Daedron

Really? Well I don't want to derail this thread, so I won't say anything more than that. But I do think you should think long and hard about what you just said.

I really doubt he actually knows all the changes. He was most likely not trying to lame it out and gave the Tager a chance to make for a more interesting match. Either that or he was stalling for time to find out as much as he could in the limited time he could play. We'll know for sure in...1 day? 2? I don't even know.

You can't be serious, H.H was definitely not playing at his best. Wanna bet the devs told him to back off? Like seriously, rewatch the footage and tell me he wasn't playing super dumb and passively for no reason. who the hell jumps in front of Tager and does nothing for 5-6 seconds straight? Mu-12 is fine.

6A might be faster as well, we don't know. it's impossible to tell apart a 24 frame startup from 26 frames unless you record it or somehow incorporate it into a combo that didn't work before...but we don't actually have any :V

2B isn't 10 frames in the loketest as far as I am aware, it was just Spinoza saying they should post that as feedback to Arc Sys so that with some luck they change it, could be wrong. 5A > 2B would work as a combo if that was the case. Either way, the changes so far look promising, I honestly hope they roll nothing back and leave it as it is, massive nerfing of the top tiers as is happening now is extremely good for us. Tsubaki won't need many buffs if most of the characters above her are literally brought down to her level. Even if this is not the case, some of you will remember that the CS2 loketests looked awful for us, yet we all know how Tsubaki eventually ended up as.

I must be one of the few who want pretty much all of these changes to stay. Radical change is good.

Apparently, and I'm not sure, the last change means you can no longer change the arc of the staff with 421/623D. Arc determined by what move you used to set it down originally. Either that or 421D is completely gone and you can only move it forward?

One of his charged moves is an overhead, 2C I think? Doesn't even look like an overhead but it is!

More often than not this is true, I don't see how you can debate that. In the crossup case it's decent because you still retain your ability to bait the shield (if they try to shield the first j.B) and if they green shield the j.2C the auto-shield won't actually make them block the crossup so it's not a get out of jail free card. But anything else that involves the float without using a crossup is unfortunately not that good. You don't actually get a way to bait shield the moment you use float.

Yeah, but that's just a universal mixup/bait everyone in the cast has. You can't actually empty jump throw after the float though since the descend is so slow so you'll never land in time to get your free throw, so it makes it not a mixup, you're forced to do an air normal or j.236B. both of which can be DP'ed on reaction and in the case of j.236B run under and punish the recovery. Or just float away I guess.

It all takes one shield to completely decimate the double/triple overhead, to the point that you get punished for free by the opponent's starter of choice. What really makes it mediocre is the lack of a quick low so the choice of double overhead or land > 2B just isn't that scary. Her scariest mixup is DashB/C but needs a projectile to cover it up in case it gets blocked, though you can float cancel it and reset to neutral, except against chars with excellent AA abilities like Merkava and Gordeau who can punish that for free. Her mixup is still better than those who have literally nothing else except universal mixup options, but that's about it.

The thing is if the j.B is shielded with a green shield (forgot the term) it will automatically shield the next hit but there is absolutely no risk for me. I can just wait for you to do j.B, then press shield and if you go into float at that point I auto shield your followup and it stops you in your tracks, if you try to land or float away, delay or j.236A you get DP'ed or mashed on for free. You can't actually bait me into doing shield because I am not doing it outside of blockstun so there's no mixup there. You're basically stuck doing universal mixup options that every single character in the cast can do. Yes you can just do j.B > land and continue but then there's no actual mixup. Trying to mixup using float is SUPER risky and probably just not worth it. Still, it's day 3, maybe we'll find something using float that's safe enough to do. But right now it seems it's mostly character inexperience that allows Nanase to open people up with her specific tools. It is by anyone with a decently fast mid-range poke. Seems safe against some like Akatsuki, Seth and Chaos though.

Apparently this character has good mixup, I think she does not. Who's in the right here, kind of a heated discussion I can't seem to win...? I think she doesn't because she doesn't have fast lows and her specials only have high followups. Float double overhead is not that good because she can't fast-fall and do a low and it also leaves her wide open if block. Her dash B and dash C have varying speeds so you can just block low>high in rythm and block it every single time, not to mention you leave a huge mashable gap because it's a dash move What's the general verdict?

I don't see how barrier comes into play here since the 5BB is done as a combo. And yes Chzchan, it's mashable but you can potentially bait the mash by doing a late-gatling into 2B/5C.

This should only be true for a few select matchups ;p And pretty much with Airk said, against new players I still use all my options cause spamming one thing over and over isn't fun for me either. Now if it's a tourney setting, then that's different. Then you take the win no matter what.

If something works over and over, use it until they adapt. If they can't, take your free win. Generally, you'll want to test the waters a bit and see how much experience the opponent has with Tsubaki, or with their own character in general, and adapt your gameplay accordingly.

I guess you mean 5A > 2C > Rekka. but in any case, delay the 236B after the 2C slightly so the opponent is a bit lower.

We won't, that's not how balancing works ;p Nor do I want useless things back anyways.

Punching the doll can still end up with you getting punished cause Carl can still 5C you (though it has a hurtbox) or 623C you from a safe distance. 5B IAD may work but generally Carl will place himself in such a way that you'll just get 6A'ed if you try or he'll jump and mash j.A on you, which places you in the sandwich at that point as you just went over Ada. Projectile is not that useful, it doesn't go through Ada and it doesn't stop her from doing any of her moves like your normals can, the damage it deals is also pitiful. All you're doing with that is giving more time for Carl to get in. Though it does cancel out Volante so...there's that at least. On wakeup you must always delay tech or you're going to be sorry cause he'll just do ridiculously easy unblockables or unreactable mixups on you. If you get knocked down in the corner and he places volante on you, more often than not you're just going to want to block because all Carl has to do is wait for you to block it before pressing buttons himself, though the blockstun is low so if he tries anything fancy you can DP or mash him out still. He's also able to green throw you despite volante being on top of you, so be wary of that. He also has a 2D vortex in the corner and the only way to escape it is to take the risk and DP or be lucky that the Carl messes it up. 2D vortex beats every single tech option leading into an unblockable or if you tech correctly (slight delay tech) you'll be forced to block the 2D which he can turn into a 50/50 using either a fuzzy j.A or 2B, not really something you want to try and block, so especially if you have charge, DP and make an effort to get out. Dunno how reliable CA is in this case... if you knock down Carl in the corner and the doll is right behind you, you have to be really careful with what you're doing cause he can Brio (which will beat you if you jump) or Tenerezza you on his wakeup while he's still in the invul state. Brio can be done during just the wakeup invul, while Tenerezza needs to be done from wakeup + backdash or wakeup + OD, because if Carl blocks, Tenerezza immediately stops from coming out. I would advise using a bit more 2B/2BB and 2A than you might be used to in this matchup, also throws/command grab more. You need to do everything to stop him from ever 236B'ing. Do not even bother using 421A during your blockstrings as a way to reset pressure as he can 236x out, and while he'll most likely not be able to punish you, it will place him out of the corner if he was there.

He's mainly playing Valk, but has a select few matchups where he'll play Tsubaki. He won't say which ones though, so we need a lot of luck to see any Tsubaki being played at EVO.

The setup this koko does on me is stuff > 236B > 5C > OD > Black hole. it definitely hits meaty.

Doesn't seem to work against OD blackhole setups, the pull is too strong and will keep you in front of Koko. Which is kind of lame, but oh well. Koko is Koko.

If this is true I am dying to hear why.

Ah yes, thanks. Knowing the optimal stuff when the time calls for it is super helpful, the +90 damage might actually mean the difference between a loss and a win.

What's the highest damaging corner throw combo Carl can do with 75% meter, OD and NCO? I'm at 6020 using: B+C > CT > 623D > 5C > j.B > j.C > 46D > 5C > j.B > j.B > j.C > 421D > 3C > OD > 3C > 632146D. Is there a more optimized route, trying to get max damage wherever possible.