WolfCrimson

So... check it out? I don't have Valk.

Ok, I don't have Valk on my PS3 yet (was broke till now) so I haven't tested this, but: is doing a Hell's Fang legit against wolf form? Like if he's coming at you (wolf-dash), or trying to mix you up, couldn't you just Hell's Fan into him? I'm aware that he can't block during Wolf form, and Hell's Fang has nice horizontal range, and could theoretically hit him if he tries to jump or backdash. Can someone test it out?

K1: He means that at any point prior to the 22C part of the combo, you should have knocked down an opponent with a 2D or a 3C for it (the 22C) to work. Like, for example: 5B>2C>3C>2B>5C>JC>j.C>j.D>JC>j.C>BE>5D>22C. There's a 3C (bolded) in the combo that knocks them down, which would allow them to be 22Ced later in the combo. The same is true for 2D.

^Warning: Never do 2 5b's in one combo, especially in the beginning of it. Same move proration hurts like hell. Try to net a 2C after air hit CH 5B if you can, or maybe revolver it straight into 6A.

Against mashers (which is not a pro strat, kids!), do what you would do if you were thinking of performing any normal blockstring that's not airtight. I.e. don't do 'em, or maybe incorporate a C ID into the gap to stop them mashing (anti-masher strat). It's no different from any blockstring that's unsafe. It's not really an issue if people don't mash, which pro players don't do. Plus, normally, a 5D (1) non-IB blockstun is enough to cover the gap between the first and second hits. People who know what's what and didn't IB the second hit wouldn't mash.

^ I never said it wasn't a gimmick. And also, by your definition of what's "not worth it", you would be implying that overheads are "not worth it" either. And I wasn't reading selectively, dude. You said that "This has been true since CT", and I replied "CS=/=CT" because in this case, it's different. 5D (1) DC was hella obvious in CT, and now, not so much in CS. You said that you would always get jabbed out of it, which I assume happened in CT, because now you're somebody famous (as far as PSN goes), even mentioned in the PSN strong foes thread, so you're probably someone who knows what to do and what not to do with Ragna, and hence have stopped using 5D (1) DC in CS, based on your experiences in CT. Since not even Ragna's frame data states that his 5D is dash cancel-able after the first hit between frames xx-xx, I thought no one ever thought about it being viable or anything in CS. So it's not like you didn't say enough, or I read selectively, it's just that I went Detective Conan on your post. ENDORSED BY KAQN

you gotta wait for them to touch the ground.

Against whom/what did you try it out? CPU? Training dummy? Real person? It's true that you can get jabbed out of it if the opponent is anticipating it, I admit that. The thing is Ragna has other options after 5D(1), even 5D(2), that the opponent has to account for, and can't just jab as he pleases, it has to be on reaction. And the ragna dash cancel, as I have been saying, is really hard to see.

CS =/= CT. The cancel window is really late, almost when Ragna's downward swing is about to hit. Really, try it out in Training, if you ever go there. That is true for any non-airtight blockstring. It's not exclusive to 5D(1) DC. Ok then, go smash your face against the controller to counter it. I'll just not dash cancel and get a free CH. I don't think you understand what I'm talking about, but then again, that might be my fault for not explaining properly. I'm gonna address that in my reply to Titanium, stay tuned. You forgot to factor in first active frame hit, and blockstun. If it hits in the first active frame, it's 12+4 = 16 frame gap. According to frame data, 5D is a level 4 move, so blockstun is 18 frames. Factoring in IB, it's 18-5 = 13. So the opponent has 16-13 = 3 frames to do something in case you don't dash cancel. Frame data says a dash cancel is 22 frames of recovery* (*dunno what that means, but I'm guessing it means it lasts 22 frames), which is bound to be more because of the delay in dash cancel (I'd say around 13-14 frames after the first active frame hit). The thing is, that the dash cancel has no voice sound cue (only that dash sound, which is mostly masked by Ragna's 5D shout), and when done, even some of the "darkness" effects come out. So the opponent has to rely on only visual cues of Ragna running AFTER you dash canceled and do a reversal on reaction, because otherwise they'd be expecting the 2nd hit of the 5D, or something else, because there are other options after 5D(2). So factoring in average human reaction time (according to yahoo answers is 0.25s) which is ~15 frames, that'd mean they have 23-15 = 7 frames to do something, IF they were REALLY alert (not accounting when they actually see the visual cue). I'd imagine that if they were gonna do a DP anyway, they'd be too far away since the blockstring itself prior to the first hit of 5D would have pushed them back a bit, since no Ragna should intentionally start a blockstring with a 5D (just a guess, gonna have to get home and test it with every non-Jayoku DP in the game to verify this). And you can always cancel with C ID yourself if you see them IB or feel they're gonna DP (make sure you have 50 heat before doing so), and not dash cancel. That's the math of it, but theory =/= practical, otherwise all overheads ever done by every player would've been blocked, or DPed, everywhere, and all throws would've been teched, and elite JP matches would always be a draw with timeout. Try it out yourselves (which most of you didn't seem to do), and tell me what you think. So what I'm saying is that it's something to DO to mix-up your opponent once in a while (hit/throw mix-up). I've never said that it should be relied on SOLELY, just that it's something that you can incorporate into your game, to keep your opponent on their toes because you have one more option at your disposal, and they should account for that.

There's more to fighting games than frame data, as I'm sure you know. I've already said it in my previous post, but I don't mind repeating: it's just something to vary your mix-up.

No they won't. That's the thing. Most people expect the second hit, so they won't mash out (because it'd hit them if they do) but you dash, and they realise that you dashed by the time the dash is over, where you are already out of the dash's recovery. It's not something you use consistently, just something to vary up your blockstrings so that the opponent can't get a read on you.

Hey guys has 5D 1st hit dash cancel (on block) ever been discussed here? Because I think it's AMAZING for blockstrings, so goddamn invisible, so much potential. It's pretty hard to time, but it's when Ragna starts to swing his sword down for the 2nd hit, you dash. Opponents will be expecting the hit, but you run up to them, and WOOSH grab/whatever.

I'd like to point out that I agree with the person I quoted, but I'd like to add a point he/she hasn't touched on: practicing with offline people. Don't be afraid to ask a friend who plays BB to help you improve your fundamentals. Beats the hell out of playing against the CPU AI, which does not do play like a normal person does. It's better to play against someone who has excellent fundamentals, so that they may tutor you. Even if you don't know anyone like that, you can still try to improve your fundamentals.

Cool. I like the contrasting differences between the two of your names and colours, you know, lunar= blue, solar = red, kinda like Sol/Ky and Ragna/Jin. All that's left is a vs. theme to play whenever one enters this thread. And you two have a similarity in your art styles (comparing the Litchi and Nu CG headshots), which is pretty neat. Those oriinal sprites look cool, btw.

It's most definitely lag. Can't be anything else.

Were you running before the sparkbolt came out?

Yo guys, here's a Haku back throw combo that's probably not mentioned. It looks boss and is tough to pull off, but oh so satisfying, works anywhere: 4B+C>RC>IAD>f.j2C>5C >Enma >f.j2C >2C > j2A> AD> j2A> jC If you don't have the 2 magatama for doing kishuu>enma you can just do 2C>j2A>AD>j2A>jC after the initial falling 2C. It's good if you want to go for the kill.

You don't dash cancel after the last 5D. Just 22C immediately after the 2nd hit of 5D hits. Don't forget to dash a bit after the last BE so that you get a bit closer to the opponent.

Thanks dude, that's my new desktop wallpaper right there. P.s. Scary looking thing, ain't it? Hope they make a boss fight out of it or something.

Hey superscarfy, where's that picture of the black beast from? It looks awesome. (Just the black beast)