TITANIUM BEAST!!!

Auto-JI has been around for a while, but it is subtle enough that you forget it's there sometimes. It can be useful for some of HOS's extended juggles in the corner, though.

Yeah, when using j.S, if you think they'll Burst, the main threat will be that you potentially can JC the j.S and block or throw a quick move like j.P that is safer. j.S by itself is NOT Burst-safe.

How so? Against most reversals, if you have 25% meter, you can block if they attempt to use an invincible move (for example, Slayer does BBU, you FRC and guard, then punish him). If you do it correctly, it's incredibly difficult to punish. Most players will avoid trying to punish you if you show them that you can punish them for even trying. Heat Knuckle has a 14 frame startup, so it's very difficult for him to punish you with that move on reaction; he'd have to anticipate you were going to do it.

On hit it's +1. Naturally, on block a throw is pretty much guaranteed if you are in throw range. Thus why you need to use it from further away and when you have 25% meter.

Ok, what? 2HS is neutral on block. On a standing hit it's +2 and on a crouching hit (the more likely scenario) it's +3. It's NOT punishable on hit unless you do something stupid (like trying to throw Potemkin). Level 1 BRP is +1 on hit, so yeah, not really punishable. There are circumstances where you can get thrown, but you are not in a state where the throw is unavoidable, you can do something about it and severely punish someone for trying to throw you when you're at frame advantage. Now for the PB scenario, something you have to understand is that there is THROW PROTECTION ON HIT AND BLOCK. This means that when you hit someone with something or force them to block something, there is a short period once they return to neutral where you can't throw them...but they can throw you. This is 5 frames for a blocked move and 6 for a hit. So for example, if you do 2HS and it hits someone crouching, you have to wait nine frames before you can throw them. Potemkin only needs a two frame window to PB you out of anything because as noted, he is invincible from frame 3 onward. As far as level 1 BRP, if you do it at a close range, you can be thrown out of most of your normals because even though you are at +1, your fastest move is still only 3 frames, whereas normal throws are 1 frame startup. This does NOT mean a throw is guaranteed for them, it just means you have to take countermeasures against it. Luckily for you, you play HOS. Not only does he have 6K (which leads to a grip of damage on CH with 25% Tension), but he has one of the best jumps in the game and one of the best jumping normals in the game (j.HS). You can punish someone SO hard for trying to throw you in this type of situation that it really shouldn't even concern you that much. Naturally, this applies to PB as well, since it's a 4 frame move. Concerning beating Pot Buster: The thing you need to understand about 5K is that while it's three frames to hit, this is only at the closest range (ie just before the knee extends). The move is active for 3 frames and the extended part of the knee is later in this window, so at longer ranges you're hitting more on the 5th frame (if it hit on the 3rd frame from THAT far away, the move would be way too good). This explains why sometimes you will have more luck using 2P since it's 4 frames and the hitbox extends to max range on that very first active frame. But yeah, in general, if you want to punish someone for trying to PB you, you can get a much bigger reward for going for a jump or 6K. Just learn the scenarios and learn what to do.

From midscreen you can hit 2HS -> 236S FRC, then hj IAD into late j.D (so the airdash momentum doesn't cut the move short) and from here you can start j.HS-D loops. Example: dash 2K-5S©-2HS -> 236S FRC, hj.IAD late j.D, land, j.HS-D, land, j.HS-D, land, hj.HS-D Even off of a prorated starter like a 2K, this does 284 damage to a normal-stamina character and only takes 25% to boot.

I'd say the tick throw part of 3P is irrelevant if the Axl player is spacing it properly. It's only +2 on block, so at farther ranges you can react to dash throw attempts pretty easily. It's scarier more for the huge number of options he has from it and its sheer safety.

Most uppers will not win against properly timed meaty jumpins on wakeup. With SV it probably depends on the level as it gets faster the higher your level. Level 1 is 12 frames startup, level 2 is 10 and level 3 is 8.

Level 3 is actually pretty realistic in AC with the combination of faster Charging and the ability to Charge Keep, you can do ridiculous lockdowns like string into level 2 Blockhead Buster, AC FRC and dash into another string that ends with a CK level 1 Blockhead, AC FRC and now you have level 3 and the option of an instant high/low using Bandit Revolver with sweep (or Fafnir if you have meter), or you can run up and continue to pressure. Main thing is we have to define what "average" damage is in AC. I think people mistake characters like Slayer and Jam to be the "average" when they really are the exception to the rule. Shit, Testament and Baiken are tops and yet their damage really doesn't compare to those two characters. So what's "average" damage for you? 50%? 60%? If you say 70% or higher I know that your standards are a little off. Like any other character, HOS's damage options in any situation will depend on his resources and some other factors like distance and whether or not he got a CH. In general though, I would say with level 2 and 25% meter, HOS can easily do 50% plus damage into a knockdown off of a clean opening. I would say that on both random hits and his B&B mixups, he does better damage than over half the cast. You also have to factor in guard gauge since he is a pressure character and a good HOS can make you block for a while before finally eating his mixup. I would say CC is not super-threatening but it is pretty crucial to his game. You can CC random normals and make them have frame advantage depending upon how your opponent is guarding you (for example, if they like to FD to push you out, you can CC your Slashes and get frame advantage where you wouldn't normally). CCed 2D at max range on CH gives a free combo for decent damage. 2D is also +3 on block if you CC it, which is pretty decent. 5HS is +5 on block when CCed and you can use it after some normals up close for a nasty frame trap. If 5HS CHs on a grounded opponent, they can kiss over half their life goodbye. Same if you catch them airborne as anti-air or in a tech trap.

This really depends on what's happening at what time. Is he using the HS air Stun Edge when you dash at him? If you are within your 5HS range, tap the button and CH him for all of his life. In fact, this works great against almost all of his air options save for spaced out max range j.HS from a backwards jump or airdash. If he IS using falling j.HS a lot, just IB it and regroup. j.HS only loses to his 2HS if you are jumping predictably and he hits the button in anticipation; on reaction you will eat his 2HS for free. The answer to this is to wait a split second in spots where you would normally jump and then 2S the fuck out of his 2HS when he throws it out willy-nilly. Another good option instead of 2S is to draw the whiff and the Fafnir him in recovery. 6P is much harder to deal with as he can do it on reaction to a lot of your jumpins. You can double jump late to bait it and then punish him, but this is risky. Again, your best bet is to stay on the ground. Also, never airdash at Ky unless he did something you can punish him for. Key example is un-FRCed Stun Edges, airdash over these for j.HS-D and a free knockdown. FD to block the shoryu. Smart Ky players won't go for this that often because it is riskier than their other options and the payoff is not as good. Really their last ditch option. At long range you are basically at Ky's mercy, there is not much you can do in terms of trickiness as he pretty much controls the ground. Your fancy movement won't help a lot in this case, just let him take the initiative and punish him for trying anything fancy or unsafe. Max range poking is not in Ky's best interest if you have meter since you can draw the whiff and punish him/get in for free. He is likely to try and close the distance slightly in order to prevent you from doing this, which gives you slightly better chances. Theoretically, your far Slash can compete with his since they are the same speed (10 frames), so if you are in range for it, you can give it a try. The disadvantage here is that sometimes his far Slash will evade yours due to the slight backwards lean of his hitbox just before he stabs you, and he also has two good pokes that will beat your far Slash cleanly (2S and 2D). Fafnir will beat those pokes, but Fafnir is always a calculated risk against Ky, especially since he likes to go airborne a lot. You can use 2S and 2D in the ground game a good bit since you are faster on the ground and can get into range on him. This requires excellent spacing and timing, though. In addition, you always get the occasional Ky player who will go for the dumb risk and Greed Sever over your ground pokes. This is punishable as all getout but you have to do goofy shit to beat it out like throwing out 5HS at midrange (which isn't necessarily a bad idea in some cases, but you risk getting hit and knocked down by doing it too much, even though risk/reward is definitely in your favor). Again, anticipate, IAD over and punish. Just be wary if he has meter, FRC is always possible. 6P clashes with his upper for free, you can then tap 5HS or Gun Blaze to hit him. 2D can duck under his upper similar to Sol. The thing is that if you time it wrong, there's a chance that you'll trade instead, since HOS takes longer to reach his crouch frames on 2D. But there's also a wacky chance that the 2D will actually CH Ky out of the upper instead of whiffing it, then you can CC and go for it. The ground game is in Ky's favor, definitely. In general, it is easier for Ky to get his game rolling on HOS than the other way around. Ky has no reliable methods to get out of HOS's offense, though. Most of his defensive options will result in getting baited and killed. Just get in on him if you can and you're good to go.

Well, good luck knocking her down if she plays the air game. Having Charge ready helps a lot.

Never ever do this if she has 25% meter, she will Force Break her dolphin and you will eat it. You can deal with some vertical dolphin shenanigans by using j.P. If she tries to do silly stuff like whiffed SVD into OHK grab, you can j.P it on reaction for a free short juggle. You have to be careful, though. Again, be wary of Force Breaks. One other annoying thing is that if you use Storm Viper on vertical dolphins, the Force Break version will usually beat you out (and sometimes if you do it too late, she can block anyway without having to use the FB). You can fix this by changing the timing, ie doing the uppercut later. If the May player isn't paying attention, they'll fall right into your SV. She can still FD though, so this will only catch them if they are sleeping. Unfortunately you are going to have to live with this. You can fight May on the ground somewhat, but May is perfectly capable of spending the majority of the fight in the air. She can jump out of a lot of your pressure pretty easily, so resign yourself to going for the occasional Storm Viper to stop her bullshit. Ryan-Bill informed me that it is possible to jump up and IB her j.HS and then throw her. This CAN work, but you have to be below her in order for it to be effective; if she is low enough to the ground, she will land and be able to defend or attack before you gain any real initiative. BTW, IBing poorly spaced/spammed air normals and punishing is pretty effective in general. Just getting May on the ground isn't enough, you have to get her into a lockdown and consistenly punish her for attempting to jump out of your pressure. Avoid typical frame traps you would use on other characters because her quick floaty jump will make it very easy for her to escape your usual fare. Again, lockdowns if possible and try to force a 50/50 on her while she is blocking. Her Dust can be fuzzy guarded by guarding high first, then guarding low a split second later. This way you will be able to guard both the normal attack and the feint. Ideally you want them to use the normal version since you can punish that; don't attack after blocking the feint since it is JCable. Command grab is 4 frames, which makes it as fast as your punches. The good news is the range on it is pretty small, so she doesn't get as many chances to go for it as she might like; running in from a distance gives you an opportunity to see her go for it and poke her first. Backdash and 1F jump work well to escape it. Dolphin crossups are easy to deal with as long as you can remember which way you're facing when you get up from knockdowns.

Really? I was able to loop at least two pretty easily. 6P-5S© -> TK Reflex Roar, land and TK another or you can dash 5K-5S© into another TK Reflex Roar or aircombo. You can even just land and do the ground Reflex Roar after the second TK if you have full meter. I was also able to get j.HS to combo into j.D during an air combo in the corner. EDIT: Just did this combo on Testament in the corner. j.D (launch), land, j.K-S-HS-D, land, hj.P-S-HS-D Did 198 dmg. If you have 25% meter: j.D (launch, TK Reflex Roar, land, dash 5S©, j.K-S-HS-D, land, hj.P-S-HS-D for 234 dmg.

Active for 7 frames if you do the math properly. Blocked Fafnir = opponent has to be defensive, which is good. Properly timed, a 5S is uninterruptable after it's blocked, and a 5HS at that range is highly likely to counterhit anything they would try to do, which means huge pain. Combine this with the throw invincibility and you actually have an ok wakeup option, especially if you aren't in a position for a meaty j.S or GF FRC. So yeah, Hatred Edge, stop saying the move is worthless.

Whoops, had an XX moment. Sorry.

You can press the buttons simultaneuosly and it will register the button with more "priority". Button priority is D,P,K,S,HS, so out of those three, P has the highest priority, then K. I would probably hit KSHS simultaneously to avoid any chance of an accidental Gun Flame.

We don't need two combo threads (like it or not, combo "theory" is part of combo discussion and doesn't warrant a separate thread), there's no way to merge the two threads with this thread on top since all posts are inserted in chronological order, I'm not going to pick and choose posts to cut and paste here and apparently everyone felt the other thread was "worthless" anyway. So yeah, this is the new combo thread.

Is there any particular reason this warranted its own thread? Cuz if not, I'm gonna merge it with the current thread we have for combos.

I like lvl2SV for the knockdown and oki you can get from it, relaunches not so much. It's good for combos midscreen where you couldn't launch them otherwise.

dash throw is what makes Kim Kim

You can't throw during a run as far as I can tell.

Well yes, but you have to keep in mind the type of scrubs that fighting games are aimed at these days. Keep in mind, the main arcade market consists of Japan/Southeast Asia, and while they have their share of "jump around random stuff" scrubs, they have a much larger share of "gameplay system" scrubs than most of the other markets. So the way the game plays is more important to them than characters. In addition to this, the KOF brandname is huge in these areas and so there are tons of KOF characters, many of which were left out of NGBC, that are HUGELY popular. Basically, there are hella more KOF scrubs then there are just random SNK scrubs.

Character wise you may be correct, but the KOF games are the flagship for SNK, so that playstyle is what would be popular. NGBC plays more like a Capcom game.

People go for XI because it's more popular, period. NGBC never got the hype or distribution that XI got.

XI is not better than NGBC. It's a matter of what type of game you like. Honestly, both games have massive problems in terms of character balance. If you like tons of silly combos and heavy rushdown play, you'd obviously prefer XI. If you're more of an oldschool gamer and prefer the slower paced games like SF which focus heavily around spacing and footsie, you'll prefer NGBC.