Zephyrion22

Here are some troll wake-up mixups out of 2D/236K midscreen knockdown. They kinda work against characters with slower wake-ups (i.e Elphelt/Sin) or against people sleeping on you.The sweep has more untech time, making the setups tighter/better, if you're ready to forsake the damage. So you do 2D/236K>microdash jump forward and then - late air backdash jH>j214S or j.P(whiff)>2K cross-up overhead or low, the high option can be DPed/backdashed, but not mashed out of, but the low can be mashed out easily - early air backdash>jD>j214S : fake cross-up overhead, can be mashed out so don't overuse it -early airbackdash >earliest jD(whiff)> 2K : troll mixup, easiiy mashed out of, but the glide effect will make you land on one side or another depending on how you time your moves. It's bad but it's weird enough you can surprise people with it, especially if they expected the normal j.D -late air backdash YRC>j.K. Only legit and consistent one out of them all : This one is really good when you have your back to the corner for the sideswap. The YRC turns this into safe-jump thanks to the gliding effect, and sometimes lets you see a Blitz/backdash that you can stuff accordingly. if they respect, you have the classic empty low/j.D double overhead mixups out of it. -early air backdash >YRC>j.H>j214S : fake cross-up. This one is an oddball. Safe-jumps/forces most of the DPs to whiff if done early. for it to work, you'll need to YRC at a specific time so that the j.H auto-corrects to face the other direction to grant you a cross-up j.H that will connect with j214S. The j.H gets cross-up protection if you do it safe-jump, so you'll have to play with the timings to either eat reversals or get the cross-up. The j.214S will still ignore cross-up protection if you slightly delay it (still comboes out of jH). A good gimmick to psych them up if they don't know about it ! -slightly delayed air backdash>YRC>jK(whiff)>2K : fake cross-up low, instead of the usual cross-up safe jump. Reactable if you expect it, but you have a lot of watch, so this works surprisingly often. You'll be out of throw range when you do this, so reversal throws are not possible here. The cross-up/non cross-up are reactable, but the YRCs and the high/low layers make it that much harder to disrespect you on wake-up, and still make this harder to guard than classic mixups. As usual with this kind of setup, get ready to bait the Blitzes and backdashes when using the safe-jumps, and don't rely too much on this kind of mixup. The less you use them, the more efficient they become !

Sin combo/setup tutorial by A3Religion on Xrd 1.0. Most of those combos are known and almost every one of them still work in 1.1, I guess it's good as a visual cue. Also, interesting burst safe variations of combos (discard the YRC OS one as it is not possible anymore in 1.1), and mixup possibilities out of midscreen Voltic Dein (some of them are here just for show and some others are valid options). All in all, some very good stuff with a few useless things, but definitely worth a watch for any Sin player looking to step up his combo/oki game ! A3Religion's Growing Boy Sin Tutorial GGXRD1.0

Same tournament : Block C 2015/5/2 Katsuyama(Sin) vs Matsusai(Elphelt) 2015/5/2 Katsuyama(Sin) vs SPT(Zato) 2015/5/2 Katsuyama(Sin) vs 2rio(I-no)

A-cho 3vs 3 KSB archives block B : Unfortunately didn't watch the other videos yet, but here is a footage of a really good Sin (I assume it's Kabegiwa no DC, a former Johnny god, unless somebody is trolling with his arcade handle) against many other good players ! 2015/5/2 Kabegiwa no DC (Sin) vs Axl 2015/5/2 Kabegiwa no DC(Sin) vs Matsusai(Elphelt) 2015/5/2 Kabegiwa no DC(Sin) vs Swampen(May) 2015/5/2 Kabegiwa no DC(Sin) vs Koyake(Venom) 2015/5/2 Kabegiwa no DC(Sin) vs Hasegawa(I-no) 2015/5/2 Min(Sin) vs Defure(Faust) 2015/5/2 Kabegiwa no DC(Sin) vs SPT(Zato) 2015/5/2 Kabegiwa no DC(Sin) vs Ramlethal 2015/5/2 Kabegiwa no DC(Sin) vs SPT(Zato) x 2 2015/5/2 Kabegiwa no DC(Sin) vs Sol 2015/5/2 Kabegiwa no DC(Sin) vs SPT(Zato) 2015/5/2 Kabegiwa no DC(Sin) vs Sol 2015/5/2 Kabegiwa no DC(Sin) vs SPT(Zato) x 2 2015/5/2 Kabegiwa no DC(Sin) vs Uki(Sol) 2015/5/2 Ruu(May) vs Kabegiwa no DC(Sin) 2015/5/2 Kuro(Millia) vs Kabegiwa no DC(Sin) 2015/5/2 Efute(May) vs Kabegiwa no DC(Sin) 2015/5/2 Kuro(Millia) vs Kabegiwa no DC(Sin) 2015/5/2 Kabegiwa no DC(Sin) vs Ain(Ky) 2015/5/2 Kabegiwa no DC(Sin) vs Eki-chan(Millia)

This is situational, but for those who don't know, If you have 100 meter with your back in the corner, and you are really desperate, you can do this : R.T.L(632146H)6~7(sideswap)~6>RC>236[H]>214S>236{H](WS)*2>214K>j.6H>c.S>5H for 305 damage on Sin (I think Sol has roughly the same guts so) plenty of possible versions/optimizations of this combo depending on how high you hit with the beak, character weight etc, but the charged Beak always work when you do it this way, and always grants hilarious damage and combo possibilities, so consider doing this if you need to steal a round really badly.

Also, don't forget the "more situational, but still does the trick" j.D YRC. You time the jD just out of their anti-air range, then YRC it, and punish their recovery with j.S or j.6H if they used as standing AA (Most 6Ps). What's nice about it is that if you miscalculated the AA timing/height/reach, the YRC should let you put your FD in time to avoid getting blown up too hard !

I put the optimized combos on the wiki, and honestly, most of the weight changes are not that hard in the end ! When you get used to it, you can actually just modify your combo on sight since you have a lot of time to decide what to do after bull bash or j6H because of their huge hitstun ! It's only a bit finnicky on lighter characters, but mid and heavy weights are just "bleh they are lower, add more hits" really. Also the advantage of the optimized version is that you can control your calorie consumption easily : just skip a loop when you can't afford doing a second one, or end the combo with the second Bull bash to get a refill along with a good meaty on midweight and heavier characters (or 5H oki, it's really good too for that purpose) As far as confirms go, your routes are really good for "on the fly pickups" as you said. It also reminded me I completely forgot to put the 236K whiff route on the wiki ! So thanks for the input^^

Here's some footage of an online EU mini-tourney, with my terrible Sin gameplay xD https://youtu.be/l9rKcwUj__A?t=7117(Sin vs Ky : 3 matches) https://youtu.be/l9rKcwUj__A?t=9745(Sinvs Ram : 2 matches) I already know these need URGENT fixing - Overusing backdash and K Leap + j.6H : I really need to use true jump-ins and be more patient at neutral instead of yolo approach and retreat -Too predictable on neutral : not enough dash brakes, not enough patience, and not 6P fishing. - I usually vary my pressure a bit more, but I know it's an issue with me, and it showed a lot here - some crazy chokes most notably against Ramlethal - Missed some easy hitconfirm or went for the wrong enders. - It's online, but I should still block more mixups than I did. -Generally grew too impatient when on the defensive, and didn't implement IB and FD well enough (mostly due to MU inexperience but I still could have done more there) - subpar meter usage, notably throwing Dead Angles and neutral YRC like candy - Bad or debatable Bursts. -Calorie management, in more ways than one (suggestions are welcome) Got really jumpy in the first match, but I played Elphelt in the previous sets, and didn't adjust properly ! I know there's a lot more I probably didn't spot, so please, go ham and tell me all the things I did wrong and let's hope, a few things that were right !

Strategy section for wiki is over ! Re-organized into a classic "neutral/offense/defense" format, corrected a few wrong things, along with minor tweaks. Added a quick part about mixup + defensive tools, and a quick overview on burst baiting. I won't add major content to it anymore (It's already something like three times what I originally planned for the wiki), but I'm still on the look-out for possible errors/new info ! Again, I'm open for corrections/input on what to add/remove or suggestions on how to edit it for being more lisible !

Incredibly solid play with Sin ! you play the character really well ( a lot better than I do that's for sure xD), with a good defense, solid execution, and good offense, and you also clearly showed you have a good grasp of the matchup, especially how you played the neutral game ! You already covered the few things you could have done. I just will add a few points, mostly little details 5:29 : You missed you air chain, I'm not sure if it's just an execution blunder, or if you were surprised by the wallsplat. In any case, whenever you're not sure how the corner will mess with your confirm, you can do whatever into>j.P> j.S>j.K> jump cancel> delay >j.S>j.K> j236H. 8:23 : Great Elk Hunt YRC here ! against Bedman you should replace the j.P by a j.K if you jump cancel forward to avoid him going the other way and keep him in the corner, or use a neutral jump with your j.P 9;23 : Nice pressure patterns ! when RISC is cranked up like that, consider using rising j.H, especially after j.6H : if both Rising jH and j214S counter, you get huge meterless confirms for something your opponent will likely not expect.! For the rest of the video, Here are a few pointers that might help you get better results -You have a very good guard and play patient when on the defensive which is a really good point when you're a Sin player. However, you should try to escape pressure a bit more actively : if you don't want to commit to DP, don't forget you have backdash YRC which is very useful against mixups, and fuzzy jumps : Bedman's airdash pressure loses to these, and they are not too risky to throw out every once in a while.. - Be really careful with Dusts, Sin's 5D is safe but still means a relatively free escape if blocked. It's very slow and telegraphed, so better players will block it most of the time. The more you used it, the more it played against you. -As far as the matchup goes, your neutral was right on point for the most part. While you played the pressure game really well, I feel you missed a few occasions to apply more pressure. You don't really want to play the neutral game against Bedman, given how he can get a snowball effect from one hit, so don't hesitate going in whenever you have 5k calories or more (which you did quite a few times). Bedman being slow and having only one bad metered reversal means he is one of the few characters on whom you can go to town without spending too much calories on special cancels, so you should abuse that

Thing with Dp>K Leap [6] is that is not throwable on reaction when used with the DP simply because you're probably very close when you commit to DP, so by the time they jump to throw you, if they didn't straight call it out, you'll be at the other side of the screen before they can throw you. I almost never got thrown out of it using it this way, (then again I really don't abuse risky stuff like that in general), and it got me out of the corner a few times. And it's not something related to player level, I dummy recorded it and played it randomly along with 623S>236K, and it's just incredibly hard to just react to it and airthrow punish reliably, as the window for doing so is incredibly tight. It's just an option to keep in mind , but I think it's a fairly decent one.

Also adding quicky that it's really easy to force his DP to whiff, which is really bad due to its awful recovery when used alone, which is CH state all the way to the end (only classic reversal with CH recovery, along with Sol's Kick follow-up on his DP) so if it get baited correctly, you're gonna get wrecked like there is no tomorrow. Also, don't tell this to our fellow Sol and Ky players, but every DP in the game can punish Sin's DP, regardless of whether he used a follow-up or not (only exception is Beak Driver, non IBed, and from literally point blankest of point blanks). As for calorie consumption,if you don't want to fall short of calories later, don't forget one special cancel follow-up that is useful if used sparingly enough : K leap[6]. This is calorie free and actually surprisingly hard to punish if you didn't expect it, which happens more often than not given the fact that Elk Hunt/Beak Driver are our main follow-up for it on block.

Sin's DP is good in the middle of most of the char strings since in this game most of the moves extend your hurtbox as well. You'd be surprised at what it can stuff. But yeah, blocking correctly, backdashing and 2Ping through holes are probably your best bet

Basic and most reliable air string is j.S>j.P>j.S>dj>j.S>j.6H>j214S>j236H : the good thing about it is that you can adjust mid-combo just by putting delays between the first jumps normals + jump cancel (the less delay the higher you get and the lower they are). Issue is that opponent can air tech after j236H whenever the combo have prorated a little. Next most reliable strings are jS>j6H>j214S>j236H for damage and jK>jS>j.6H>236H for easy KO + calorie economy. All the other chains are good too, but you need to know in which cases and against which char they work/don't work. Lastly, whenever you go for air combos from 5H>6H, delaying the 6H so it hits them at the perfect height is often your best choice !

First update of the combo section in DL wiki is done. I tried to include all the technology I've seen from matches (most notably Gaku's Voltic into refill combos) + stuff from the combo thread, But I probably missed quite a few interesting combos, so let me know if you feel something is missing.!

Do note that the new effect on 623S allows you to go into 5H loop from any starter in the corner : just do stuff >2D (you can do 236K but less calorie efficient) > 623S(blue) >214K > jS (>jP)>jK>5H into loops. Giiven how Blue DP kills damage, you're better off going for a Voltic Dein setup this time around Also don't forget that 214S is a great knockdwown, as it gives a refill and allows you to pressure afterwards, so doing 236K>623S>214S>214H might be viable in some situations. Also here is a completely gimmicky corner-to-corner combo to set a Voltic Dein on mid and heavy characters (works on lighter chars but the distance at the end of the combo is not optimal) for 100 tension (only ! xD) stuff>cS Jump Install>2D>623S(blue)>214K[6]>jK>jS>j236H>RC>airdash>dash 5K>5H>delay 236K>236H> Voltic the damage is not worth spending so much meter, but hey it's classy, and we all need a classy useless combo in our bag !

Well, speaking of walls of text, I almost finished dustloop's strategy section for Sin, I also edited it a bit to make it less wall-ey so it should be easier to navigate between the different sections for information. Again, if you don't have anything better to do, feel free to read it, correct, add or suggest things that would make it more accurate, understandable or lighter, or whatever, This wiki section is mostly the result of what I've seen from JP players along with a few infos from evernotes and JP tweets so I'm pretty sure there are a lot of improvements to be made. I also intend to clean up the combo section soon-ish to make it a bit more up-to-date !

You have an universal route in the corner : stuff >2C>dash 2B>6A>delay jB>jC>5A>air ender. you can also use the delay jB>jC it with Volante midscreen if you time it so that the projectile hits as late as possible. While these routes are harder, they are completely universal ! and yeah, the j2C change is really bad, I just meant that the move is still somewhat useful, but it clearly took a big hit.

At least it is somewhat safe when used as a cross-up because of how far you bounce and still allows you to confirm from fuzzy overheads (which are a lot more scarce, thanks for the new 2D guys) It is still a good tool, you just can't throw it on a whim anymore.

6P is surprisingly finnicky to use, you'll need a lot of training and matches to get used to it and know what it beats out. Its startup is kinda decent for a 6P but you have to hit it really late, but not too late, otherwise, their jump-in will go under your waist and beat your upper body invul. Just dummy train it against good air normals until you get the hang of it ! About confirms, same story. you need to be aware of the distance at which it hits, and more importantly if it hits counter or not (you get confirms like 214S> leap > sutff from far + high counter). If it hits counter from up close, you can delay your 5S to make the route more stable and so on. Again, dummy training is the best option there, as mastering confirms from 6P is detrimental to Sin's game. In the end 6P is your main anti air but not the only one. air-to-air is pretty damn important if you don't want your 6P to end up as bait material. I find jK to be an awesome air to air (great gatlings and reverse gatlings on hit and block, comes out fast, hits far and all around Sin) that can net solid damage when you properly convert from it. For example, if you're not too far from the corner you can jK>jS>j236H(2)>RC>air dash> land >5H>623S into usual confirms. 5H is a situational AA that I sometimes use preemptively against slow but deep-hitting jump-ins (think May jH) or some 6P baits (think Elphelt air Bridal Express) because of its surprisingly good vertical hitbox. Be wary though, it also has an extended hurtbox, huge whiff recovery and no invul, meaning that you need to be 100% sure your move is coming out first and actually hitting something. I didn't know 6H had invul, and if it does have some, it's probably too short/too partial to be really useful for that purpose. I mainly use it for whiff punishing when I want to squeeze more damage than with f.S. The good thing about it is that even if I somehow failed and it's blocked, I still end at +2 with good special + jump cancel options. Counter-hitting with this hurts so damn much that it can be worth your bet if you called out a move with counter hit recovery or simply to stuff something with a slow startup. Again should you fail, you can still YRC it for safety. It's still a somewhat situational move but it has its uses. Erf, I wanted to be short but it ended up as a wall of text again xD. Hope this was helpful ! Also, A video thread would be great as seeing more Sin players is always a good thing !

Sin isn't really an oki character, since you'll often go for a refill after a knockdown but here are some classic okizemes for the times you have enough calories to go for pressure. - after 236K/2D ,you can meaty 2K/5K at the right distance into various frame traps/pressure resets, meaty 3K at max distance to bait all of the classic DPs or wait 214P[ hold 6 for a little while] deep jK/jS/jHS for safe jumps. -after 236K/2D >236H[2] you can either 214K[6] > low airdash > delayed jK/JS or run a bit 214K[6] > deep jK/jS for safe jumps. You can also 214K[6] right on spot and you should have just enough time to use a meaty. Once they respect your safe jumps, you can go for mixups by adding jDs after the air attack, or go low/throw and hope you're not getting thrown yourself. If they try to Blitz it, you can just land and smack them with a good old point blank sweep into tons of damage. Bull Bash (214S) as an anti jump-out and Elk Hunt(236K) for frame advantage on oki are also good options after a knockdown if you are at range, but you must have 25 meter to YRC them. If you don't, the other player can (and will) just Blitz you/DP you out of it constantly. Once you established they can't just press buttons on your oki, you can go wild and be creative, like run up jH > RC into confirms or whatever.

Personally, I tend to play keep away, annoying people with 236P/j236P and walking back and forth, until they try to approach, and then try to stuff them with 6Ps and other normals , or whiff punish with TK task B (always with 25 tension or more if I ever screw up my timing or something) and work from there. Of course I'll play a lot more agressively against characters who can counter this strategy easily (hello Ramlethal...) and try to cover my approach with task A when possible and inch my way through !

This is partially true. Aside from the fact Milia can chase you (which is how the okizeme works as you said, since it doesn't hit meaty), Sin's slow wake-up makes it incredibly hard to do consistently without the orb ramming into you again once the invincibility ends and forcing you back on the ground, even when she doesn't commit to anything.. This is still the only answer to her oki though, thanks for pointing it out !

Vault IS risky to pull off, but if you want to punish it, you'll have to constantly look out for it, and maybe eat something else in the process. That's why I tried to mention basic conditioning. nobody is supposed to eat any Dust and yet even the best players eat one every once in a while. Vault in pressure when used sparingly is your best way of forcing your way back on the opponent, and give you an opportunity to mix them up/ make them trip up. Besides you have enough moves/mobility options from vaulting to avoid obvious air throws or sloppy jump out mashes. I completely agree that constantly vaulting is really bad though : Like any slow mixups, it grows stale pretty fast and can cost you dearly when overused ! Also, edited my previous post on jS > j6H. After testing, doesnt work on Ky, May, Milia, Chipp and Faust out of Vault or IAD (except when they use specific normals). : you have to go for raw j6H in punish situations, or settle for jH>stuff or jS>jK if they are standing. Thanks for pointing it out !

There is a misconception about jS>j.6H : It works on most standing chars ( Ky, Milia, Chipp May and Faust are too small, even standing, for this to work)and whiffs on every crouching char . It has two uses : -During pressure, gaining more advantage/RISC + vacuum for your jump-in and getting good mixup opportunities after it ONCE you've conditioned your opponent to respect and stand block your Leap (after having used leap jH> jD or j214S to kill bad AAs, or used 214S> leap so that they keep standing, and taught them to respect your leap options). In the case they crouched it, jS will whiff and if they don't react in time, j.6H becomes a throw. - Calling out projectiles or any standing pokes, and catch them in standing recovery for optimal punishes (can be done with IAD if used that way) for the 5S,5H,6H you can sometimes replace 5S by 5P/2P/5K or omit it and go directly into 5H in some cases to make your routes more stable on some characters. mainly combo and character dependent, so test out what works best for your combo !