Seiki

Good games to all yesterday. I had a ton of fun. Thanks Tad for arranging this event!

BlazblueXPersona4

Tad what time can people come over? I'll be bringing a GG setup, a tv, my xbox, kof and persona.

@Kyle: What's the character diversity like in Ohio for P4? @Milln: you forgot 2 akihikos, Patrick and I. I'll let you know tomorrow around 2 p.m. if I need a ride.

How far is Cookeville from Antioch? I might be able to make it if I get off work early enough.

Fuck you JV. I'm really liking Akihiko's gameplay. He has that KOF kind of frame trap pressure plus his combos are pretty fun to do.

psshhhh dis is da real game

Sigh, Star I play Bang I have applied theory to practice...you are playing theory fighter because you haven't applied what you say to an actual match. What someone else tells you and you interpreting what they said is still theory until you apply it yourself. I don't expect you to understand my argument because I'm talking from the perspective of a Bang player. Maybe if you played Bang you would get where I come from or atleast this discussion would be more constructive until then it's futile because you are looking at everything on paper and I'm coming from a combination of both experience and paper. You play Lambda and Hakumen...but i doubt it's at the level of being tournament viable...and I doubt your Bang...is either...I've experienced using FRKZ against the entire cast and my experience is against players who main their characters not on the side and not in training mode. I'm tired of arguing it gets boring and I feel like I'm just trying to explain the same point in different ways each time I post it's redundant and pointless.

I'm done arguing Star. Your arguments clearly reflect a lack of understanding of Bang. Until you play Bang with FRKZ in actual matches with some experience tacked on you are speaking out of your ass. Like seriously I don't want to even respond to your ridiculous theory fighter stuff because it's clearly arguments formed from just reading shit on Bang and just looking at things on paper.

Lol, to break 4k you need atleast one of two things ashura or a good starter, like 6A,5B,J.C, 5C, 2C all slow moves that can be out mashed with jab or chicken blocked. To break 5.5k you need a good starter AND ashura. If you get hit by 5B you deserve the damage because you are an idiot and you pressed another button besides your jab on block. If you got outspaced and got hit by it you deserve to because his hurtbox comes out before the hitbox...and that is when his arm is fully extended too (look on the dustloop wiki for the hitbox data). Yes there are situations where you will have to guess on block but you aren't hopeless...you have defensive burst and counter assault. Oh and before you even get into taht situation you can run up gold burst it will catch him mid dash and if he blocks (and he has to barrier to block) you are given +5 frame advantage on him. +5!!!!!!! And any following mixups you have he has to barrier. And the fact that he has to hold back and A+B means he has to buffer the barrier...meaning if you delay your blockstrings he will accidentally get a backdash and you can punish that backdash, like how you punish advancing guard in marvel, with any move that has below 9 frames of start up...which everyone has. You don't need really "good" long ranged normals to beat his dashes, it just makes things easier. I just read his frame data and actually he has no invulnerability on his dashes in FRKZ in Extend LOL. Was going off CS2 properties in my previous post, didn't know they removed them completely. So really all you have to worry about is his attacks out of his Dashes...and he can't attack until 9f into his dash...and his fastest attack is at 5 frames so realistically he takes 14 frames to do his fastest attack and EVERYONE has atleast two or three moves that are faster than 14f...even Tager... If you jump and instant block D Nails (which isn't hard) he can't apply a mixup off of it and you can press buttons to net you a counter hit even if he goes for something like j.A....(his fastest air normal at 7f). You don't even need to instant block it just jump and chicken block...hell getting hit by it isn't even a bad idea because they do less than 200 damage and have really small amount of hitstun so Bang can't convert the hit into a combo on reaction. He has to preemptively press a button to convert to a combo and D nails prorates it. As for characters I'll list a few to demonstrate the general reason why he can't on most of the cast: Taokaka: ....almost self explanatory but she controls the air...her normals are faster and she can pick up off of a counter hit aerial into great damage and then Bang is forced to respect her on his wake-up. You can dash....but the whole design concept behind tao is that she can dash with an attack, her drive, so any attempts at trying to fight her in the air will be you on the losing end because you can't dash and attack you can only dash then attack by then it's too late. Stay on the ground you say?...lol staying on the ground...against Tao...lol. That's where she wants you to be so she can cross you up and high low you all day. Tager: Yes even Tager...but he needs resources. If you end up in a neutral situation v.s. Tager it is extremely dangerous. He has large active frames on his moves and if you are running away he charges up the spark bolt and even if you block it now you are magnetized. Your dashes mean nothing when you are magnetized and when you block its barrier blocking so he gets even more frame advantage. And you never want to have to barrier block Tager's blockstrings. Hazama:...chains...where do you think you are going? Lambda: sword projectiles cover the screen...though when you do get in she sweats but until then...you are sweating...and it's not like she doesn't have fast dashes to get out of a soon to be sticky situation if she knows it's coming. Litchi: throw the staff, and run after it. Do the staff super, spam J.C or J.B until i dash into it. Valk: his wolf form has invincibility on his dashes lol, he has wolf form standing B which will anti- air any of my aerials, and it's not like he can't catch me...he's a flying wolf. Rachel: tempest dhalia to get me to block, set-up george so I can't stay in her ass, and she can just wind herself away and it fucks up my approach too cause my dashes get fucked by the wind and I end up running in place in counter hit state. Hakumen: space with J.C 4C...etc Platinum: Cat missiles, and all of her staff stuff that covers half screen fucks me over. Relius: he can stay far away and just spam ignis attacks Carl:...you are just making his job easier Arakune: FRKZ just makes it easier for arakune to hit me with a bell bug and smoke cloud since i can't block whenever i want and if i move i can't block for a bit. characters who do have a problem dealing with FRKZ in the neutral game: Makoto, Noel and Tsubaki. and they all three have something in common, they lack good mid range control.

<3

It doesn't require much to set-up. 4 seals and 50 heat. The former you can get from 5a or 2A starter 3 seals in one combo. and off a 2D all 4 seals. 50 heat is just pressing buttons. lol. That isn't why it isn't used. It's the reasons I've stated above. lol you guys obviously don't play Bang outside of training mode. Especially because you guys are so fixated on damage. First off most characters can net the same damage off of fatal counters and utilizing the same amount of meter...so no he doesn't do the "highest amount of damage in the game". Second, You do know to net 6k+ you need a J.C or 5B starter. J.C can be easily blocked on reaction even from a crossup dash and 5B is slow. Plus you need 100 heat and not all starters build you the 50 heat you need for the ashura ender. If the opponent bursts mid combo they reset the situation, you lose your combo, and you aren't going to be able to get in without taking a large risk of getting counter hitted out of your dash. Idk if you have seen his dash in Extend but it's not that great. The dashes are short, invulnerability lasts like 3 frames and are in the middle of the dash (frames 9-14, total frames of a dash is 19), you are in counter hit state, and you can't barrier immediately... Lol "skill" isn't the barrier to utilizing Bang Install. It has fundamental weaknesses that I stated above. Controlling mobility isn't hard after spending 30 mins just dashing around in training mode and remembering that all your normals are dash cancelable. @Star: "it's not used much because it takes some actual skill to use, and in high-level matches people don't tend to stick their necks out for things that could ultimately back-fire if you don't know what you are doing" Dora and other high level Bang players don't use it often...so they don't have the skill to use it right? lol. They don't use it that often because they understand the inherit weaknesses it has. Also...you say it's hella good...and then you say in a high-level match it isn't used...because they might not know what they are doing...doesn't a high-level match consists of two players who know what they are doing...v.s. two people just mashing buttons?...logic please. "someone who goes Furin will never get caught"....Star, you need to stop typing absolute statements (ones with words like never, always, etc). Yes you will get caught and it's for the reasons I stated in my previous post...it's like you guys don't read what you are arguing against...and you just go in with a preconceived argument. @Woz: "It's really really good. It just requires to much to make it work"...I already argued against this but I need to criticize your logic here. If you were to apply this logic to another fighting game, say Marvel, why isn't Jill or Doctor Strange top tier?....yeah. Jill and Doctor Strange require alot of setting up for them to be good. The viability, and hence it's effectiveness, of something decreases if it becomes more and more situational and therefore cannot be "really really good" a.k.a. "broken". Yeah...Bang players are super lazy...more like you guys are too lazy to spend some time in training mode to figure out countermeasures.

With everyone's install being buffed, FRKZ being the way it is right now would put Bang's overdrive utility behind other characters'. In Extend you can't really take advantage of the added mobility because of the shortened dashes it makes him float slightly off the ground when he does diagonals in the air and this makes him play kind of slow. Giving him his CS1 dashes would make it more useful outside of combos. Keep the invulnerability nerf from CS2 but give him the dashes back to compensate for the time limit it now has.

lol if Bang Install is "broken" why don't you see anyone use it? Hardly any of the Japanese do. Dora just does it every now and then to style. Nezu goes for it if he can finish you off with it. Outside of combos it's dangerous to use especially against characters with range and good number of active frames on their moves which is most of the cast. The invulnerability frames are really small and a lot of characters have normals that outlast the invincibility on the dash and he is in counter hit state so they get a free counter hit. No matter how badly they nerf Bang it will never be as bad as CT, so I don't care what they do to him so long as he doesn't end up CS1 Rachel tier.

Everyone's install type distortion has become an overdrive and it seemed to get buffed, like Ragna's BK not degenerating health. Makes sense since you can only use it once per round. I hope Bang's FRKZ get's buffed as well. Removing the dash nerfs would be great.

If they make Bang's overdrive Furinkazan I hope they remove the backdash and diagonal dash nerfs to it like how they removed Ragna's Blood Kain health degenerating.

I agree with Star for once people judge the game with a lack of experience. One of the most common arguments is that oki is weak because there are rolls. If you played the game enough or even tried to play in training mode a little characters have some option selects to punish roll attempts, especially if you try to roll out of the corner. Example is just doing 2A,2B with a lot of characters, and hell Hazama can buffer 214 214 A+B if you roll out he hits you with Jayakou if you stay in the corner he just barriers but he doesn't even need to do that, you can just mash 2A with him and you are forced to neutral tech. It's a different kind of oki game you are playing in BB and it's just people used to typical convention of neutral techs being in almost every other fighter. I actually applaud BB for doing something different. Oh and just because there aren't youtube/niconico videos of tournament footage does not mean a game doesn't get loved. Some of the strongest BB players in Japan you will never see in tourney footage except like SBO. Like honestly how much of say Shonen or Tsujikawa do you see? Those guys who won SBO and GodsGarden BB tournies. Players as good as them exist and continue to play the game just not on camera. At the end of the day a "bad" fighter is just opinion based. BB became known as a "bad" game not because people took time to learn and understand it and then formulate an opinion, but because the majority of people judge a game from watching videos and reading up on the mechanics, hardly touching the game. And then you have all these people saying it's a bad game and it becomes a fad and other people say it because it's socially acceptable/cool. @Jackie: I noticed that there aren't two burst icons but the little symbol that replaces them is marked with an X when you are grabbed or in the middle of the distortions so maybe you only get one burst per round? About the red background and the little icon, I have two theories: 1)counter distortions might just have a different background, maybe to indicate different properties added to them v.s. other distortions (since they were kind of ass in previous games), Bang has guard points maybe his Hammer Time super is a guard point/counter type super which makes sense since his Astral where he uses his nail has full body guard point. 2)Maybe it's like Persona where you need to meet specific requirements to use certain supers. Maybe you have to have that icon? Or activate it or something? It looks like an activation since it kind of opens up. And you can see it slowly closing in Hakumen's distortion. One other thing, in CS1 they took out everyone's, except Jin's, markers for the 25 and 75 heat markers because no one had "Ex" moves minus Jin. In this one they added it back in so I'm guessing everyone got Ex moves and each marker, 25,50,75, and 100 is color coded the same as Guilty Gear lol.

They'll probably make Jubei and Kokonoe DLC on the console version along with like Torakaka or some shit. Each BB after CT had DLC I don't see why this one wouldn't. And then they will make a BB ChronoPhantasm Extend and include Jubei, Kokonoe, and Torakaka story modes. lulz. Bullet reminds me of Zenia from Arcana Hearts 3 lol. Glad that Bang can use his big nail outside of his Astral. I hope they'll give him a special where he can just throw it and then has to pick it up like Vega from Street Fighter. So now Bang has 5 distortions lol: Ashura, Bang Install, Daifunka, Steel Rain, and now Hammer Time. Azrael looks cool he's got dem Slayer teleports and he probably hits just as hard. I'm pretty interested in him.

America is straight raping this year. We have the most gold medal wins so far in this year's Olympics.

Then you should phrase questions not statements if your intent is to question. You may start off asking why but afterwards when you started to phrase your "questions" as statements it is interpreted as criticism.

What evidence is there that points to that mindset being "prevalent"? And how are you not judging when you just said "[they] never take advantage of that conditioning" that is judging/criticizing.

@Star and Volpe: my point is this, how can you evaluate anything accurately unless you have experience in those same situations. I saw the challenge mode video and it doesn't model a mid fight scenario, i.e. the dummy isn't fighting back or doing anything that could prove that your theory works. Just because on paper Elizabeth can move freely is not enough evidence to prove you are right. You are missing a large part of understanding the game when you don't actually play it. There are probably more subtle reasons why they don't do those things and you don't see them because you havent played the game. I hate to theorize since I haven't played the game but, as an example, maybe they don't go in because the risk/reward isn't worth it because of her health? etc etc. I don't understand how you can feel like you are in a position to judge a person's application when you yourself have not applied and merely observed. @Chandler: It's one thing to theory fighter a game you have actually played and another where you assume to understand a scenario from just a spectator's point of view. What you guys are doing, to me, is like a kid watching a kung fu film and thinking he can now do all the flips, kicks, and shit the guy is doing just because he saw them.

Have you seen other Elizabeths utilize Thanatos like that? Because it just seems like you are playing theory fighter with no actual experience playing the game.

What game are you talking about? In general, when two players play and they both understand each other's options in most situations you tend to play it more safe because any attempt at such options has a risk and it's even riskier to do such things if the opponent anticipates it. I don't see it as them respecting so much as trying to condition the opponent to make them easier to read. From just watching BB the Japs have no problem disrespecting with obscure situational punishes.

You naggers who are playing GG better keep putting time into that game. P4U is cool and all but GG is where it's at.