Elochai

I have an Xbox copy but I don't have Live (lol). I'm planning to get Live soon though. Alternatively, if you want feedback on your play, you could always use the critique thread. Edit: I'll get a Live card while I'm out tonight. If you're around later in the night we can try our connection. Edit 2: Here's something I'm curious about: does proration affect freeze time? I've been trying to come up w/ combos using ghastly wail, but during longer combos, the opponent is always able to recover from the ice before I can do wail. I'm curious if this is proration at work or something else.

GGs to those I played today. The one & done is really, really strong right now. Only one player didn't one & done me .

I have a P4U2 lobby open if anyone on EC wants to come through. Open for an hour or so. GGs Monz/randoms. Be back tomorrow when I have more time to play! (hope you enjoyed the matches Toan lol)

You can eliminate that 2C issue if you walk backwards a little bit before doing 2C. I usually hold back while I'm doing SB Garu and then hold it for like an extra second before inputting 2C. As long as you got to 2C's maximum charge or you didn't charge it all the way, I believe you can punish the opponent if they break it. I'm not entirely sure since I don't really use it unless I'm doing it for oki. Let us know what you find out in your testing.

I kinda feel like Liz's neutral isn't that much different. You're still throwing out jB/5C/Zio etc. I think baiting people with 2D isn't a bad idea, but like anything else, if you punish them enough times, they learn to respect your pressure. After you've gotten them to stop hitting buttons, you should press the advantage imo. I would also agree that 2[C] in the corner is pretty good. Sweep>awakening sb garu>5C is universal afaik. Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

In regards to pre-awakening garudyne, it seems as if you can't really do the 2x garu shorthandedly. The only characters who bounce high enough for something like 5AA>2AB>236CD[2]>2AB>whatever are Adachi, Yukari, and Sho/Minazuki. If you do 236CD[3], you can get it to work on Marie too. I haven't really tested xx>236CD[2]>2B>jc jB, but it seems to generally follow the same rule. If you wanna go for (nearly) maximum damage, it's looking like you gotta actually learn how to do xx>236CD[8~2] on the entire cast (for what it's worth, raw 236CD[2] bounces the opponent super high so you can just go for 2AB afterwards in that scenario). Also, I dunno if anyone noticed this, but air turn jC seems to drag the opponent out of the corner. You can do whatever>sb bufu>dash air turn jC>falling jA/2A. When I first got my hands on the game, the recovery on zio threw me off so hard for like 2 weeks straight. Edit: here's a video of that jC thing

Doesn't this result from the JP version having all of the DLC characters whereas the NA version doesn't? I would imagine that players with the NA version would have to wait until Margaret is released to play against those with the JP version. Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Well there aren't really any awakening garu loops (off of grounded hits like 5B); it's all just stuff>236CD[2]>2B/5B>whatever. If you thought garu loops were hard, I suppose that you could say this is easier. I mean, in the first game, you could've always done something like 5B>2AB>236CD[2]>5B>stuff, and that works here too.

Have you tried adjusting the garudyne? Try only going up slightly before going down. I find that if you hold 8 too long, you land too late. Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Well there isn't a video thread or anything so I guess I'll just leave these here . Three hours of Kubo playing Margaret vs various people: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24562214 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24562289 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24562319

Well since TD answered your first question in part, The most common knockdowns are from 2AB or jC. Options after knockdown kinda depend on where you are on the screen in relation to your opponent imo. If you knocked them down with a combo into 2AB for example, you could just opt for 2D and then do something like dash up 5A. If you score a knockdown with jC you can generally go to 5C unless you notice that your opponent starts rolling on their wakeup. Then you can either opt for 5D to make them respect you (since 5D will CH the roll) or you can opt for 2C, which not only catches rolls, but jump away attempts too. If you're close enough to your opponent, you can do airdash jB into whatever pressure you want. The general combo theory between awakening and regular mode is kinda similar. Some combos don't work in awakening, but you can always adjust parts of regular combos so that they work in awakening. For example, you can't do airhit move>2AB>236D[8~2]>5B>stuff in awakening, but you can do something like airhit move>2AB>236D[2]>jC>j236CD[2]>5B>stuff. There are some combo routes which are specific to awakening as well (like 5B>5C>214A>jD>whatever). I think you should just be cognizant of how awakening changes her moves, and you'll be fine. I would say that the changes that her moves get in awakening affect her neutral more than they do her combo routes.

Relatively easy confirms off of the awakening 236B crossup in the corner: 236B FC>2AB>236D[2]>jC>j236CD[2]>2D>2A>5A>5AA>5B>5C(2)>2C>214AB>set 236B>5B = 4297(+poison damage),50SP. 236B FC>2AB>2B>delay jB>5B>2B>jc jB>jA>jC>2A>5B>5C(2)>2C>214AB>set 236B>5B = 4019,25SP.

Totally forgot to respond to this, but I don't believe it does. Using Adachi jC as an example, Randomizer won't activate when Adachi jumps over you, but Elizabeth will still block the attack. I'm not sure if you could autocorrect a charge though.

I think you can mitigate the risks of using 5C if you backdash cancel it. IIRC if you BDC the first hit, then Thanatos disappears and he's unable to be hit. You kinda give up further pressure if you do this though since the next persona move you throw out will have Thanatos appear in front of you. Regardless, the use of neutral 5C is a bad habit. Especially since being persona broken is more dangerous now. I do however think that Thanatos pressure is good after you've conditioned your opponent. We always have to spend meter to convert off of the hits, but 3/4 options give us 4K~ for like 25 meter anyways. Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Thanks for watching/critiquing my match. I don't necessarily believe that that comment is too far off. I would openly admit that I'm kinda afraid of fighting Yukiko and I did try to mash out a few times where I shouldn't have. I suppose this is a recurring problem that I have. I'm way too reliant on Thanatos (or I'm not too smart about where I call him) and more often than not, being persona broken leads to me not being able to finish the match. Perhaps I'm just too wild and I don't know when to stop or something. I'll definitely try rolling next time! Thanks. I think this is the nicest thing someone has said about my play lol. I don't think I'm that good yet, but I'm flattered nonetheless! Thanks again for giving me feedback. Edit: Oh, I forgot to mention. About that 5AA>OMC, that was me trying to take his burst. It was a hard read, and it didn't pay off. If you get 5A FC though, you can do that without the combo dropping!

Here's a set of me vs Zealous' Yukiko @ GUTS3. http://www.twitch.tv/gameunderground/b/570508273?t=0h43m19s

Midscreen, normal mode: 5B>1HSM 5C(2)>IAD jB>5B>5C(2)>2C>214B = 3101,0SP. (Point blank) 5B>1HSM 5C(2)>dc 2AB>236D[8~2]>5B>5C(2)>2C>214AB>214D>jB>j2B>jC = 4509,25SP. 2B AA CH>jC>j236CD[8~2]>2AB>236D[8~2]>5B>5C(2)>2C>214AB>214D>jB>j2B>jC = 4605,50SP. 2B AA CH>2AB>236D[8~2]>5B>5C(2)>2C>214B = 3017,0SP. Fullscreen 5C(2) CH>2C>214AB>214D>5B>2AB>236D[8~2]>5B>2B>jc jB>j2B>jC = 4289,25SP. 2AB AA FC>2B>jB>5B>2AB>236D[8~2]>5B>5C(2)>2C>214AB>214D>jB>j2B>jC = 4624,25SP. (the height for this to work is kinda odd; usually works on an opponent around narukami dp height) Ken DP punish: 2[C] airhit CH>5C(1)>214AB>214D>5B>2AB>236D[8~2]>5B>2B>jc jB>j2B>jC = 3574,25SP. 236D airhit CH>2B>jB>66 5B>5C(2)>2C>214AB>214D>5B>2B>jc jB>j2B>jC = 4550, 25SP. Awakening, midscreen: (Point blank) 5B>1HSM 5C(2)>dc 2AB>236D[2]>jC>j236CD[2]>2D>5A>5AA>5B>5C(2)>jC = 4167,25SP. 5B>1HSM 5C(2)>IAD jB>5B>5C(2)>2C>214AB>2[C]>236AB>dash 5B(1)>2B>jC = 3825,50SP. Ken DP punish: 236D CH airhit>jC>j236CD>2D>2A>5A>5AA>5B>5C(2)>2C>214AB>2[C]>236AB = 4516,75SP.

Midscreen normal mode: 5A>5AA>5B>2AB>236CD[8~2]>2AB>236D[8~2]>5B>5C(2)>2C>214AB>214D>2AB>2D = 4150,50SP. Slightly more damage than Bace's 5A route.

Has anyone really messed around with 2[C] oki in awakening? For all intents and purposes, I would say it's almost as strong as 236B oki. I was mainly interested in using 2[C] since 236B loses to roll (not that anyone has rolled it anyway, but I guess they just don't know you can?) and I wanted a setup that would beat roll for me. If the opponent mashes out of as fast as possible & rolls, their roll will get CHed by DP. Everything else from 236B applies (you get a safejump* high/low mixup) but you can't crossup; at least I haven't been able to time this in a way where Liz has enough time to IAD backdash into the corner. Even if they don't shake out of the ice fast enough and 2C hits, you still get 1HSM & they're still in the corner. The only way I can see to catch rolls w/ 236B oki is to pretend that you're using 214C oki from the last game. IE you have to wait and see if they roll before committing to a mixup/pressure. Maybe there's a way of doing this that I'm not seeing or something. * = Against Narukami, unsure about anyone else. Edit: I thought that 214AB's freeze time was longer in awakening, but it seems that I was wrong. You can use 2[C] oki even after 214AB in regular mode. All the same stuff applies. Maybe it's the go-to oki?

9/13 TSB Suplex Sore Omnisscythe (AD) vs Elochai (EL) Omnisscythe (AD) vs Elochai (EL) Omnisscythe (MIN) vs Elochai (EL) Lord Knight (MI) vs Elochai (EL) Lord Knight (MI) vs Elochai (EL) NecroUndine (TE) vs Elochai (EL) NecroUndine (TE) vs Elochai (EL) NecroUndine (TE) vs Elochai (EL) Lord Knight (MI) vs Elochai (EL) Lord Knight (MI) vs Elochai (EL)

I'm not sure about what's the most widely accepted one, but the most recent tier list afaik is Souji's. For whatever it's worth, I think Souji's list is more or less accurate.

Setora's midscreen awakening combo: 5A>5AA>2AB>236CD>214B>2D>5B>5C(2)>214A>2C>236AB>66 2AB = 3567 (w/out including poison damage),50SP. 5A>5AA>2AB>236CD>214B>2D>5B>5C(2)>214A>2C>236AB>66 5B>2B>jC = 3644, 50SP.

Elizabeth awakening combo tutorial by Setora (nicovideo)

GGs to everyone I played today. I finally triumphed over the mighty LucaNet . Haha, I expected you to win more honestly. I could hardly block anything. GGs nonetheless!

Sounds good. I shot you an FR in advance.