TITANIUM BEAST!!!

Steve H is on another level. I don't think he has the most optimum Ky, but his sheer skill makes up for it big time.

EDIT: Just confirmed that it is a typo. All moves cause one additional frame of hitstun on crouching, except for Level 1 moves. "This chart is still being researched for accuracy". And I'm sure you've played other Kys. That's just what I saw from that match, which is admittedly one match in a vacuum. Some examples would be doing regular j.D as you were running in on him, doing Charge SE when you teched and IADed in on him, just generally not really aware of his spacing when doing certain actions, etc. He obviously knows what to do once he's knocked you down and cornered you, but the rest of the match didn't make him look so good at getting in that position. Also FDing your GB spam, that's a classic no-no when playing versus HOS. I think we tend to take for granted that not many people actually know how to fight this character. Both of those counters require you to at least have somewhat of a read on your opponent. Again, depends on who is behind the sticks etc etc etc.

Brandino: no disrespect meant to your local comp, but you have likely never played a Ky player who really knew the matchup. I watched the match between you and Ukyo, and while he was not a bad player by any means, he really didn't know how to play the neutral properly in that matchup. This is why I said it really depends on who you're playing. He took a lot of risks in the neutral game that ended up getting him hit and put back on defense. It's easy to make Ky look like no big deal when you get in on a Ky player for free. As far as ways around Stun Edge, none of those ways really allow you to gain ground on Ky. Yes, they prevent you from being locked down by a SE, but they don't put you in a position where you have a tangible advantage; you're just better equipped to deal with the next incoming threat. That's why I said neutral goes more easily for you if you are willing to fight without Charging, because Ky has too many ways of covering you. Yes, it's easy to get level 2 if you actually hit him, that's assuming you won out in neutral and got to where you wanted to be. I never said that HOS doesn't have the tools to deal with Ky's game; if that were the case, the matchup would definitely not be as close to even as it is now (Ky would have an overwhelming advantage, in fact). As I've said multiple times, it all comes down to the players behind the sticks, because both players have to make some type of commitment in most actions and everything has a counter. I give mild advantage to HOS because he just comes out on the winning end more often when it comes to damage dealt, so that makes it easier to seal the deal once you get into the right position. Ky has to work a little harder, but Ky also has an easier time locking down HOS once he gets his offense started, so it balances out somewhat. Also, iBeK3n mentioned earlier that lvl1 BRP gave a free throw to the opponent even on hit. This is incorrect, as lvl1 BRP is +3 on standing hit and IIRC +4 on crouching hit (it's been a while, but I believe crouching hit does add 1 frame of hitstun). This makes 5K a perfectly viable follow up to a connected lvl1 BRP, and even if you don't want to chance it due to how close the frame advantage is, 6K and instant j.HS remain options to discourage throwing in that situation.

For me, it has always been dependent on individual playstyles and how they interact. Personally, I am always trying to feed off the response to my pressure options, so I tend to insert more critical points into my pressure where people will be tempted to do something. I had to do this because the local Ky I played was very good at just blocking anything straightforward that came at him. That's part of why I say the matchup really depends on who is playing it. I could do a more extensive writeup on various options and respond to what's been said, but I'm mostly just too lazy.

Brandino: Specifically, matchup is much easier at neutral if you are better at playing with low levels of Charge. It is hard to Charge at midscreen against a Ky who knows the matchup, because he's not going to give you room to breathe. Yes, getting to level 2 is easy if you're not having to deal with constant barrages of Stun Edges and well-spaced pokes that beat all of your pokes. Overall though, I'd say it really comes down to matchup knowledge. By no means is the matchup heavily in the favor of either character.

I would say that the better you are at fighting without Charge, the easier the matchup is. A good Ky player will not let you Charge, which means most of your opportunities will be offensive in nature, either by getting knockdowns and Charging or by good use of AC FRC after specials. A lot of the matchup will be dictated by how good the Ky player is at neutral, because you really do need to get in. A smart Ky who knows the matchup will not hang himself for you. Eventually, you will probably have to take some kind of risk or make a really good read. Once you're in, do everything in your power to stay there and don't let him escape back to neutral. I would say it's close to even, with slight advantage in HOS favor; technically we have the better tools, but the Ky player can easily counteract that mild advantage with better play/matchup knowledge.

Maybe it depends on the string, I have definitely done 3C-22B-41236D after CS from 236Ax3 at the end of a combo.

Probably need to go test this when I get home, but wouldn't 22B do more damage in most of these situations? I know for the last one you can do 3C -> 22B, then cancel the last hit to 41236D.

Minor correction, XX I-no was definitely not rubbish. Otherwise, carry on.

The whole boss-itis idea is silly, but just for completion's sake, GGX Dizzy was top 3 (though this was more due to FCD than the character being too good), and GGXX I-no was very good, but not top. As pointed out above, Slash HOS was absolutely terrible, though not as bad as Slash Robo-Ky.

Not to start a big debate, but in my experience this is less because of balance and more because SF is more popular, thus a greater density of knowledgeable players. If you reversed the roles and more people played, say, BB, you'd be feeling those bad matchups way more. SF just feels more rigid; "anime" games are good at making you feel like you can do something most of the time, even if you really can't.

Already been down this road, I explained to you that your intense negativity made no sense, given that you haven't even played the game yet and the VAST majority of people who actually have played it are possessed of views that oppose yours. And before you recycle your pathetic two "facts", let me address them: 1. The game only having 15 characters is really, well and truly, completely irrelevant to how good the game is. More characters does not always equate to a deeper, more fulfilling game. As long as the existent cast provides a variety of interesting and viable styles of play, the actual number of characters means jack. 2. As I mentioned to you before, just because Ishiwatari claims the game has been deliberately simplified does not mean that the game is less deep, or "dumbed down", as you keep saying. Actual depth of a game is displayed after long periods of play by skillful players, and is rarely set in stone right at release. Melee is a good example of this. Additionally, as I said above, aside from ONE PERSON (Mike Z), everyone who has actually played the game has said that it's still quite deep and fun. The fact that you hold a different opinion is not what makes people call you a troll. It is your stubborn hard headedness in INSISTING that the game is horrible before you even get to play it, in spite of everyone who has played it telling you otherwise. In short, your opinion is dumb, and people are tired of you repeatedly sharing it, without demonstrating any lick of common sense. Your "right" to your opinion doesn't make your opinion any less stupid.

Remember kids, if you have an opinion that is uninformed and you share it in a public space, you are inviting people to criticize said opinion. A right to an opinion does not equate to a right to immunity from critique.

Mass appeal and attracting the average gamer are not necessarily the same thing. Mass appeal is the fact that to this day, there are still people who know what Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat are. These are people who have probably never even seen an arcade before. Pulling a handful of people who are gonna sell the game back in a few weeks for the next new thing doesn't really count.

The whole idea of these types of fighters gaining any kind of mass appeal in the US seems pretty hopeless to me. When I tell people I play fighting games, I have to use mainstream titles to spark even a hint of recognition (Street Fighter, Tekken), and sometimes even that doesn't work. The title I hear about the most is Mortal Kombat, a series which I loathe. I had a kid ask me why I didn't play UFC if I liked fighting games. You think an esoteric game like GG, inspired by 80's anime and heavy metal, is going to be popular with any large group of people here? Nah bro.

Do we have any proof the game is confirmed day 1 digital? Would like to save a few bucks by skipping a physical copy, if possible.

Except that you're assuming the game will be bad, and that assumption is based on other people's opinions, and not even all of them. How do you know the game will be bad? You have no solid ground to base that opinion on. That's why people are freaking out on you. I don't think Mike Z is trolling, for example. He's just giving his opinion based on time actually playing the game. You don't even have that, so what are you so freaked out about? And why are you ignoring all the good press the game is getting from guys like ElvenShadow, who has been playing the game for months? If you can address these points seriously, I'm willing to see you as just some guy who's confused. Otherwise, troll city.

Your opinions have no basis in reality, you jump to conclusions based on the opinions of other people and on top of that, rather than taking opinions from both sides, you choose to only hear the negative side. From my side, it looks like confirmation bias, you are so convinced about the game being bad that you only acknowledge the points of view that validate that side. You are either trolling, or have a severe problem in your thought process. People have been polite enough to say you're trolling because no one wants to call you stupid outright. That would be just rude.

Well, if you choose to gloss over all the good press the game has gotten from people who have actually played it for more than a day or two, I guess it would be easy to come to the conclusion that GG is dead. Otherwise, I think you're overreacting and you just want to be disappointed. Very lame.

Yep, there's a fine line between "everyone's strong" and "everyone plays the same". Same idea with FRCs supposedly being so much deeper than YRCs; all that's really lost are optimized combos and some pressure strings. Is there really a huge amount of depth that gets lost in the process?

Hecatom: Funny, I feel the exact opposite. Maybe you have to watch certain players and certain characters. If anything, the fact that YRC is possible on almost all moves makes it even more exciting. So many more options available. There's no magical depth in being able to do FRCs on hit or block, honestly. SuperJ: The community wasn't as developed back then, people were just happy to have a new game. FRCs were a point of excitement, for sure, as it meant more options compared to GGX, where RCs were very limited.

I personally feel like FBs are difficult to balance properly. They're definitely interesting tools, but there's a good risk of making them too strong, plus they can occasionally make the cast feel more homogenized if they're designed to close up gaps in a character's design. Feels kinda lazy.

This sounds like something I've seen before...oh yeah, FRCs and Force Breaks!

Well the cool thing about IK combos is that with the slower Charge drain, you can do certain combos that will bring the lifebar down low enough to get the IK at higher than usual life totals. For example, with 100% Tension and max Charge you can do 5S-5HS -> lvl3 BRP, 5HS -> DI and it will kill Ky at 50% health. Doesn't sound like much, but thanks to Guts, it becomes harder to kill characters once you've already dealt high damage, so this presents one of the few practical uses for DI with HOS. Overall though, it's more of just a way to style on people, and the fact that I don't have to go for super-obvious setups to do it anymore makes me smile. =]

Anime trend is still strong in America, it seems.