Errol

Yeah dp whiff is definitely good. Would love to be able to get it consistently. But yeah, you see lots of drops from great japanese players, or, them just opting not to do it because of that. I think it's a mid-screen only option really, because there are good alternatives in the corner that do nearly as much damage. But it is great off a midscreen 5/2A, 5B, standing 236D hit... Although to be quite clear, what I am thinking of when I talk about the dp whiff combo is really the 2cc followup. That 2cc is a bitch.. You don't think the IAD combo is more important?

Oh, care to share?

Theme for Tsubaki lately: Dropping Combos.

TBH, IAD combo is the single most important thing to learn for Tsubaki. Extra damage / *OKI* off it is actually enormous. Hits from 214D, air hits from 236D, 2c, etc are much worse without it. DP whiff on the other hand gets you much less mileage in general, and is quite a bit harder to do so you'll drop it much easier (you can't do an IAD follow up after it btw). Have not tried the hold the button technique for IAD combos (didn't know about it).. might work well? I'll try it..

Match　up chart from Japan says 5.5 in Lambda's favor.FYI.

has anyone pointed out that this thread's title is typo'd? Compliation

Also lets you get some nice midscreen combos off 236d. Saw this or something like it from some JP player the other day: e.g. CH 236D -> dash 5CC -> 623C -> 214A whiff -> 214D -> basic IAD ender (4.2k) replace dash 5CC with 5C if not counter hit. I can't get dash 5CC to land unless it is CH anyway. ed: was testing on jin, where 236D->5CC won't land. (gotta hate jin). Not sure how many other characters it lands normally on.

I don't think you can even combo without using the C DP, actually.

I think this is the same as what BatousaiJ is saying re: 2d in the corner. If you did 2b>b every time, he'd IBDP it for the 1.2k and pressure reset. He wasn't dping at all there, he was 2a'ing almost every single time because he knew you almost never gatling'd out of it. Reaction doesn't come into this at all, the few times you did gatling to something, like 5c I think you got counterhits. Whenever someone gets jab happy on me, I do like to fish for 22b/22c counterhits. Then they'll have to start doing DPs, and then you can start baiting dps sometimes (infrequently).. but the payoff for him getting a dp vs you getting a combo from baiting the DP is way larger for you. Seemed like a lot of complaining about Ragna getting nerfed, and the part about Tsubaki always being good but just doing bad damage before. Tsubaki's A DP is totally legit. His info just seemed really off to me (the only guy I could hear, they had mic trouble).

The most notable thing I saw was Ragna jabbing in the middle of pressure a whole lot and I can't explain it. 2b>b doesn't have any gaps except to IB DP.. and really annoying commentary. Was that it?

The effectiveness of gold bursts varies quite a bit between characters too (er, damage).. from not so great to amazing. A gold burst combo from Tsubaki nets you something like 1.8k damage. Valk, Hazama can get 5k off a gold burst (coincidentally both lacking a non super reversal). Makoto, Noel too probably? Not sure how many characters net damage up there.

LK, what would you say are the hardest match-ups with Litchi now? What chars distinctly seem to have an advantage against her now?

Can't say if it was on reaction, but I definitely remember seeing someone rapid after the green burst and block. But only once that i can remember and there's no way I'll be able to find it. Usually just see other ways of baiting bursts - just stopping doing stuff and blocking (or might be some OS stuff, I don't know).

I figured he had a lot of time to play CS2 so he should know it pretty well, particularly since he played Bang before. Which led me to thinking you guys used a different bag of tricks. Maybe a 'worse' bag of tricks if they get used to it? but always worth pulling out if it leads to some success? I guess I hadn't seen him much in videos between sometime after the start of CS2 and just before rev though when I think about it... combined with bang players falling off the face of the earth...

What do you guys do that the JP bang players don't?

CH 3C -> 4800 dmg, 75 meter, ouch...even if he used a DD he'd still be up 25 heat and at 6k damage

Block the 2D if it comes out.. tech the throw if it comes out? Throws aren't so fast that you can't confirm whether they are happening before trying to tech them..

I just thought it'd be interesting to see what it did. I didn't expect any big changes, it really just shifted things a little bit. Couple characters going up or down half a tier, etc. And I removed the 4th because it seemed the most out of whack with the others' opinions. e.g. #1, #3, and #5 ranked the characters exactly in line with the averages. #6 placed them one differently (taokaka below jin). #2 was more different and had the 5.5 for Bang but didn't really bother me, figured he just felt strongly about it. troll or no troll, it was a bit of an outlier.

I was curious what would happen if I took out the guy who seemed to be trolling the poll. Shifted things a little bit. The end of each line has , in order, the number of positions the character went up or down, the old average score, the difference from from the new average score, and the old tier. Bang: 5.0/5.5/5.0//5.0/5.0 = 25.5 = Average 5.1 = S (1st) == Old 5.1(+0) = S Litchi: 5.0/5.0/5.0//5.0/5.0 = 25.0 = Average 5.0 = S (2nd) == Old 5.0(+0) = S Hazama: 4.5/4.5/5.0//4.0/5.0 = 23.0 = Average 4.6 = A+ (3rd) == Old 4.3(+.3) = A+ Hakumen: 4.5/4.5/5.0//4.0/4.0 = 22.0 = Average 4.4 = A+ (3rd) == Old 4.3(+.1) = A+ Arakune: 4.0/4.5/4.0//4.0/4.0 = 20.5 = Average 4.1 = A (5th) +1 Old 3.9(+.2) = A Carl: 4.0/4.0/4.0//4.0/4.0 = 20.0 = Average 4.0 = A (6th) -1 Old 4.0(+0) = A Ragna: 4.0/4.0/4.0//4.0/4.0 = 20.0 = Average 4.0 = A (6th) +1 Old 3.8(+.2) = A Taokaka: 4.0/3.0/4.0//4.0/3.0 = 18.0 = Average 3.6 = B+ (8th) -1 Old 3.8(-.2) = A Jin: 3.0/4.0/4.0//3.0/4.0 = 18.0 = Average 3.6 = B+ (8th) +1 Old 3.3(+.3) = B+ Lambda: 3.0/3.0/4.0//3.0/3.0 = 16.0 = Average 3.2 = B (10th) == Old 3.0(+.2) = B Noel: 3.0/2.0/3.0//3.0/3.0 = 14.0 = Average 2.8 = C+ (11th) == Old 2.5(+.3) = C+ Tager: 3.0/3.0/2.0//2.0/2.0 = 12.0 = Average 2.4 = C+ (12th) == Old 2.2(+.2) = C Tsubaki: 2.0/2.0/2.0//2.0/2.0 = 10.0 = Average 2.0 = C (13th) == Old 1.8(+.2) = C Rachel: 2.0/2.0/1.0//2.0/2.0 = 9.0 = Average 1.8 = C (14th) +1 Old 1.8(+0) = C