Airk

It looks this way from the outside, and if you don't know her well, it would seem to be the case, but actually her blockstrings are full of 1 frame holes that will let people stuff her with any frame 1 invulnerable move. Just going from 5B to 5BB leaves a 1 frame gap where if someone wants to start up a Jayoku/Inferno Divider/Gravity Well/720, well, they can. Basically, Aksys failed at math when designing her, and she's FULL of level 3 attacks with 3 active frames that gatling into moves with 13 frames of startup, allowing the 16 frames of blockstun to wear off JUST as the next move is suppose to hit... unless of course the opponent has started a frame 1 invulnerable move. If you check her frame data vs characters with working blockstrings, you'll discover that the other characters either have shorter startups on all their moves (Ragna) or have extra special added blockstun on their attacks (Bang) to allow the revolver cancels to do their jobs. This seems to be fixed in CS2, but in CS1, this is one of the major problems with Tsubaki - if it weren't for this issue, she'd just be kinda on the weak side instead of outright poor. You quoted the answer to your question, lol. Carl's 5C is fucking gdlk at controlling space, and any possible trade is usually in his favor because of Nirvana being there. Nirvana in front of him and him standing behind and using 5C is pretty much impossible to get past.

It's unclear. I have seen it get punished sometimes (pretty sure I saw a Valk player jab her after it, but maybe she was trying to do something else.), but I've also seen lots of people not try, and I've seen it comboed after, so... yeah. Muddled. What I haven't see yet is anyone try to jab it and get blocked. I don't think. Maybe it happened in an early vid, but if it did, I forget. Oh, and disclaimer: this is all for 236c. Pretty sure 236d is basically safe.

Three combos with a burst! :P And that's not actually that different from the rest of the cast when you get right down to it. :P

I disagree. It's obvious to me that he knew it was unblockable, but wasn't familiar with the exact hit area, and tried to get out of the way. Would it have been smarter to jsut hit him? Probably since Jin has frame 1 invulnerable moves, but he paniced and just tried to jump out of the way.

I admit I am confused about this thread. Either: A) The Japanese list is right, and we should all STFU because we are ignorant Americans who can't block, in which case, this thread has no purpose. OR B) The Japanese list is probably in the right ballpark, but there's room for some discussion based on experiences of good players over here, in which case, shouldn't we stop telling people "shut up, you're a stupid american who can't block"?

I did something like this by mistake the other day when I burst RIGHT BEFORE someone who had a buffered Jayoku Houtenjin. It came out anyway, went right through me, and punishment occured. Apparently, if you know right when someone's going to do a DD, you can burst before it and maybe screw them up, even though you can't burst AFTER the super flash. Will this work on someone who doesn't suck? Probably not, so I should keep my mouth shut, but it was an epic moment at the time.

That Jin matchup hurt me. :P But an interesting thing in round 3 of the first Lambda match - Tsubaki lands a counterhit 236x (Definitely not D, since it was round start and she had no gauge) and is able to continue it into a combo via 5A. Exciting! Counterhit gives how many extra frames again? 2? Edit: Huh! Same thing happens in round 3 vs Ragna, only it's NOT a counterhit? wow.

It could be PROJECTILE invulnerability, which would explain why it goes right through Spike Chaser. But yeah, 214D desperately needed something to make it worth a charge.

I think my neutral game writeup is definitely the most vague and unhelpful. If people want to single out some specific areas there, we could. Defensive zoning isn't really relevant for all characters and matchups though, unless I misunderstand what you mean by it.

I'm bored, so here we go at trying to do this "right". Flame away. Disclaimer: I am not an expert, but my theoryfighting is good, so writeups are easy. :P Goals: #1: Define each fundamental so that people (really, beginners) understand what is meant when the term is thrown around. #2: Give an example of what happens if you're bad at that area so that a reader can both understand why they want to be good at that area and what happens if they're not. (Which should, in theory, help them identify which areas need improvement.) General Fundamentals: Neutral game/Footsies: The art and science of controlling space and trying to maneuver yourself and your opponent into a position that is more favorable for you than for them so you can start your offense. Where this is will vary on a match by match basis - it's not necessarily about getting into the position that's 'always best' for your character, so much as it is maneuvering into the one that puts you in the best position relative to your opponent. This is also where your 'abare' skills - your ability to get damage from random hits, which is mostly the ability to pick up combos from random stuff - comes into play. Good neutral play go a long way to winning a match all by itself, but is often overlooked. If you have a weak neutral game relative to your opponent, you will find yourself on the defensive as they position you exactly where they want you. Offensive fundamentals: Pressure: This is where you get to once you've 'won' the neutral game for the moment. Your character is in good position, and you're attacking and forcing your opponent to block. Pressure consists of blockstrings, high/low/throw/crossup mixups, unblockables, and anything you can think of to get through your opponent's guard and start inflicting damage. If your pressure is weak, your opponent is just going to block all your stuff. Hit Confirming: Hit confirming occupies a relatively small amount of -time- during a match, but it's a crucial skill - namely, the ability to tell when you've landed a good hit, and follow it up into a combo. This ranges from very easy - landing a throw, or an attack you were pretty sure was going to hit - to difficult situations that require good reflexes and practice, like hitting an opponent with an air unblockable when they do an unexpected jump out. If your hit confirming is weak, you'll be landing a lot of single hits and short "accidental" combos because by the time you realize you've hit your opponent, you've already missed your combo window. Combos: Consists of two basic areas - choosing the right combo for the situation, taking into account position, heat, and any character specific factors (including combos that do/don't work on specific opponents, and any character specific 'resources' like wind/gravity/install gauges.) and combo execution. Combo execution means actually DOING the combo without dropping it, bluebeating it, etc. If you have weak combo skills, you'll waste heat and other resources, do less damage than you might have, and potentially leave yourself open by dropping a combo in the middle. Okizeme: What you do after you've scored a knockdown and can't continue your combo. (A knockdown where you can keep your combo going is just comboing, not Oki). This consists of trying to read your opponent and cover their options so they get hit or are forced to block on wakeup instead of being able to roll away back to neutral positioning. If you have weak okizeme, you'll find yourself back in the neutral game after most of your knockdowns. Defensive fundamentals: Blocking: Avoiding damage by blocking your opponent's pressure. When you 'lose' the neutral game and your opponent is pressuring you, it's your blocking that keeps every attack from turning into a damaging combo. If you have weak blocking skills, you're going to take a lot of damage. Teching throws: The throw equivalent to blocking. Contrary to common statement, this is not just about having fast reflexes - lots of good players still get thrown when they're not expecting it - a large part of this is knowing when you could get thrown so you are ready to tech. If you have weak throw teching skills, expect to get thrown a lot. Escape: This consists of any and all options you have for ESCAPING an opponent who is applying pressure and resetting the game to neutral - or even starting up your own pressure instead. Barrier defense to push the opponent back, instant blocking to create holes in their block strings, reversals (possibly in windows created by instant blocking), counter assaults, backdashes, and so forth. If you have weak escape skills, expect to remain stuck in your opponent's pressure until they land a hit and combo you. Anti Air: Not REALLY its own section - more a part of the neutral game, but it's a specific area of weakness within that for many people. Anti-airs are, as you might expect, your methods of shutting down attacks from the air. Being effective at anti-airing means knowing what your opponent's good air attacks are, and which of your attacks will beat them under which circumstances, and applying that knowledge effectively. If you have weak anti-air, expect your opponent to win the neutral game a lot by airdashing or jumping in. Wakeup: The opposite of Okizeme, this is what you do when you've been knocked down. Do you roll? Quick recover? Delay your wakeup? This is mostly dependant on your understanding of your opponent's okizeme options. If you have a weak wakeup game, expect to roll right into another combo when you get knocked down. Note that this list does not include "reaction time" (you need it), prediction/Yomi, mindgames, conditioning or similar concepts, which I don't feel are 'fundamentals' so much as an advanced skills that build upon your fundamentals - the actual meat of playing the game once you're past the basics. Flame on, amigos. :P

But a throw is inherently a reset, correct? Or can you actually have a combo that contains a throw somewhere in the middle? It seems like it should count as a reset since the throw would have to be purple, but I don't really know. Either way though, just because a combo blue-beats doesn't mean continuing it is a bad idea.

That's nice. It's still largely indistinguishable from two people with no idea what they're doing flailing around on the buttons. (Disclaimer: I got bored of watching after about a minute, so maybe there's real trolling after that. :P)

Video has nothing to do with netplay. That's silly. That's just two bad players. They could just as easily be in the same room. Anyway, I think there -could- be value in this sort of thread, but this implementation is not very good.

Oh wow yes, hype indeed. The 22C guard crush reset on Carl was a thing of beauty. What makes me even more excited is that I can see room for improvement too! (I noticed at least a couple of air throws in the corner that he chose to charge after instead of going into a combo, which I thought was a strange decision, and probably would've won him that last Lambda match.) So... wow. This is indeed very competitive!

Dunno. Makoto at least needs to use more than two moves once the combo starts. Watching someone dash cancel silencer over and over again to push the downed enemy across the screen hurts my brain.

Ugh. I am not liking the super extra boring to watch Noel Silencer Loops. x.x

Didn't get punished for a single one though. o.o And I'm not sure if the super went through that 2A or not. It wasn't clear if it had invincibility, or if it just hit him as he was still recovering. I am intrigued. And yeah, I expect 5BB to be safe, but I can't prove it, obviously. Oh, and you don't even need a 1 frame startup move to beat 5BB, you just need a move with frame 1 invulnerability, though having invulnerability until it hits helps prevent trades. :P

I'm sure it helped a little, but it's really NOT what made her viable. In CS1 you can reversal her out of her "blockstrings" WITHOUT IB if you have a frame 1 invincible move - which means that Ragna, Jin, Lambda, Litchi, Makoto, Mu, herself and Noel can stuff her without even needing meter (okay, Lambda needs gravity gauge) and Tager, Arakune, Bang, Tao, Hazama, and probably Valk can all knock her out of a blockstring using a super...without needing to IB. IB is gravy for punishing Tsubaki "blockstrings" (Other than 5AAAAAA and 2AAAAA) in CS1. Is the instant block change relevant for her? Probably, but it sure wasn't the decider.

CRAZY fast recovery on 5D in that first one. And she...won the second one! I almost cried! Hazama still looks so painful to deal with though. =/

That's not the point. The point is that A) She has more changes than just the IB change and B) we don't really know what they are.

It's not just the instant block changes - they've clearly done some 'under the hood' changes to her normals to remove holes in her blockstrings, and allow some things to combo that never did before. There's still not really that much info on her though - there was a Jin vs Tsubaki match in the last set of videos and about the only thing you can learn from it is that Jin can tech throws and Tsubaki can't. :P

What about Jin's D Ice Sword? I would assume that would cancel 'normal' projectiles?

oh. The sad hat eating picture is back. I swear it wasn't there before. >.< Oh well. Looks more 'embarassed' than sad, actually.

Is it too much to ask that we sort by character, with newest matches at the end? Maybe even marked with a date? >.> That allows us to see progression over time (like, if some new tactic is figured out, we may wonder why it's not being used in earlier vids if we don't know they were earlier) and also helps lazy people, like me, spot the latest and shiniest stuff. Or you can just put them in a big heap and make me sift through them, that's okay too, it's up to you to decide how much time you want to put in. Edit: Also, I think I'm glad you removed the sad Tsubaki picture. ;_;

You're right. I don't. I'm just watching the results of people who DO. And that's a heck of a lot more accurate than me sucking with him for a while and then drawing conclusions. Apparently I'm not the only one who's getting this creepy feeling. Makoto is a pretty traditional rushdown character. She has a bunch of up close mixup with high/low, asteroid vision 'crossups', a fast jab, and parry stuff, and she gets big damage off it when she gets a hit in, but Hazama doesn't have to play that. He can zone her out with chains and giggle madly as he goes flying across to the far side of the screen as soon as she gets anywhere close. And his damage seems roughly on par with the Noel/Makoto damage everyone is so impressed with. And not only is he good, but he's annoying as heck. It aggravates me just to watch people try to fight him. :P Makoto is strong, but she's not running away with the game by any stretch. It's kinda got me wondering though. Do people think Arc is delaying the CS2 console patch (to "spring(?)" or whenever, since they haven't officially said when it's coming) to see how all this CS2 stuff plays out in Arcades and then make another round of changes? After all, they can "patch" the arcade version now, and if they're going to do that, it would make sense to do it before/at the same time as the console patch.