Arc Raizen

This is probably my favorite set of fights with Makoto in CP2. Player really shows off almost all Makoto's new stuff/fixed/buffed at some point in the fights. EGO (MK) vs Oji (RG)

I'd say Makoto can definitely do ODR > Astral. Hell, she can ODC any normal except for 5A/2A into Astral in 1.1 Side note: ODR > GETB is terrifying...

Are there lots of vids floating around that no one's posting? I've seen nothing other than the tourney from 3 days ago and the first day streams posted the other day.

This "Just Damage" is a joke right? Why would they add that and then why would they not announce it?

Ok guys, we got some concrete changes now, as can be seen here (be sure to watch the video if you can't read Japanese). It looks like her changes are basically what were seen in the loketest. Level 2 and Level G Drives can be special canceled. Shown in the video, we have 5CC > 5D(2) > 214C~C~CCC and 5CC > 2D(2) > 214B > j.B > j.D(2) > j.623C~D(3) and OD > 5CC > 5D > 214A~D > 2D > 214C~D > 623C~D > 236236D. Gonna be a massive change to basically her entire play style and change every combo. j.2C is no longer garbage. Hit stun looks a bit longer and the rebound has a different trajectory so you can follow up with j.C and even follow that up if you were low enough to the ground. Parry is a new move (input 214D) that has guardpoint. Damage seems to be lowered, and the bonus proration on level 3 probably is too. I assume the level 2 version can also be special canceled, but we do see a combo with level 3 that doesn't require heat: 214D(3) > 5B > 5CC > 214A~C~CCC Although not shown, I assume some changes we saw in the loketest remain, those being: j.D wallbounces midscreen and 2D(2) > 5B no longer works. Let the crazed hypothetical rants, baseless assumptions, and general madness begin!

Ask and ye shall receive Part 2: http://www.famitsu.com/matome/bbcp/ver2_7.html

Some of these changes are insane. Noel 5D fatal. Hakumen counters special and super cancel-able? Rachel bats usable with Sword Iris Hazama gets 3 chains now. Tager stomps you to death and gets combo-able 360's? Holy.... That being said, I hope the remaining/more changes come out quickly. I really dislike when they release part of something like this, leaving everyone who really cares about a part not out waiting around and all jealous...

Will we actually be able to get a stream of this or an archived video of it posted after-the-fact? We basically have nothing to go on for changes, but actual gameplay video(s) would be a hell of a start.

Fun Fact! I made a small compilation comparing her CS2 and Extend hitboxes way back, and I managed to find it. Poor poor Makoto hitboxes

BBS already has an OD version that just buffs the damage from the projectile so it's not getting any stronger like DD's that aren't already buffed in OD. BBS also has a long/unsafe startup. Very likely, if you OD cancel and go for BBS and you're opponent was still attacking, you'll get hit out of it.

Has anybody found or gotten their hands on a video of the Arc Revolution tournament? It's been over 2 weeks and I still haven't seen anything

And yet...adding wallbounce and cutting down the corner carry on Makoto, the character who most relies on the corner for damage and oki, seems like the right idea to them.

If Makoto wants neutral mix-up, she could already combo into it with Mars Chopper or Infinite Rush off of 5B or even air Meteor Dive ender if low enough, but she really doesn't want to. Makoto wants to put you in the corner and beat you until you can only twitch helplessly. j.D wallbounce leads to 2 possible conclusions: all of a sudden Makoto doesn't want/need the corner (highly unlikely) or her job getting you in the corner is that much harder. All I've seen from the loketest info and this short clip of her is them fixing problems with her that don't exist and leaving what is wrong with her to the wayside to suffer.

Makoto 2D(2) > 214B just looks silly and I can't see it adding anything and only taking away. It forces her to go straight to the air and I doubt she can go into 2D(3) off of it like before. At best I see 2D(2) > 214B > j.C > j.B |> 2D(1) > 5CC > Air Ender. And now when she goes into the air, j.D wallbounces midscreen. This seems horrible. It didn't look like it was comboable without rapid and completely guts her corner carry. I have no faith that Makoto will be viable in this patch; both those changes seem idiotic, and if anything, worse than pre-patch.

I believe it used to be called "Bottom-Tier Despair" during 1.0, then "Makoto-Tier Despair" in 1.1, but yeah...its not pretty. I don't think you can argue that a character with quite possibly 0 favorable match-ups in a cast of 28 characters isn't "awful." Not completely unplayable, "why even bother" bad, but clearly bottom of the barrel comparatively, especially to the top-tiers. The little we got from the loketest didn't seem promising either (read as: absolutely terrifying). I would much rather see characters balanced around mid-B to maybe low-A tier rather than everyone brought to high-A and up. As I see it right now, high-tier characters just do too well on too many fronts and don't have to work as hard to get as much as low-tier characters and/or get WAY more comparatively when both work as hard as that character can (within reason). Bringing everyone to low-tier ends up making matches more about sneaking in random 5A starter combos for 1.2k and becoming a battle of attrition because either your best-case scenario is extremely difficult or too risky to get to (or force your opponent into) or your even best output in an average-case scenario just isn't enough to make the risk of getting to execute it or completing the execution worthwhile. This can easily force your hand and make going for the worst-case/minimal damage in an average-case situation favorable just because you're at least guaranteed something. (For example: when I play Makoto, at least half the damage I do is from me sitting around and hitting a random 2A counter hit and doing a tiny follow-up rather than trying to wait for a more advantageous situation or risk going for more because I fear that if I try to, I will have thrown away too much damage to the opponent or myself while waiting for it and not getting enough payoff from it to make NOT doing that 2A combo worth it.) If instead the characters are all brought to a level where there is appropriate risk/reward in most cases for them, you would likely see better gameplay with characters willing to take more risks to get combos, damage and force situations that uniquely benefit their character and playstyle and actually see high-level combos and execution that show what each character is about because each character can actually afford to be themselves and actually going for these things is worthwhile, entertaining and reliably fun. As a slight note, I have made an extensive list of Makoto's combos from 1.0 with 1.1 variants and you'd be hard pressed to find any combo with worthwhile change in 1.1 and the vast majority of combos lose damage, whether its 20 damage or 400.

Yeah, if anyone can post a reupload when one is found, that would be amazing.

I'd rather her stay low-ish tier as long as she doesn't get radically re-worked every version of the game. Not only has she been bottom tier for several versions, she's had entire playstyle changes between almost every version (CS2 > Extend > CP). It's like I'm playing a new character rather than just a buffed/nerfed version. These changes, if legit and stay, already seem like damn near every combo she has now is thrown out the window and her entire game, especially midscreen, has to be re-written.

Because it requires you to have a fighting chance in order to actually struggle?

From another thread: Basically: I quit.

The only thing I can think of for the Level 2 cancels is Parry lvl 2 > something. However, I have been dreaming of the day when you could follow up Parry without a Rapid. 5D might not have enough hitstun to get anything good and even so I'd guess the current 2D(2) is better. Cosmic Ray is hard to say in the corner, but I only see it into Corona Upper for an ender in the corner or something. The only air special is Corona Upper so j.D, Lightning Arrow and Meteor Dive basically get nothing. Lander Blow is so risky to go for anyway it's probably not worth just to cancel into something else. I can't think of anything decent off of Comet Cannon. Unless it allows for some new pressure an mixups due to being cancelable on block and not just hit, then I'm very wary of this change being of any decent merit.

So why is it that Comet Cannon doesn't connect with the final 6th hit unless you are standing directly on top of the opponent? The difference between "directly on top of them" and "a few inches away" gives the enough time to get hit by your punch, fly backwards, and tech before the actual ball hits them. A bit of a minor annoyance, but still. I only noticed when I was just randomly testing Comet Cannon in midscreen to see if it could ever actually be made useful or have good resets or whatnot (spoilers, not really). If you do something like 2C > 214B > j.C |> 236A~D or 2C > 214A~A > 6A > 236A~D and they touch the ground before the 236A~D hits, you'll always miss the last hit. But if you do 2C > 214B > j.CB |> 236A~D and hit them in the air, it works fine. Again, very minor because it's basically useless anyway, but still. What luck, this squirrel. Also as a PSA, I have been making minor additions to my combo list in the combo thread now and again. If you haven't looked at it since I originally posted it shortly after the patches release, it might contain something new for you to play with. Maybe not the best stuff, but at worst stuff you might not have seen or thought of to springboard new stuff off of. And if anyone has anything I don't have, I'll gladly add it and credit you. If you haven't seen my combo list, its one the last posts in the combo thread.

I can only hope for hints of a patch before Arc Revo since thats still months away, but I do realize its more likely nothing until it. Even if they started a new patch, it wouldn't release until after Arc Revo. And more nerfs? It's almost not possible. They gave her more tools that are about 90% useless and then nerfed one arguable best move. It can't get much worse unless they increase charge time on all D moves. Edit: Whelp.....I was wrong. Very very very very happy I was wrong.

So BB at EVO 2014 is over, with only 1 confirmed Makoto player that I know of (and he lost) out of 500+ entrants, it basically confirms that she is not viable competitively at all. Maybe this shows the devs that something needs to be done?

Not really sure what can be said to help. I find it easy too, so it must be something random that just requires practice. If you keep dashing past time, maybe wait a few frames after you lander after 214B~D to give them time to fall lower and be more careful to do a really quick 6623C motion all in one go, rather than a separate dash and 623C input. One thing that's really been bugging me for quite a long time, does anybody have any really useful Rapid Cancel combos? Back in CS2, for example, doing 5B>5CC>5D(2)>RC>2C>Shenanigans was almost always worth doing, but ever since CP came out, I've never really found any situations where using a Rapid has a positive result that's almost always worth going for (aside from bizarre near-death OD setups). It feels like such a waste to only use Rapids to safe your ass after you screw up or to do pressure (which is bad enough that Makoto NEEDS rapids to do decent high/low mixup pressure).

There is a separate combo thread where I have a post in which I've compiled a long list of possible combos and their damages, as well as any other combos posted by other users. Feel free to take a look at that. I have two separate notes as well. First, you should probably leave out 5C from 5B>5C>6C>214A~C>236D, since the proration from the 5C will end up lowering the damage on longer combos a bit and it also gives you more time in the rest of the combo. Second, because of the nerfs/*cough*changes*cough* to j.B, doing j.B>j.D late in combos is either far more difficult or even impossible since the patch. You basically have to do j.D early in a combo and suffer from less-than-optimal proration from it, or leave it out entirely.