Airk

Next question: Sometimes after I hit with 236D, I'm too far away to go into a 5BB->Stuff combo. 6CC seems too slow? I see people dashing after 236D to cover the distance, but I can't see to get it to work, but I saw a reference in a CS2 combo thread to a 2366D (as in like, pre-buffering a dash) is that how it's done? Or am I just too slow or too fast? (Seems like lately, all my problems are doing things too quickly.)

Pretty sure most of her crouching moves have a low hitbox, and 5B whiffs on several of them, even though they don't have invulnerability of any sort.

I guess 623B might be a good go-to there. Tsubaki -does- outrange Makoto, but only with 5B, and a lot of Makoto's attacks have low profile hitboxes and go right under it.

Er, no it doesn't. Hitboxes are the FIRST thing checked - all this invulnerability nonsense doesn't mean anything if the attack doesn't make contact with a hittable box. As far as I understand it, it works like this for projectiles: Did the projectile hit my hittable box? If yes, then: Am I doing something that's projectile invulnerable (Like Tsubaki's 22B, which says "Can pierce through projectiles" in the frame data)? If yes, then the move doesn't hit. If no, then: Check other attributes. If the projectile has an attribute I'm not immune to, then it hits me. What this means is that, say, Vivace, goes right through Lambda's Spike Chaser (Which, IMHO, really SHOULD have Foot, because it COMES OUT OF THE GROUND, but doesn't) - which has Head, Body and Projectile attributes, but will get hit by Sickle Storm, which has Projectile and Foot properties. There is no reason to believe that it is. The frame data is pretty clear about what the move is immune to. Also, I wonder what possible reason there is for Carl to use A Vivace in CS2. I guess if you really NEED to travel less distance or finish 9 frames faster. Because otherwise, it seems like the extra 9 frames of total animation time is a small price to pay for 14 more frames of invulnerability, that's Head and BODY instead of just Head.

Are you sure? I thought projectile invulnerability was different - i.e. a move with projectile invulnerability is immune to ALL projectiles regardless of what other attributes they have, but a move without projectile invulnerability can still avoid projectiles based on their attributes. I admit I've never tested that though. Edit: Oh, and Dead Spike isn't a valid test, because it HAS Foot attribute anyway, so even if it weren't a projectile, it would hit. Something like Spark Bolt or Hishouken should whiff on a move that's only vulnerable to Foot attacks though.

Is there intention to do all the various guide pages too?

Yeah. I haven't really figured out what the heck I'm supposed to do when they spam j.2C; Stupid tail.

Ahhh, Dustloop, such a warm and welcoming community, it never ceases to warm my heart. Though in their defense, this question would probably have been better asked in the Beginner Mode forum. Surprisingly though, it's Blade who comes in with the insightful answer. It's not the fact that they can do big combos that's the problem - though Ragna does have a lower execution barrier than some - it's that you let them land that first hit. Go back and look over your replays. Didn't save your replays? Well, save them in the future. Now figure out what Ragna was doing when he opened up that combo. Hit you with 5B, did he? Why? That's not even mixup. Did you leave yourself open to a punish? Were you mashing? Figure out why. Then don't do it.

Well, you don't strictly NEED 100% heat to START the combo, right? Though I guess since starting Mugen shuts down your heat gain for the next 3 seconds, you need to be pretty close, eh? Bah. Woulda been nice if they'd left that move off the heat cooldown timer.

What about 100% heat Mugen combos with lower charge counts? I know you don't get a big whallop out of a 2 stock 236236D, but two charge is slightly better than 236236C. Are there combos that could end with that which would give a marked damage edge? Also, yeah, Mugen for Mixup seems like a pretty effective use now that you can crazy spam D cancels. Something I didn't realize until I saw someone do it in a video is that you can actually D-cancel 236A/B/C slightly BEFORE it hits (Generally the last two active frames). Situationally useful for say, Hakumen players who like to counterattack your 236X moves.

... We make our tier lists based on these people, (And the theoretical "max skill" people) but we're not supposed to BALANCE based on them? Nonsense. Besides, changes that only break combos that most people can't do don't impact the people who can't do them, so who cares? Balanced doesn't equal fun, but neither does it prevent fun. And getting blown up the corner is no one's idea of entertainment. So fine, call a "reducing the stupid" patch instead of a "balance patch". Because everyone always says this game is stupid, right? :P

I'm with AdvancedNoob - ASW is clearly trying to tone down the level of stupid. And lets face it, nobody likes being blown up with a 7k combo, especially when it's mostly one move repeated 6+ times. Maybe you can "appreciate" the amount of execution involved, but it still makes for really uninteresting fights. WRT to Tsubaki, the thing is that she can just KEEP BEATING on your block now. I need to run the numbers, but I suspect that there are plenty of places where you can't even IB your way out of her strings, and with 6B and 22C being +1 on block, she has safe string enders that leave her at advantage. Is her overhead mighty? No, not particularly, but you still need to be able to keep that, throws, IAD overheads, and 22D unblockables all in your head and be prepared to counter any of them...all the while with mashing A being a one way trip to counter-hit-ville. Really that's what it comes down - against Tsubaki, you now have to play a guessing game about when you can try to mash out against her. Thought that was going to be a 22D charge and hit A, but it turned out to be a 22C? Ooops. Counterhit! Thought she was moving in for a throw and she just continued her string? Counterhit! Etc. Is she TOP tier? No, because she doesn't have any stupid broken corner combos - because that's pretty much what differentiates the top tier from the strong mids: the ability to do 6k+ off any random arse hit in the corner. A tiny bit less untech time or a tiny bit more proration on the Makoto/Noel/Hazama train, and we'd have a balanced game.

Wait wait, so just because it's "always been that way" (mostly because devs didn't have any means to fix it once things were found) we should just sit back and say "Well, I guess we're doomed to boring loopy combos then."? Yeah, and they actually do damage, to boot.

Pfff, I "main" Tsubaki, my character is worse than yours. ;P I don't know how you can not find repeating the same move like 6+ times in a row boring. If she didn't have that ridiculous loop she'd be perfectly fine, and I could be content to watch her do crazy combos, but ugh. Silencer Loop. So Zzzzzzz.....

Yeah. I'm sad to say that Noel gets my vote for #1 most boring character to watch in this game. If I never see another Silencer>DC * X combo again, I won't complain one bit. Kinda crossing my fingers that they do one more update and put some repeat prorate on all the moves people use for the ridiculous 6k+ combos that mostly consist of repeating one move. -_-

They kinda don't have to. On consoles, it's still going to be CALLED "BlazBlue: Continuum Shift" with no "2". It'll just be software version 1.03. And, well, it's pretty much a given that Evo will be running whatever the latest version of their games are, I would think.

It's not his zoning game that makes Hazama lame. It's his runaway game.

I'm confused again. Didn't you just say that using j.214D at the end of that 1 charge combo would allow you to -keep- your advantage? Or do you mean trying to follow up after the j.214D is what causes you to be in a bad place?

Oh really? Good to know! Right. So very short untech time. Got it. I would assume under this circumstance that you could also add some more hits for extra damage though. Enjoy!

So... feedback from an Amateur Theoryfighter here. A) The two combos (the 3700 damage one on the first page and this new one) are not really comparable. The 3700 damage one on page 1 starts with a 5BB, whereas this one requires you to commit to a charge right off by either going for an unblockable 22D or throwing out a 22D or 214D and hoping it hits. There's a place for both, but they're not really comparable. B) Define "positional advantage" here? In both cases, they start in the corner and end in the corner. Is the advantage just the fact that you end the combo on the ground instead of in the air? With the new 'heavier gravity' that doesn't really seem like a meaningful difference to me, unless they have much more untechable time at the end of one combo than the other? Spell it out for the amateurs in the class?

Tsubaki Gatling table lists 6C as being uncancellable, but frame data says it can be jump cancelled (And special cancelled on a hit, though I don't know there's a notation for that.); Frama data is right, since I just watched a video of it being JC'd

Pff! Why would we play the game when we can get a headstart on complaining now?

I too find this somewhat hilarious. Everyone says that you should buff characters to make them balanced so they are "interesting" and then you get a game like this where almost everyone is good and everyone bitches about how they hate all the characters because they are too good. Epic.

I thought I saw some footage of Tager holding 720 after guardbreaking someone with spark bolt and pulling them in from pretty much fullscreen. Not sure if that was a loctest or not though, it all blurs together.

No one is saying it's perfect, and all you need for improvement is imperfection, which we have in spades around here. Just because characters have "broken" stuff (Who are we talking about besides StupidKune? He's like the poster child that everyone seems to use when beating up on BB, and yet he's not really popular, and he's not really indicative of problems with the game as a whole.) doesn't mean the game is bad. Or should we start talking about the almighty Guilty Gear again? -_- P.S. I wasn't talking about SF4. Glad you enjoy getting cheaped out by one move more than getting beat by people who actually had to learn real combos though. Meh. To each their own, but I reiterate: IF you don't LIKE the game, then stop playing it, stop whining about it, GTFO and do something you enjoy. The only failure in that arrangement is you.