Hatred Edge

6-4 in HOS favor? Since when does HOS have such an advantage over anyone that can zone him? Sure Order-Sol was buffed from his slash version and Ky got nerfed a bit but I doubt it was enough to turn the tides THAT much...

I thought you meant 2D was -3 on block not GF...

I tend to use j.P and j.K. I try to stay away from j.HS and hardly ever use j.S(outside of IAD and SW combos). I stay away from j.HS because I don't have much success with it at all. Apparently j.HS is a high priority jump in which I find amusing because I remember not to long ago someone on dustloop said there's no such thing as a high priority in GG.:8/: I guess there is some truth to that(having priority) as some fellow members here have said vs Sol don't try to AA his j.HS because it'll stuff your attack. j.P is real fast, safe on block, chains into itself, and can be followed up with Sol's other air normals(sets up for a nice corner throw combos on May) and can be cancelled into his air specials. Overall though it could just be A)Personal preference. B)Better suited than using other air normals vs Sol(since Sol can beat j.HS with VV). C)Manuver based on knowledge of the opponent/character. @Reaver: Won't IAD put you in range faster for punishing a non FRC GF than just jumping in? It seems faster to me.

IAD??? And Potemkin has Megafist which staggers on CH. I know but 2D pushes Sol back. It's something I'm trying to stop myself from doing. A blockstring ending in 2D unless followed with GFF or GF FRC. I'm to reduce frame disadvantage as much as possible. Like never doing 5K by itself on block. How can you tell it's -3 on block by watching that video? All I can tell is that it pushes back. If 2D is -3 on block then the frame would be incorrect(which has happened before).

Cuz everyone hates Sol and everyone took the time to learn that a non GF FRC is 50 frames of recovery and that means a free combo for the Sol haters.

See that's what I don't get. I never see players backdash/jump GF FRC. I've seen the CPU jump out of GF pressure...

It's in Ky's favor. Ky has an easier time zoning Order-Sol than Sol. +More range.. +Order-Sol needs to charge to land huge combos... +harder time dealing with pressure... -FB fafnir beats Stun Dipper... There's more stuff but I hate Ky(not Ky players) but eh...

MISSION FAILED. You realize you just stated an unblockable setup with Grand Viper that ISN'T unblockable? If they block 2d why would they get hit with Grand Viper? Especially since 2D is -6(or7?) on block.

Grand Viper from 2d is only good on lightweights(Millia,Jam,Buri, etc.) and CH 2D. I have punished reckless backdashing with GV as well. Another thing.. apparently some people underestimate the importance of being able to FD brake their run... Let's just say a few people I have played hate Grand Viper and Volcanic Viper. So learn to FD brake you run ins. Unless you like eating Vipers.:8/:

LMAO..why were they doing random GV's? It cannot be that hard to land a hit and COMBO into Grand Viper. Please don't tell me they were doing STAND ALONE Grand Vipers. God that would be just stupid.

1)At times you can land a 5/2K>5/2HS cancel into GV and it won't combo. It's distance dependant. 2)Hardly anyone actually practices executing Grand Viper because -can't mash -too weaned on doing combo>2d>Bandit revolver(>RC>Sidewinder) -Who does it in a tourney? appraently it's not a tourney type/level move? 3)Various factors such as -distance -whether or not the 1st follows a CH -mashing speed can discourage people from learning and mastering Grand Viper... Fun fact: Grand Viper can punish certain whiffed normals and since it crouches it goes under attacks that hit high(Sol's 5K) or mid(Slayer's 5K). It alos beats Potemkin's backdash invul frames. But that won't justify using Grand Viper. Beowulf that 3rd reason you listed..... who the hell uses Grand Viper like that? For the record I use Grand Viper. It's my main combo starter. Why the hell would I give up tension free damage, damage that does 40-50% life and get a KD? For what? KD with Bandit Revolver? So I can be closer to my opponent? So the enemy will be in the corner? One Grand Viper combo does ALL THAT. I bet if P.C. 012 and if Isa returns to Sol and start using Grand Viper everyone else will start using it..... And if you can't do it then DON'T DO IT.

Geez. really? Then why so few Sol player use Grand Viper? Tension free big damage. Are people waiting for the japanese to say it's worth using?

Why 623S FRC? Why not 623S by itself?

So ya... I'm new to Axl and quite an impressive set of info you guys got here. My question is: If I want to counter a move without using Axl's counter to avoid tick throws, what move should I use? Bentengari?

I agree it's very easy for Axl to keep I-no put but no player will always manage to keep someone out everytime. Even Slayer gets in on Testament at times. But like Axl vs I-no Testy can get him back out again. I'm not saying Axl can't keep pressure. If an I-no player is to afraid to make some type of advancement they will be easily zoned out. You'd be surprised how many Sol/Order-Sol players can VV/SV an aerial attack but opt to block and get pushed out instead of making an advancement. Really at one point or another I-no will get in. It's bound to happen. No one character can keep anyone out all the time. True that I haven't fought a bunch of good Axl's. Seems a rare few picked him up around where I am. Sucks really. What I'm trying to say is that no way every single time the Axl or I-no player will make the best move. If I-no does A and Axl can beat it with B doesn't mean everytime Axl will do it. I've seen Axl rape I-no and I-no rape Axl. I've seen I-no get in by doing a TK Dive WHICH NO ONE WOULD EVER SAY TRY THAT.

Really? The FD pusback is dependant on what attacks you use. So if you're all pressure,pressure,pressure you'll be outta range in no time leaving you with A)HCL B)Note. Note being the best option without meter. Unless you want to dash in again*possibly suicide*. The thing is though if Axl FDs your normals you're gonna be borderline close range/mid range(most likely semi-close range) if you're fast and smart enough to know to stop attacking. Axl might not opt for his normals with the most range but I-no herself lacks range. So while I-no will be in a better position in terms of distance she's still at somewhat of a disadvantage. STBT will be a free half life combo for Axl, HCL could work but Axl's 2K will evade it even if it's TKed. Pretty much not the best option without FRC. Note might work. I-no's normals of choice in that situation: 5K/2K/dashing j.K All lead to either A)a KD and let's her get in B)Damaging combo that ends in KD C)If blocked or FD the range isn't such a big issue that she's screwed. D)May(heavy on the may)allow her to move to at least mixup with a throw. In terms of mixups I-no has the advantage. In terms of pokes I'd say it's about even. I-no has the mixup and speed on her side but Axl obviously has the range. Either can mess each other up. I-no lands a hit gets a combo/KD and gets in. Or Axl lands a hit gets a combo/KD and I-no gets pushed out. Axl's normals are slower than I-no's but her can still AA her and somewhat control space. Becuase Axl's normals aren't what you would call fast it's a bit harder for him to keep I-no out. Pressure: I-no may have the advantage over Axl here. Axl's pressure is limited to his resengeki FRC/ resengeki followups and ranged pokes. I-no with her Note and HCL FRC and make herself a way in. Under pressure: Neither excels in this department. However Axl cannot force a person into lockdown like I-no can. But hers like his is improved with meter to FRC. FD kills Axl's pressure. HCL and Note FRC is more powerful than Axl's resengeki followups/FRC. Do note that if Axl does resengeki into his spinning chain followup I-no will obviously be pushed out. Air-to-air: Most likely Axl will have no reason to ever leave the ground unless he's comboing you... Anti-air: I-no has her VCL and 6P... Axl has 6K/2S/6P but since Axl really has no reason to be in the air....:8/:

Why no one ever mentions Mouse? Is it because his Sol is average or something? Fails to stand out?

Kusoru's Sol while crazy does land huge damaging combos. The guy knows his stuff, he just plays in his own way and not by the book.

Posted by Koogy:

Very nice artwork. But why do you draw Sol's face like that? It's the only thing that bugs me about it. Awesome Raven though.

Okay.. let me explain. If Sol moves in and the person ducks right away if Sol tries to do Wild Throw it'll whiff. This is just for a few frames though. Wild Throw can connect on crouch state opponents but for some reason if you duck as soon as he nears you, if he tries a Wild throw it will whiff. The same has happened to me when I play vs the local Potemkin. Pot Buster has whiffed when I crouched. EDIT: So I tried to test it out in training. I programmed Sol to do 2D BR>GF FRC>run WT. test 1: I let Sol do the entire combo. Each time he landed WT. test 2: I blocked everything and he still landed WT. test3: I had Sol do Wild Throw by itself and I still got thrown when I tried to duck it. This baffles me. My Wild Throw has been ducked under the same situation... At least 3 times. I tested it with FD and I still got thrown. So how are my opponents ducking my WT. I thought maybe it was the no throw window on wakeup but that wan't it either. I remember WT not connecting on the first Testy I fought. He FD GF and WT whiffed. So how is that I'm getting different results for the same situations? Character wakeup speed?

Excellent. More combos. Variation is always a plus.

The matchup is a pain in the ass for a few reasons: A)5K. 3F startup and AA's. It's faster than whatever I-no has. B) Volcanic Viper. SVV 7F and HSVV 5F. Pretty much the "why I hate Sol" excuse. And it AA's and beats EVERY aerial move you do and ground moves except Longing Desperation. C) Sol hits hard. The man has superhuman strength... D) ASW nerfed I-no for stupid reasons. When it comes to range/mixups/pressure/pokes/rushdown I-no has Sol beat in every category. Sol's rushdown honestly I feel it's nothing but a sad joke. Sol isn't as powerful as people think he is. The main issue is his VV. It's speed ruins a lot of things for I-no. Don't challenge him air 2 air. j.P is a pain. VV beats all your aerials(as stated before). As a Sol player the reason I can beat I-no is because of Volcanic Viper. Sol IMO is better at being defensive than I-no is. Add that to the fact that he needs 0 meter to take half your life and I-no has some issues. VV does a lot for Sol in this fight: AA and stops/beats I-no moves. Vs Sol's j.HS: -Air throw him. Dealing with VV: -Like BMS said stay on the ground. Always be ready to FD if neccessary. -Use your fastest normals. -No HCL unless Sol is stupid enough to do a GF without FRC or outside combos. No wakeup Longing Desperation. Grand Viper beats it clean. No whiffing slow ground normals against Sol. Grand Viper can punish you for it. Another thing: Most Sol's don't use Fafnir but Fafnir can score a CH against I-no' blocked 5D(somewhat range dependant). I wouldn't say the matchup is that hard. It's more of putting yourself in harm's way a lot more than he does. Which is what I mean by Sol being better at being defensive in this fight. -

It's weird really. I think it has something to do with I-no animation. I remember her doing it against Order-Sol's 5K and 5K whiffed. It's as if I-no lifts herself up a little bit causing 5K to whiff.

Gunflame with no FRC is a free combo for everybody. Something odd that I found out testing my Sol against CPU I-no. It seems that if I-no does her dash and does j.K/S/HS Sol's grandviper can evade it(since it ducks and pulls back) and punish her. Sol's 5K loses to I-no's j.D. I say vs Sol, sit back and be defensive. You have better air control and more range than he does. I believe that most(if not all of you) can pull off H/VCL easily. Remember in the air Sol's VV moves foward a little. His normals with midrange are slow and don't have high priority. A little tidbit of info: Sol cannot combo into his Gunflame naturally like his BR or Grand Viper. That means when Sol does GF in a blockstring HE HAS NOTHING TO KEEP YOU IN BLOCKSTUN TOO LONG. So I-no can JUMP OUT. Why? Because there is a gap. Take Order-Sol for instance: If he does 2S>6HS if 2S isn't a CH you backdash then 6HS. Sol's rusdown is average at best. it's no big deal. Plus he's an extremely close range fighter so FD muders his rushdown/pokes/pressure.