LastStarSaviour

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hBhdbohjjY Just going to leave this here. P.S. This wasn't optimal by the way...

I won't argue with you...confrontation is bad

I won't argue with you....

I won't argue with you...

I'm not arguing with you

.....I'm not arguing with you

HAHAHA!!!

To my knowledge, yes we are. The fact of the matter is, every character in persona has tools to allow players to over-compensate for their weaknesses in a match-up. Using 7-3 as an option-select for when you're about to lose won't help you grow as a player. Simple as that. Again, i'm not arguing with you, i'm simply letting you know.

There are no 7-3 match-ups in Persona, lol. Just saying. Mitsuru has no tools to open people up solidly without meter. You can't just throw Thanatos out at will in the match-up either. Your best bet is to have a strong defensive game, learn when to use Liz's normals, then capitalize for ridiculous damage off of everything. Liz hits harder than Mitsuru off of mostly everything too. Also, Mitsuru has no options for Liz's legit oki setups. So learning all of what she can and can't do in the corner might be in your best interest. That's all I have to say on the matter. I'm not arguing these points, i'm just letting you know.

Volpe, here's SpaceBace's channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/takethisbace?feature=watch A lot of disgusting Liz technology is housed here. Give these vids a watch when you get a chance.

Mitsuru isn't much easier or harder to play than any other character in the game. Her meta is a bit too easy to grasp but she still has to play match-ups really well if you even want to begin to be proficient with her. As much as people try to say "oh well, she gets away with a lot" she gets blown up by players with just solid fundamentals and who know when to block at the right times and when to disrespect at the right times. Get her blocking and bait the DPs well, and fighting her shouldn't be that big of a deal, is what i'd like to say except for the fact that she has droit...that move needs to be removed from the fucking game. I'd still much rather play Chie if we're going to call characters easy-mode though. If I had most of the options that chick had...holy fuck i'd be a god!

Damnit! All you old-ass niggas becoming alcoholics without me, SMH!

Except for the part where I never called anyone in Gear brain-dead. Wow i'm so fucking tired of having to repeat myself. Also, seriously dude, are you really going to just deny people who have talent like that? Just wow.

Prolonging ignorance because what you perceive is someone prolonging ignorance because what they perceive is ignorance is also a good source of opinions. Also, that's the fucking point. Why should mix-ups always be guessing games? It doesn't have to NEVER be there, but it shouldn't be prevelant in any game. Fuclking again, the point is missed horribly.

I never said having high/low mix-ups and stuff were something I didn't want. I said, guessing games, as mix-up is not something I want. It seems the point was missed yet again. *Sigh* Also, it's not just you Klein, every time I mention UNiB to any of you guys I get this "the game's garbage" response. So yeah, i'll drop the bull the moment you all do.

Anime fighters in general, plus Marvel have pretty much paved the way for screwed up mix-ups honestly. There's not really anything in the anime fighting game market from what i've played that has mix-ups that are more fair and/or balanced than another. As i'm starting to play them more and more, i'm realizing that these situations are becoming practiced by developers more and more and these games are being designed to become less honest. So yeah, i'm going to have to deal, or just simply not playing anime fighters (but i'm too weaboo for that so yeah) For me, it's not the risk/reward, costs, or frequency, ect....it's the principle of it all.

Yeah, there are some seriously fucked up situations in Melty. I just respect it a lot due to the fact that most of the mix-up for the most part is pretty reactable and most of your pressure is frame trapping and using reverse beats to fuck with your opponent and it's not even that good to restart pressure.

You mean like how you guys treat UNiB or Melty or any other game I happen to like? Yeeeaaahhhh.....karma, it does exist Also, Again, every time I see Millia do a mix-up, I see people respect it and get punished for trying to respect. Very few times have I seen people escape it. Knowing that there are ways to escape it doesn't change much in the fact that it's obnoxious the way the process works. I can understand why you would find pressure without mix-ups annoying and i'm fine with that, but I prefer that over 50/50's. At least at the end of the day, I can walk away saying I beat someone because they didn't respect my shit and mashed rather than, they had to respect my shit and got killed.

I don't recall ever saying the entire game was brain-dead. I do think it's imbalanced as fuck and that a lot of retarded bull shit happens in that game that just shouldn't happen period, but I don't necesarily think that it needs to be bashed every time I notice it. I do dislike however, when I bring up the topic of something I feel is wrong with the game and I get responses like "lol, you gave me brain cancer" like dick-riding fanboys. I'm all for defending your game, but you don't have to discredit a player for feeling a certain way. Whoops, better get off this track before someone tries to say i'm seeking "victimization" or some other stupid crap, lol. I simply felt that Millia's mix-up or rather high/low, cross-up, and other types of mix-ups that force your opponent to guess in general were brain-dead forms of opening up your opponent and I think this was honestly missed throughout the entire discussion as this seems to typically happen with any conversation brought up to this thread, but whatever. As for why I feel the way I do about the mix-ups, this is coming from someone who likes to force their opponent to block until they eventually feel that they need to press a button, get baited and punished for their troubles. Which is essentially why I call certain situations in Gear what I do. I'm well aware the particular amount of skill involved in learning the actual mix-up and its execution. I just hate the fact that there are some characters who heavily rely on it to open someone up. It's fun every once in a while, but over time, just making your opponent guess constantly gets repetitive for me. In the matches I played against Volpe and a few others, there were plenty of times I could've just killed them with Mitsuru's Instant overhead j.B rapid j.B and combo them for the kill. However, i'd rather just frame trap them until they fuck up and die. That's more entertaining to me no matter what. @Tad: Thank you for an actual response. Out of all of the "lol, you're retarded" stuff i've heard today that was the only thing I could walk away with from a Gear player and actually feel like I didn't waste my time posting. Kudos to people actually giving me content. Also, i'm not calling gear brain-dead, though I am calling it imbalanced and bull shit as fuck. But like you said, for every legit thing in Gear, there's something you can find just as retarded beside it. Simply put, if i'd rather spend my time not dealing with the bs then i'm better off not playing the game like you said. There are plenty of other fighters out there that don't force the kind of situations that Gear does and they're all fun. I'm just coming to terms with the fact that i'm not going to be fully supporting as many anime fighters as I would like due to a lot of things clashing with my ideals and views of fundamentals. Also, I have no problems with sigs, they remind me of funny shit. I need to quote that "Fighting games aren't chess, they're poker" thing. Holy fuck, so much other random shit/walls of text. As for the training and honing yourself discussion, I don't feel there's any concrete form of training that will make you a better player. You do whatever works for you as long as it's a system you're comfortable with. For me, I learned basic BnBs with Mitsuru and then I hit netplay and played over like 4-5k matches. That outside of watching vids on different players and analyzing those players and lab-work has gotten me to where I feel is a decent place. I don't think i'm where I should be at by now, but there's so many match-ups i'm not exposed to regularly. Ultimately, do everything! don't just watch vids, don't just fight people, and don't just sit in training mode.

So fighting games are indeed gambling? Time to play poker everyone!

^This Finally someone gets it.

Fighting games aren't chess, they're poker.

The clearest example I can give is Millia doing sweep>roll>throw disk>Do what I want It's a guessing game at that point. Your opponent wakes up, and has to guess between whether i'm going to do an overhead, instant-overhead, or a low. All which are very hard to react to to the point where you're guessing. There is no conditioning. You're telling your opponent four things: They're going to wake up and block (this is fine), they're going to guess (problem), if you don't guess correctly, you're getting hit into damage with more mix-up on the way (problem), and there's little consequence to me doing these mix-ups (problem) Yes, I know this is just basic Millia, but it's still very, VERY strong basic Millia. Edit: Also with 5) I should have worded it better. It shouldn't be overly-advantageous.

1) Unsafe 2) Only guaranteed one mix-up, then return to neutral 3) Instant over-heads aren't possible or at the very least isn't prevelant 4) The mix-up doesn't lead into REALLY good damage and more mix-up 5) Having to know what the opponent is thinking as opposed to just setting a situation up

I never called Millia brain-dead. I just said, applying the mix-ups is brain-dead once it's been learned. There's no real thought process behind the MIX-UP. Pay attention to the way I state my comments please. Also, no fucking whooop that there's much more to fighting games, i'm simply stating how the mix-up game is more or less on the more brain-dead side when it comes to opening someone up.