction for a free CH. Practice it and be ready.

I'll have to try hanging back and building meter myself, although in the past when I've done this, her meter gets put to much better use. Slayer doesn't really have any FRCs or forcebreaks that let him jump in for free like her. My biggest problem is that once she does get a mix ups, her options all lead to the same thing, and the dolphins really make it easier for her in terms of getting in safely. Also, Her jump is so fast and high that when she wants to get out of slayer's immediate threat range, it's really no problem for her. Slayer doesn't really have much that's safe outside of point blank range to punish jumping, it seems like, in this match, since 6H is too slow to catch her before she's sky high. And by the time she gets away, she's on the other side of the screen spamming j.H or sitting behind a hoop, or sometimes both.

Post your anti-may strats and discussion here. May's general startegy in this fight is to turtle and build meter so she can get a safe approach via dolphin force breaks. Both characters are basically playing the same game. Get in safely without getting CH, get some mix ups in, and kill them when you get that opening. The only problem is that May can do this safer behind hoops and dolhpins, so Slayer must stay on her and constantly be wary of spacing in the air, and watch out for throw setups at the same time. A lot of Mays will use a short vertical dolphin after a block string and whiff it right at your feet. It has no landing recovery and she can throw you before the dolphin has even left the screen. You have to be constantly aware of this. Your safest option is to jump away when she does this and FD, but 5P will counterhit a whiffed dolphin in front of you for a combo. Try to block them as well if you can, since BBU will punish them on block. Overall the fight is not in slayers favor, but you can win. So far I know that 5P will beat vertical dolphins and 6P will beat horizontal ones if she doesn't force break and jump off of them. Keep away from her in the air, don't try to jump up and CH her, she'll win out since her j.H has a huge hit box. It has slow startup though so if you can get there before her, you can beat it. Also careful about anti-airing with 2S in this matchup unless the spacing is perfect, she can CH your anti air attempts if she spaces her j.H right. Sometimes BBU has to be used to anti air her if she is spamming j.H. I need to figure out how to beat her turtling with a dolphin hoop and avoiding throw mix ups though. Her loops off overhead kiss hurt too much.

Yeah it's pretty good anti air. Doesn't come up much but if you do dandy and someone jumps at you, it's pretty much free. Also everyone ever gets counter hit by Crosswise RC j.H, lol. I don't really do it that often though, too unsafe really outside of using it as a reactionary anti air >_<

Actually the timing thing isn't always true. 2S 2H is a gatling but it has a really specific cancel window and so it feels more like a link, but actually it's still a gatling as the 2H is canceling the later part of 2S.

5K only gatlings into 6P and 6K I believe. The rest are links. The difference between a link and a gatling, for those of you who don't know is: A Link: If you do a move that was enough hit stun to where you can recover and do another move before the hitstun is over, this is a link. In Slayer's case, doing 5k 5k 5k 5k is a series of links. You finish a full 5K animation, then start another one before they can recover and it combos. A Gatling: Some moves were programmed to cancel into others. A simple example of a gatling is c.S f.S. f.S cancels the recovery of c.S, thus, comboing. This is different than a link in that it was an intentional cancel in the game design and these moves can be flowed into one another more quickly than a link.

FDC cross over and cancel into S dandy seems like it'd be really tricky. I should start using that.

it'd be 442369K for mappa. Or 6321447H for bite.

Write it up like, what to do in each match up? I could probably throw some stuff together for the matches I have experience with if need be.

Can we get a seperate matchup sub forum maybe? That'd be nice.

Yep, tested it. BBU still beats it. edit: wait, I completely forgot about 66 from the pogo. Had to remove that stuff since it's not guaranteed anymore, but atleast if they're slow, BBU still wins, and beats out the other options. On the other hand, 236236H beats out all of his options except getting off the pogo, where as BBU beats that, so if you pay close attention to what he does after a pogo, you can punish accordingly.

Ok I spent the whole night going through frame data and checking stuff in training mode to see if it was feasible or if there were other ways to punish than just BBU. Took quite a while but I'm finally finished now. Pretty sure I got everything but if you guys have anything to add, feel free. Also on terms of little known punishing knowledge, go check out the pot section. I found some stuff that'll make that fight a lot easier. Also on that same note, eternal wings has a use! Extra big lol goes out to IBing Ky's HS fireball and getting a free DOT. Oh and, can this get a sticky maybe?

Apparently vs. Baiken if you do a JCable move and she tries to H counter you can either A) jump up and air throw her really easy or B) if you're spaced far enough away, just jump back and throw out j.H and let the bitch jump into it and get CH.

Not to mention Saki's a charge character where as Heart isn't.

Ok I've started my research, finished Anji and ABA. All the information in red is not BBU related but is useful in terms of punishment. I figured it would be useful to have all of this in one place, so I think I'll just turn this into a BBU punishment and useful other information in regards to punishing stuff thread. Oh wow this is interesting. Faust's 236S is COMPLETELY unsafe to BBU. Nothing he can do afterwards will beat it. Slayer rapes Faust so hard >_<

Mei Fang gets her damage easier and her combos are simpler to do but do asstons of damage. She's like a more mobile version of maori in terms of the "get your opening, take your combo and kill them" line of characters. Atleast, that's why I would think they were placed the way they were. But what makes Mei-Fang lower than Heart/ Lilica / Kamui? Maybe the limited arcana options with her or something? Also I think Kira is that low because back homing >>>> her throw game. Atleast in my experience. Plus like CD said, she has trouble getting the momentum she needs to be a beast. She can be good though, she just takes work and is easily zoned / outpoked.

All of them, that's the point of the thread. Also sorry for the slowness on getting this updated, I've been pretty busy lately so hopefully things let up and I can sit down with this and get a complete list.

I'm about to sit down and go through some frame data and test it in training mode so I'll have a lot more added to this list later.

Hmm I figured someone might say something about that. Certain moves I feel like are actually punishable on reaction with BBU. The scalpel stab is so slow that you can react to and punish them for doing it, so I felt like it should be included. There's other moves like the 2nd hit of HOS's tyrant rave that you can visually react to and punish without taking a blind guess, so I feel like those moves should be included. If you guys don't want em there though I can take em out. Or we can turn this into a "What moves can be punished on block and what moves will BBU go through easily" thread. It's up to you guys.

This thread is a compilation of moves that can be punished with BBU on block. Items in red are not BBU related usually but I feel they are important in terms of punishment and will be useful in learning to get everything you can out of each match up. Hope this helps you all! Punishable Moves with BBU ABA DAA Final low hit of her 3 hit rekka. Keygrab (she's in CH state!) TKed Keygrab First Hit of Danzai (second hit is DOTable on block, first is as well for CH DOT) FB Danzai (either hit, also same applies as above with DOT) First hit of Normal mode 632146H super. Second hit can be DOTed, regardless of if she does the follow up or not. Air Super Air Super Follow up Instant Kill D is Punishable with 2P Moroha Mode 421H is punishable with 2K. Anji IB 6K D j.D Fuujin (either version if done without a follow up) Fuujin S follow up P during Autoguard K during Autoguard D during Autoguard (air)214P Fan Super Stomp Super Autoguard Super Instant Kill Whiffed 623H can be punished easily with BBU. Fuujin P can be BBUed on reaction. Fuujin H loses to 2K. 6K can be punished with 2K or 5K. DOT counterhits anji after fan super. BBU goes through butterflies. Axl 623S 623H Charge (4)6S Counter Super Blocked 2363214H Can be punished with DOT. Alternatively, you can jump after the first circular hit and get a free CH j.H. The upwards follow up to Axl's charge move can be punished with DOT 2D can be punished with 2K D can be punished with IB 2K Baiken S Counter P Counter IB H Counter IB D Youzansen (air 623S) 63214H -> S All Baku Follow Ups IK IBing the last hit of Baiken's super lets you punish with DOT IBed tatami mat on the ground can be punished with 2k, or alternatively, DOT D can be punished with 2K. H Counter can be punished with DOT without IBing Bridget Starship Air Starship D 236K K IB 236K P 632146S (you can sneak BBU in before the bear even falls) IK Blocked Normal into 6H yoyo set 236K P can be punished with 2K. If opponent cancels D into yoyo set, you can still punish with 2K Chipp Betablade Alpha Blade (BBU goes through the followup and CHs, so it's free either way) Air Alpha Blade IB 2nd hit of his Rekka 3rd hit of his Rekka (I would recommend IBing the 2nd hit and punishing though since the third hit can be FRCed) force break from leaf grab 632146H (best if blocked standing, it's harder to punish if not all the hits are blocked, as he appears behind you further away instead of above you) 236236K IK If you block alpha blade and DOT and they try to do the follow up, you get a free CH. Dizzy D Dead Angle Attack Ice Spike (if blocked as close as possible) Ice Spike can REALISTICALLY be punished by DOT or Mappa if you don't have meter. Eddie D 6H DAA Shadow Gallery 632146H (at close range) Sword Super IK 2D can be punished with 2K 632146H can be punished with DOT Faust 6P 41236K (at close range. BBU also goes through this easily) 236S (beats all options except 66 from pogo. 236S into canceled pogo is NOT safe vs Slayer though) Going My Way 214S 214P 214K 6H (if not canceled into a special immediately) 236236S 41236K can be punished from almost full screen with DOT 236236H Punishes ANYTHING after a blocked 236S except getting off the pogo, none of his other options can beat it or avoid it. Blockstrings into item throws can be punished with BBU if you're quick. 2k is a more realistic option. I-No Dead Angle Attack IB j.236P IB Vertical Chemical Love IK Duck under horizontal Chemical love and punish with BBU. BBU will also go through it. j.236S can be punished with 2K. If they TK the move, you have to IB it to be able to punish. IB D can be punished with 2K Notes can be punished with 2K if blocked at point blank range Jam 6H follow up 236K IB 214K (ground version only) 623K 236S K (only safe if they don't have charges) 632146S 236236H IK Johnny 2H level 1 Mist Finer K level 1 Mist Finer S Ensenga (air) 236S (air)214S Jackhound Return Jackhound 632146H can be punished with 2K Level 2 Mist finer P and K and level 3 Mist finer K and S can be punished with DOT. Ky D Dead Angle Attack IB H Stun Edge(up close) Stun Dipper Greed Sever Vapor Thrust Force Break Super Ride the Lightning IK 236H can be punished with DOT at mid range after IBing. (LOOOOOOOL) 2D can be punished with 2K if they don't cancel it. 236S can be punished with 5K up close. 236H can be punished with 2K up close BBU goes through Stun Edges May 3K Horizontal H Dolphin IB Horizontal S Dolphin S or H Vertical Dolphin 623S Jackhound Whale Super Punish long distance dolphin hoop setting with DOT. Millia D DAA Bad Moon 214P Wing Super IK Order-Sol 623H Charge Burst IB Fafnir Tyrant Rave Level 1 Savage Fang Dragon Install IB 6H into DOT. D can be punished with 2K Punish Bandit Revolver with throw. Potemkin Judge Gauntlet Hammerfall Reflector Followup Slidehead 6H if not special canceled. although not truly a punish since 2S is special cancelable, IBing 2S yields a free 2K or 5K if they don't follow it up. IB 6H into slide head can be beaten with 236236H (haha, so it has a use?!) Robo-Ky 5H D DAA IB 2S IB 2H 623H 236236S headbutt followup IK 2S can be punished with 2K. 2H can be punished with 2K. Slayer Dandy P Dandy K IB D BBU Both Supers IK 2D can be punished with 2K D can be punished with 2K Sol D 623S/H Grand Viper Tyrant Rave IK 2D can be punished with 2K if not special canceled IB close range gunflame for free 2K Punish bandit revolver with throw Testament 6H Badlands (tiger kneed badlands can only be punished with 2K) Master of Puppets IK Punish trap sets from block strings with DOT Venom D 2D if not special canceled 6H 623H 623D IK 623 S can be punished with 2K j.236H can be punished with DOT Zappa 6H 236P 236S with Sword out 623S with Sword out 214S with Raoh Centipede Super D can be punished with 2K or DOT. 5H can be punished with 2K. BBU goes through ghost tosses