Hatred Edge

-Learn to IB or even better SB his EXE beasts. -Learn to IB his strings. -No point of FDing him out since EXE Beast will just lock you down and you'll look like a fool for wasting meter. -Learn to 1F jump i.e. pressing FD as you jump in which not "dust cloud" appears so you get out of EXE Beast pressure and tick throw setups.

Noob question indeed... 632146+K or S K-Horizontal Chemical Love S-Vertical Chemical Love

The PS2 port is damn good if I say so myself. And the only thing that's wrong with it is there's some training mode bug in which something(I forgot) doesn't show up on screen. As for Garou not being that popular well not a lot of people have it nor even really want to get it. Aside from GGPO and if you're lucky, local comp there isn't much to back it. There's a decent amount of Garou players(in the US and people somewhere in Japan) but Garou itself isn't easy to get like KOF XI or NGBC or SS. On top of that there isn't some movement to make Garou more popular either. Dark Geese had it in a tourney but there really isn't much exposure for it. Garou is largely unavailable for most people which is a major problem. People aren't going to get into a game that they can't get their hands on. When people see it they're interested though. I have it and I have the rom for GGPO but aside from Crimson and Alternate I know no one that plays Garou online.

Really? I still believe Sol is pretty low in the mid tiers.

5.5-4.5?! That's better than I thought. I suspected 6-4 ABA's favor but 5.5?

Sol is near bottom of the C ranks. No way he's better than Faust or Ky. Sol are Anji are the bottom of the C. Top C IMO are Ky, Faust, Order-Sol. Everyone else is debatable. I take it Slayer is lower than Potemkin because Potemkin does better against Testament and Eddie.... Highly doubt he's worse than Jam and Baiken though.

Honest truth: I forgot Order-Sol had BHB. I haven't used it in months. Kinda like how I forgot he has a 6K too.

It does a lot of damage? Really? For shit and giggles I started throwing out SWs against the CPU in training mode and the damage was crap.

Well isn't this going nice? Reaver, what do you think LM AKira's guides are missing? I know you know that some things you must learn to apply yourself since we all face different opponents.

Somewhat, yes to a degree because everyone does that. If you can't go for a big damage combo and know that you're gonna get some little damage it's best to go for a knockdown to at least be at an advantage. Let's say you're at lvl.1. With little tension you hit your opponent. You know you can't get a decent damage combo and can't do a CC followup combo. So what do you do? Get a knockdown. You can still AC/manual to lvl up and/or get in close/pressure with oki. You're putting yourself at the advantage. When you do have the means to get that high damage combo you go for it.

The 'trick" is the timing. Never mash any attacks in GG since mashing does crap for you outside of Sol's GV and stagger/faint recovery. You can't hit it too early because then you can't connect all the attacks and might end up with the 2nd j.D whiffing. It's not hard to pull off since by the time Order-Sol is near the opponent there's a good chance you'll be at the right angle. And your opponent will float down a bit. That's kinda broad. Mainly becuase everyone uses the throw combo/basic knockdown/Rock it lvl.2 or 3/BRP lvl.3 and most of Order-Sol's combos can end with the same finishers or variations of the same enders. A basic with no JI is corner throw j.HS?>j.D>dj.HS.j.D>BRP. Basic gatlings for him are whatever ends in a knockdown. Starts with 5/2K ends with 2D. That combo doesn't knockdown and that's why no one uses it. Most people tend to aim for a knockdown with low damage strings with Order-Sol. You can use that string for a blockstring if you want to do a AC FRC string.

I remember that. Didn't know that was negative edging since I only learned what it was until earlier this year.

Negative edge his CC? Never thought of that.

First set the dummy to " counter= First hit" in training mode. 2D CH will give you a bigger window to CC then followup with 5K. That'll get you a feel for it. Input CC as soon as you can and release D to get the fastest recovery. That combo is a bit of a pain to pull off.

JaimeDL(Nocturnal on SRK) has good amount of matches and he started a new Garou thread on SRK. Pretty much learned Dong/Jae/Kain from the info I got from him.

Great vids DW. Seriously. Awesome work. Axl needs more rep!

Abominable K: -You have pretty much no poking game at all. Use more 2K,2S,5K,2P. You need to do block strings with GF FRC added to the mix. -Gotta get used to landing a hit THEN going into Grand Viper. -Never do GF close range without an FRC. That's asking for punishment. -When you land a hit and cannot go into a high damage combo, go for a knockdown and DO NOT OTG GF a grounded opponent. That's a really bad habit. Sol has to get his knockdowns in vs Venom. And why the lack BR in a short combo? That's what you should be doing instead of just doing GFs. -Never open with Bandit Bringer or Riot Stomp. -If you have no meter, focus on getting in and getting knockdowns, using pokes, throws, etc. Sol doesn't need meter to wreck anyone's face. If you get a knockdown you can do a meaty Gunflame or do OTG 2K>5S GF when they are in the corner. -The one I know you can punsih Venom using Fafnir is his 5D. -If Venom does Dubi Curve(the move when his strikes down then a ball comes out) outside of a combo you can punish with VV or to be a true bastard, GV. It's a free opening. -Work on those Sidewinder combos. It sucks to see you drop them halfway.

So aside from Slayer not having good wake up AA options, how is that fight even?

Slayer has no AA options?!!!!!! 5P,2S,6P, FB serve him pretty well.

I'm gonna redo my post Sunday. Add more stuff. Thanks for the feedback Reaver.

Understandable. I wouldn't say Sol really risks eating a monterous combo unless OS has 25% ready to punish Sol's 2D. I know Sol's 2D is -6F on block so yeah in terms of who can rely more on their 2D I'd say OS. I know, but with OS he can willingly eliminate his weakness so Wild Throw punishes aren't as easy to come by. About Gunblaze, an late jump in by Sol makes him safe againt Gunblaze because he'll recover fast enough to block. Jumping in on OS is much harder because As I said before, his throws are REALLY good and his low jump makes it even deadlier. I say play to win. If Sol is near and I'm at lvl.2, I'm ready. 160 isn't that bad so I wouldn't overlook that at all and lvl.3 rock it takes anyone straight into the corner.

Maybe they became experienced in your playstyle? Simple. I forgot to type it in. Never said it was required.... Right, so Sol willingly giving Order-Sol an easy window to charge up or rush him down is what he should do? If you get the timing down..... which out of itself isn't some easy thing to do. Yeah, you can do jump ins on Sol, not that I would advise it as something you should repeatedly do. Not to mention his VV which crushes all Order-Sol's jump ins. Order-Sol's jump isn't something that players have a seriously hard time reacting to. Just because the Sol's you fight fail to AA HOS doesn't all of them do. Okay, but Sol doesn't AA with 6P against Order-Sol. Since you brought in Japanese players, Kaqn and Isa had a match quite some time ago. I Kaqn jumped in on Isa, Isa AAed with VV RCed and did a SW combos and won the 1st round. You jump in with j.HS you better be sure Sol tries an 5K if you're so sure Order-Sol's j.HS will win. Also I've seen Sol's 2HS trade and even beat Order-Sol's j.HS. That goes both ways. Sol can do the same to Order-Sol. And on CH his 2D leads to a half life combo. GV or GF FRC or Fafnir clean hit. Good point. If you can by all means go for a backdash afterall I did post if you can beat Rock It strings with VV/GV. It's an option. Incorrect. Plenty of slow attacks can/will beat Sol's Wild Throw. Most tend to be used at a range in which he cannot land it anyway. Order-Sol backdashes, Sol's 5K can catch him. And against Sol this attack would be? I agree. My mistake. Should have not labelled the other style "offensive". That's were you got the "defensive" from. IIRC that can be said about ALL Order-Sol players. Never said it was an opposite. My mistake. Shouldn't have said "or". Or implied it. Isn't that what I said? Order-Sol ATTACKING Sol? Poking in? Rushing down? When I was writing that up I was pondering if I should have included a combination of both...

Wow Reaver... so I take it you've never seen anyone EVER back away in a GG match before? Even Sol players have thrown out a GF FRC and backed off. If you're so confident I take it you can block easily on reaction even the fastest pokes?

Matchup Statistics (I say)5.5-4.5 Match in Sol's favor. What some say: 5.5-4.5 Order-Sol's favor. If Order-Sol indeed does have the advantage it really isn't by much. Openers: Sol: -5K -2S -5S -2P -2k -move in(use above) -Nothing -5HS -j.P -late j.S -late j.HS Order-Sol: -Throw -2S -2K -2P -5K -nothing -move in(use above) -f.S -j.P -j.HS Okizeme: -Gunflame -2K -2P Punishes: *Any missed/blocked Storm Viper: -5K into SW combo. *blocked/whiff Storm Viper AC FRC: -Air throw *Savage Fang lvl.1(difficult). SF can crush your GF, blast you out of his face and give him time to gain at least 2 levels on his charge meter. It's 50% tension so don't expect it too often but it is an option. Afterall, do what it takes to win. Punish with: -FB Fafnir(you must catch him in the recovery of the move. Do it too early and no CH.) If no CH you still hit him and you can get in anyway. *Rock It lvl.1 block strings: -There is a gap before Rock It hits you. It's a small window but you can beat it with VV or if you're really good Grand Viper. This too is rather diffcult. Only do it if you're 100% sure you can. -Slash back the last hit of lvl.3 BRP and Rock It for free damage. -Gunblaze: throw *2HS -Backdash>Wild Throw Counters: -Order-Sol's f.S if it's not max range can lose to Sol's 2S for a CH. -5K beats his jump ins. -VV beats his jump ins. -Beat his 2HS mixups with VV. -If he fails to hitconfirm f.S/2S>6HS, you can back dash out of the 6HS to avoid the major block stun. -If you're skilled enough you can beat his 6K Oki with VV or if you're even better: Grand Viper. -2D beats OS' 6P/5K -5HS is safe from his Fafnir Anti airing: -5K -Volcanic Viper -Air throw Zoning -Gunflame -5S -2S -5K -2K -5HS Their gameplan Like Sol, Order-Sol is all about the rushdown. He'll aim to get and pressure you while building his charge meter. Thanks to safe windows such as AC FRC and Charge cancelling it's not too hard for him to attain charge meter. Because of his low jump chances are his jump ins can beat Sol's 5K. OS can zone you out with f.S like you can do him with 5HS. His throws can lead to huge chunk of damage in the corner so try to stay out of there. His sweet spot is you in the corner with up close. However like Sol, Order-Sol can wreck house outside of the corner. Strategy: Sol's objective to get in and stay in as usual. Sol's advantages are more range on his 5S and 5K and strong space control with Gunflame. This is a MAJOR advantage. Poke your way in since Sol does have the range advantage. Always GF FRC is to reduce chances of punishment. AA with 5K or VV. Always remember: If Order-Sol uses his SV in an aerial block string or tries to AA you with ALWAYS FD it. Sol should aim to stay in close as much as possible to attempt to limit Order-Sol(when he's not @lvl.3). You should try to slow down his charge while maintaining your offense. Stay out of the air as much as possible when close to him as it's really easy for him to air throw. End block strings with A)f.S B)2S C)GF FRC If he starts charging from afar 5HS and Gunflame FRC is what you do. Once he attains a lvl.3, start ending any blocked attacks with 2D and 5HS to push him out as much as possible. He hits that lvl.3 you don't want him in your face. Avoid getting in the corner because Order-Sol's corner game is really strong since a corner throw can lead to huge damage with KDs and tech traps. Stay out of the corner since as Sol, you can net huge damage anywhere. Be aware if he has tension for Fafnir since he actually doesn't need a CH to do a combo from it and it leads to huge damage. If you time your jump ins late you can avoid his Gunblaze as you'll be safe upon landing. Character specific details: Order-Sol's advantages are his ability to get frame advantage a lot easier than Sol(his 5K is +Fs on block and Gunblaze is +Fs on block as well, 5HS CCed gives +Fs, Rock It lvl.1, 2P). And he has a good amount of damage options via Fafnir/Gunblaze/lvl.2/3 specials/throw. His ground throw is REALLY good. It leads to KD or combo or charge or 2 out of 3 if not all three. His air throw is much more important because it leads straight to his oki and/or charge and because his low jump makes it easier for him to land an air throw. Order-Sol's mixups are a bit better than Sol's via BRP FRC, 2HS, throw, Gunblaze FRC and Gunblaze crossup. Keep in mind if Order-Sol gets two KDs on you via Action Charge he'll be borderline lvl.3. His Storm Viper beats all of Sol's jump ins so don't think j.HS is a great jump in option here. Technically you shouldn't be jumping in on him much anyway. Order-Sol is Sol so the strongest SW combo you can do on Sol works on him too. When it comes to 2D, Os' is much safer because his CC ability makes it safe and it can lead to a good damaging combo on hit whereas Sol's is always unsafe on block. --Member submitted info Order-Sol's weakness is that he has no way to safely cover himself to get in outside of Lvl.2/3 BHB AC FRC. Order-Sol lacks good close/mid range pokes like Sol's 5S and 5K so his options are Fafnir and f.S(this is why Slayer/Axl/Johnny are harder for him than for Sol). His 5K is about half the range of Sol's since it's only the 1st hit(the knee) His 5S functions better as an AA than a mid range poke and doesn't cover as much range as Sol's 5S. Sol also has a good tick throw setups that are better than Order-Sol's eventhough they're a bit more risky. What both Sol's are good at is getting people into the corner. And both their 2D on CH leads to a good damaging combo.