Arcknight

Hey guys. I was wondering if you could provide any input on the Noel vs. Hakumen match-up in the Noel forum. Information like match rating and things that blow up Haku a lot. Corrections are welcome too. I just haven't had too much experience in CS2 and hardly any at all with this match. I figured a few of you with more experience could provide some words of wisdom. Thanks!

I seem to be getting blown up a lot in this match-up. It feels harder than it was in CS1 for some reason although I am not sure much has changed. It just seems like Valk's pokes/bites are all better than Haku's and his wolf dash is faster than any of his air-unblockables with big hit-boxes. I think I need more practice. It seems more like fighting CS1 Ragna now.

There was one and it was only for one match as far as I remember. I don't think they won either.

@Raptor: Okay, those were really long. I watched a good majority of it though. I don't really see a lot of problems personally. I see some random j.Ds that lead into great counter-hit opportunities for the opponent (too high usually). I would definitely try and avoid doing that so much unless you know you'll have a good chance of confirming it. You did very well at covering up your blocked 3Cs into a RC > 2D. I seriously give you credit for landing several of those on people that thought they had a free chance at you. Obviously try not to do that without meter (you said some may have been controller issues) even though everyone is guilty of it. You play a solid game. Outside of getting hit with a few random air-unblockables (Inferno Divider, really?! WHY?!)and tightening up combo execution there isn't much I can point out. Maybe one of the more wise players can see things I do not. I wholly understand I am not the best player in the world and my advice is subjective. That's my 2 cents at any rate. As someone that also plays Haku that guy was just playing sloppy as hell.

This seems like such a serious discussion for a General forum! Where am I? O.o It seems like it's from that twilightish show about that zone. Don't mind me I am just cruising through before bed. Being up all night with nothing going on is pretty darn boring.

You can still 5A his wolf form out of the air after a transform cancel (after a 236 move). I have done this a lot, however, be careful. If they get to expecting it they will delay the dash in or go another approach entirely. I seem to have more trouble with the CS2 Valk myself. Yuki covered the rest pretty well.

Thanks. I will try that out soon. Possibly tomorrow. I am having serious black beat combo issues in the corner. Gotta practice!

As far as using the 5D starter mid-combo in the corner what's the best way to prevent sliding under the opponent? This easily goes right under Jin and for that reason I don't find this very practical. 5D is much harder to time now that they changed it to a slide start-up. Does this occur for anyone other than Jin? I think I found out why my corner combos were black beating. Standards in the mid-screen don't necessarily work in the corner after proration has taken its toll. Also /shakes fist at Spring Raid input. Stupidest. Change. Ever.

Well it was just a thought. I understand that spacing becomes a concern in the corner. The only way I can think of to reliably get extra space would be to stuff more j.2As in the string. After sleeping on it, you'd likely only catch mashers with it (or just about everyone on Ranked). A lot of people don't expect Haku to have so many air-unblockables either. Oh well back to the drawing board. Thanks for the feedback.

I have a quick question I wanted to ask and see what you all think. If you do Haku's corner BnB up until the finisher (j.C> 5C > 3C) could you omit the ending and try a poor man's reset? The reason I ask is if you do j.C low enough then look like you mess up the timing you could land and 2C (or other air unblockable) after they tech (if they are trying to escape) into a brand new combo. Is this or something similar even viable? I don't have a ton of experience playing CS2 yet and I am just thinking of stuff to keep me from going crazy at work.

After fighting a few Hazamas in ranked I am going to suggest pressing D is almost always a bad idea. His pokes are just too good. It's like Jesus kick but it's built into every limb/digit he has!

My experience was much the same. Heck he even did air-throw on my 2D a couple of times. I don't know if he had god hands or what. I eventually just stuck to normals rather than starting with a Drive to fish for a counter-hit.

His pokes are definitely boss. I fought a random Hazama in my player match room the other day and he out-poked Noel in every way possible. His normals are definitely not to be underestimated. He dropped tons of combos which I can only attribute to being unfamiliar with the new Haz and or Noel's hitbox not working like he'd have hoped. Still a tough cookie though.

I don't think it is that big of a change personally (after having messed with it a few days) outside of a few links(TK Hotaru mid-screen, and mid-screen Tsubaki IAD links come to mind). His mid-screen BnB is still intact and it's even easier to do. Honestly you just have to practice more. Practice for a bit. Then practice applying it in a real match. Then practice it some more. I would imagine you've gone through this before so don't sweat it. I wish I had the time to follow my own advice! On another note: After playing a few games with Haku with my friends on PSN I can definitely say a 1 frame change to 2A makes it seem absolutely GLACIAL! That change IS pretty bad imo. The change to j.C I can live with. Although that is noticably easier to get knocked out of too (might be placebo).

After having 6B blocked you're likely to end up eating a counter-attack of some sort anyways regardless haha. I find approaching with 2B very hard since almost every time I rush in to start some pressure they jump out..... It's good if you can stick it though.

Which is EXACTLY what happened. I'll not do that again if I can help it. If anyone else finds themselves in that situation, learn from my mistake.

I will keep that in mind. I didn't expect that to happen so I didn't even bother. Live and learn I guess. Thanks.

Okay guys, I have an interesting anecdote and was curious if it has happened to anyone else. I was playing a fellow NVG player who was playing Noel of course and I Hakumen. I was cornered and in a gap in the pressure I grabbed Noel for a back-throw into the corner. Only it didn't work out that way. In fact, Hakumen slammed Noel into the corner so hard she bounced back out in front of Haku leaving him cornered still. Has anyone else encountered this? Are even the game mechanics trolling Haku? It was sad since that reversal would have possibly won me the round. Edit: I even have the replay in case anyone wanted to witness the tragedy.

I just ignored Challenge Mode this time around lol. I got my 100 done in CS1 and dedicated my life to never going back!

That's j.D > 6D timing isn't normally as strict as it seems in challenge mode combos. I have NEVER had problems doing it outside of challenge mode. Like the other have said: if you can get used to waiting another half a second you'll be fine.

Does anyone else find it ironic that Bang went from VERY easy to loop to pretty hard (by that charts comparison)?

Thanks for that confirmation Hexa. I just noticed the damage turned into complete crap and their untechable time disappeared almost entirely. I think in CS1 you could 6C twice to combo and land a third but only the first hit would connect. Maybe I am remembering that wrong. Oh well. Before I forget to ask for the 100th time: What is the best thing to do after a counter-assault? I realize it's faster but I still can't ever land a successful counter-hit without being poked out of CS1 style. Suggestions on that?

Am I safe to assume that using 22C and 6C(2) more than once in a combo is a combo killer? After doing some random stuff in training it seems like the repeat proration on those attacks just rapes the follow-up damage. Also is j.D the preferred starter for drive combos now instead of 5D? The new slide on 5D makes the timing incredibly awkward and the forward movement is not always a good thing since it could possibly cross-under your opponent (which might be useful?). Just some things I was noticing. Carry on. Edit: I suppose j.D has been the preferred way since CS1 so that may not even be relevant. Plus the reduction in 5D's invincibility frames make it a much less safe starter.

Thanks for the fix. Definitely some awesome videos of a strong Haku player.

When I get some more time to practice it I'll let you know exactly what the problem is. It's probably mostly a timing thing. I don't think it's so much a spacing issue but I'll check it out and get back to you. Thanks! Edit: After a few minutes of practice and a fresh perspective I am doing much better at the follow ups than before. My main problem that I'll have to work on is the set up. I've never been good at doing 22BBBBBC or whatever and that dash cancel link doesn't always end up with a 6C at the end of it! Also getting a lot of random 6Bs in it too but that's probably from being unfamiliar with these newer inputs.