Airk

This...shouldn't work if you just hold 7/8/9 to jump again if you see him backdashing your j.CC. There's no landing recovery on it, so you should be able to become unthrowable again immediately. Er, I guess unless you're required to be on the ground for X frames or something between jumps? Anyone know? This game doesn't have "landing frames" as far as I know. Also, I think you're respecting IB>360A a bit too much. IBC>720 is very strong, but 360A's delay before invulnerability means it doesn't work as well. On the other hand, if you're unwilling to stand on the ground in front of Tager ever, then 5B/2A/5A are pretty much the only moves you should be using, and you should never gatling to anything. @_@ This matchup is stupid. -_-

So in a nutshell, this matchup has gone from "Annoying, but doesn't suck too much because Tager is bad." to "Completely sucks and if you're not running away all the time, you lose"? That's what all the advice there seemed to boil down to: How to keep Tager away, or how to run away. The only times you get damage are if he gets frustrated and does something stupid. It's like... Tager vs Hazama only backwards. Edit: Oh, and be advised that Tager can IB > 720 you out of 3C>3CC

I dunno. The more of these numbers I go through, the more it looks like people are losing to Tsubaki only because they don't understand how punishable everything is. And I don't see many people losing to her, either. Whatever. My Extend purchase is on indefinite hold anyway.

>sigh< I was going to keep doing a changelist for the frame data, but it's too depressing to deal with right now. Still... don't...understand... why other characters got buffs and we got this.

They still screw me up! But I don't complain about them. I spend my time complain about Noel, and also, EX Tsubaki. :P

Damnit. :P Though I guess it doesn't matter since an opponent has no reason to block high after 2BB.

More important (and therefore unlikely): Does 2BB gatling to 3C?

Yes, sorry.

I have every reason to believe that Charge Cancels work like every other type of cancel in the game, which is to say that you can cancel on the first frame after the move makes contact. As a result, the charge cancel frame advantage can be determined easily enough based on the attack level (unless the move has custom block stun data). It doesn't matter if you use 5D or 2D, since both have an 18 frame minimum duration. That gives me the following frame "advantage" values on charge cancel: 5A: -9 5B: -2 5BB: -2 5C: -2 5CC: 0 2A: -9 2B: -5 2BB: -5 So in a nutshell, charge cancel frame advantage is exactly the same as it is in CS2 (except for 5C, which is worse because 5C's attack level went down), but A) Our normals are worse, overall, so charge cancelling looks better by comparison and B) We get a bit more charge for it thanks to the special charge cancel charge rate values. So if you were looking for charge cancels to make your offense less dangerous...

This from me too. Sorry, didn't mean to appear ungrateful - definitely not your fault you are the bearer of bad news.

Nerf Analysis incoming. :P Normals: 5A: +Damage: 150-->300 +Heat: 54-->108 5B: -Damage: 560-->520 -Heat: 201-->187 -P1: 90-->85 -Startup: 9-->10 *Active: 3-->5 -Recovery: 13-->17 -Advantage: +1-->-5 -CounterHit: 19-->24 -Start of Cancel Window: 14-->17 5BB: No Changes 5C: -Damage: 700-->640 -Heat: 252-->230 -P1: 100->90 -P2: 92-->89 -Level: 4-->3 +Startup: 13-->8 -Advantage: -7-->-9 (Effect of the level change) +Counterhit: 32-->27 +Start of Cancel Window: 16-->11 5CC: -Damage: 700-->620 -Heat: 252-->223 2A: +Damage: 150-->300 +Heat: 54-->108 -P1: 100-->80 -P2: 84-->82 -Level: 1-->0 -Startup: 6-->7 -Frame Advantage: +2-->0 -Untech: 14-->12 2B: -Damage: 560-->400 -Heat: 201-->144 2BB: No Changes 2C: -Damage: 700-->660 -Heat: 252-->237 -Stagger time on ground CH: 51-->48 2CC: No Changes 6A: -Level: 4-->3 -Frame Advantage: -7-->-9 (Level change in action) +Now Fatal Counters 6B: No Changes 6BB: No Changes 6C: +Damage: 220*6-->250*6 +Heat: 79*6-->90*6 -No Longer Fatal Counters 6CC: No Changes 3C: -P1: 90-->80 +P2: 88-->92 +Recovery: 24-->22 +Frame Advantage: -15-->-13 +Now Fatal Counters(? This isn't in the translation) 3CC: +P1: 90-->100 +Bonus Proration: Now 120% j.A: +Damage: 180-->300 +Heat: 64-->108 j.B: No Changes j.BB: No Changes j.C: No Changes j.CC: No Changes Ground Throws: +Damage: 1000->1300 +Heat: 360-->468 Air Throw: No changes Counter Assault: +Untech Time: 20-->34 Drives: 5D: -Max Charge time: 74-->50 -Charge Rate: 700/200/100-->295 +Special Charge Rates on Charge Cancel: 700/50/295 (Initially I assumed the 50 was supposed to be 500, but they do the same weird thing with 2D, so maybe not) 2D: -Max Charge Time: Infinite-->96 frames -"Startup" time before charge: 4 frames-->8 frames *Charge Rate: 100/250/500-->190/670 +Special Charge Rates on Charge Cancel: 560/60/670 j.D: -Cannot jump for 2 frames after animation ends(?) +Charge Rate: 250/220-->275/220 I'll do specials later. So far, my personal analysis is that this is SUPER HALFASSED work. The almost total lack of bothering to change anything about the followup moves to me speaks of a designer who didn't have the faintest idea what to do with this character.

7:00ish it is. I will probably feed myself beforehand.

Truth. I really hope there is an archive of this stuff so I can watch it. That makes sense, thanks!

I sortof figured you couldn't be -too- far away, considering we always have a decent connection.

Best as I can tell, it's relatively difficult, verging on the impossible, to pay $150 for a commercial stick and get a bad product. I'm sure it's POSSIBLE, but I'm not entirely sure how. All the offerings that range (Various TEs from Madcatz, various HRAP products, Qanba, etc) are all really solid pieces of work and you're unlikely to be super disappointed with any of them. Obviously, there are differences, but they're not going to fundamentally impair you.

I'm kinda confused by this stuff, since Konan vs Nameless Platinum seems to be best of 3 games, while Kuresu vs Souji (Holy crap, he won.) was only one game? @_@ But ahhh, Konan, I have missed you and your "lala, whatever, I'll screw up like 12 times and still kick your ass" gameplay.

Sooo, for those of us who were travelling to play this game when this was going on, is the archive available anywhere?

Here's the breakdown: 236236C: Has TONS of invulnerability in CS2 (Unclear if this has changed, but it would just be insulting if it had) which makes it a strong reversal option, but has very little range. Has had its minimum damage inexplicably nerfed in Extend (from ~800 to ~600 if reports are correct). Does not require or consume any charges. Can be used to tack on some extra damage at the end of a lot of corner combos. (Good if it will kill, or if you're sitting on a lot of heat). 236236D: Has no invulnerability in CS2 (Changes for EX are unknown - hopefully we'll have better data in a few days when KayEff finishes translating) but is airborne from frame 4 onwards, which uh... doesn't really mean much except that you can't be ground thrown out of it. Is extremely fast to start up, and causes Tsubaki to lunge forwards slightly, which can cause it to hit under circumstances when 236236C would whiff. Consumes all charges, though can get some pretty solid damage going if you have a lot (Min damage of like 2300 if you burn 5 charges. :P) DOES work with zero charges, but doesn't do much damage at all. Needs 2 charges to do comparable damage to 236236C. Only really useful as a finisher when you're not sure 236236C will hit. 214214D: Requires at least one charge. Causes you to eat through your charge gauge at an alarming rate. Not really very useful except for styling in CS2, in EX, activating it undoes SOME of the nerfage of Tsubaki's D moves in Extend (It doesn't fix the fact that they nerfed the P1s pretty hard, but it otherwise restores them to more or less CS2 status.). One of Tsubaki's major damage tools in Extend, but unfortunately puts a large "burst this combo" sticker on the screen when you do it. (You CAN dodge bursts with 214D, but a lot of the time that's not practical.) Oh, and it's also usable in the air in Extend (Where is my sarcastic eyeroll smiley?)

I can be persuaded to bring an Xbox copy of CS, as long as there is 'net access to download the CS2 patch, 'cause I am NOT going back to CS1 Tsubaki. :P

Dustloop: Airk Handle: Airk :P PSN: None at this time XBL: Quietwraith Name: Mike Games: BB[Tsubaki] Note: I might be willing to try KoF or Arcana Heart 3, but mostly I'm trying to focus on BB right now in an effort to not completely suck. Edit: I should be able to make the 11th. I don't believe there are any competing plans currently.

My thoughts: Don't end a blockstring with 236A. It's too hard to space well. As BJ says, less 236C - you should really only use this at long range. Air charge only with caution. Overall I don't really recommend it in CS2. Careful with that 236D air hit > 6C stuff - that's not actually a legit combo, and you should work on the 236D air hit > dash 5B > 2CC > stuff link instead. "looping" the BNB with 236D doesn't entirely work - if you do 5BB > 2BB > 5CC > 236D > 5BB > 2BB > 5CC your combo drops if you try to do any sort of ender. You can do 5BB > 2BB > 5CC > 236D > 5BB > 5CC > 22B though. I'd only actually recommend doing this if you have your back to the corner, so you switch positions and put THEM in the corner. Or, of course, if the extra damage will get you a kill. Otherwise, an easy 1 charge combo with better results is 5BB > 5CC > 22C > 236D > Dash 5B > 2CC > 236B > 214B > 22B, which does at least as much damage and has incredible corner carry.

Took the train. Was really very pleasant. May try the bus next time though.

Are we still talking about Star Demon? Because it cost me about $130 to get to this event (and back) from BOSTON. Something is messed up if it costs that much to get there from Long Island. :P

Well, this WAS my first event, and I didn't feel put off, alienated, or otherwise made light of. I also didn't notice any actual "this game sucks" conversation from the organizers, though they did speak to the virtues of GG and MB, that's fine - those games deserve the love. I don't know what went on on the stream, but I didn't overhear any negative commentary. x.x

Made my train; Thanks everyone. Sorry I didn't get to stay for casuals, but I was kinda nervous about getting back in time. Hopefully things will be smoother after EX so we don't have to worry about setups having CS2. @_@