TITANIUM BEAST!!!

Just read the Sol stuff, pretty good! Only a couple of things and I'll be out of your way. In the "Counters" section, I would suggest no 6P @ close-range against Gun Flame if the Sol player has meter. FRC Gun Flame -> block is the easiest thing in the world and doing 6P in that situation means May eats CH GF launch for big damage. Yeah, if you have an impatient Sol he might run into your CH 6P for a trade but it's more likely he'll just block immediately after GF FRC and THEN rush once he sees you blocked the move. Also, just a minor numerical issue in the section about baiting VV: while it is true that VV only has 9 frames of total invulnerability on startup (this is the S version, HS version is 6 frames), it remains strike invulnerable until frame 13 for the S version and frame 11 for the HS version. Furthermore, the S version hits on frame 7, not frame 9, and the HS version hits on frame 5. You should still be able to bait it in the same manner, just thought I'd give you the correct numbers. You've got the matchup broken down pretty well, good stuff Kyle!

The video is grainy so it's hard to tell when he gets the double clean hits. I just assumed he got double every time cuz I couldn't read it.

Japanese version does make a difference since you get to store two clean hits instead of just one. Using the setup in the vid I've managed to get something in the 360s on US version.

With another SV that gets baited again and etc goes on forever. Tension isn't infinite. Shit like that works because it's not expected, not out of any actual solidity behind the tactic. Oh well, just cuz you don't see it doesn't mean it can't happen. Look at the actual properties of the move, all you have to do is get the hitboxes to line up correctly after the invincibility of SV ends and you can stuff it.

No, not really. An uppercut that doesn't stay invincible up through the active frames is crappy no matter how you wanna look at it. Especially one that has a super-slow startup and a crappy hitbox that makes it super-baitable.

Actually he does it far more than kaqn or any other HOS player I've seen. Several situations where a normal player would block, he will uppercut. It's an interesting tactic, seeing as Storm Viper is a pretty crappy uppercut.

reaVer: KZO is fucked-up, period. You can sit there and try to justify "I Storm Viper if I see you twitch" style of playing HOS, it's still crazy.

If HOS does have an advantage in this matchup, it's quite minor. Any match with KZO in it doesn't count cuz that dude has a fucked-up style of play.

Yeah, if that's the case then there's a real problem with these "rankings". Play style has to be taken into account. You can't play every character the same way.

I don't think it's fair to say that Sol's problem is that he is "average". He's got some pretty good damage, he doesn't have to spend Tension on most of his stronger combos which gives him more meter to play around with in the ground game and he has some of the best anti-air options in the game. I think the real problem has to do with the risk involved. Sol is not a very safe character. Most of his options involve him putting himself in danger of being countered pretty hard and the few safe options that he has don't give much reward. So playing him properly requires you to put yourself in danger by committing to options that have significant risks attached. If you wanted to use P.C as an example, he's actually a really good player, contrary to what Tiamat stated earlier. The problem is that he tries to play a nearly 100% safe Sol. A Sol played in this manner is just not that threatening, he cannot deal damage properly. It seems really stupid when you see it happen, but occasionally you're gonna have to go for that "random" full-screen Grand Viper or you'll have to do some dumb command grab setup that looks like it should never connect. You'll have to go for that psychic DP when someone swings on you in a frame trap. This is simply the nature of the character, you have to take risks in order to intimidate your opponent into a more passive role so that you can run your game on them, then continue to take risks on offense in order to punish them for simply trying to sit still and defend against your pressure. I think this character design is the core reason why even really good players can only take Sol so far. I mean, yes, theoretically the Sol players could be doing more with certain moves/combos to max out their damage, but even then there is risk involved. Again, Tiamat mentioned Grand Viper for maxing out combo damage. It's possible to always get huge Tensionless damage with this move (example, CH 2D -> unmashed GV clean hits on a lot of people), but it's still risky since most of these more advanced combos are either extremely character-specific or they are not hitconfirmable and thus still require you to commit (see CH 2D -> GV above). I don't think he's just some average, all-around character. He does have some severe deficiences fighting in certain situations (gets zoned really badly, hogs Tension in order to keep the pressure on, offense is extremely linear, etc). It's definitely not the player's fault because those players have been playing Sol and just in general have played GG for a very long time. This is just how I look at the character, though. I could very well be wrong. But my greatest success with Sol always comes when I try to play in this risky-yet-effective manner of trying to read my opponent in order to push them into these options. It's also how I get my worst losses, but I just see that as the character and his deficiency.

Again I say; hooray for unreversable okizeme.

So Volume 2 apparently releases on January 1st. Man, I was looking forward to having it all today. =(

Ai has one thing going for her (shooter super loop in the corner), outside of that she is terrible like almost everyone else in this game.

Fanboyz~ I like Rock for the fact that he has badass combos off of Shinkuu Nage and especially in the corner using D-Assaults. But everything else about the character is terrible. Yuki just sucks.

Note you can only do it as Gold Order-Sol, not regular.

unsmart: Fafnir is throw invincible, not strike invincible. I didn't realize that Gun Flame was toned down from Slash. That seems pretty silly.

The implication was that you could not do it on crouching characters from normals like you used to be able to. GV is probably a different story in how it stuns.

That was 2HS -> GV RC, GF FRC, etc.

Hi, I merged this with the general discussion thread. I know the Sol forum is a mess right now but please try to look around and read some of the other threads instead of posting a whole new thread just to ask questions.

Could you possibly do all of Sol's and Order-Sol's stuff as well? I'm curious as to what they'd say about HOS especially.

I wouldn't say most Sols don't time it perfectly, especially considering that I'm the only good Sol player you ever fight and I don't even main with him anymore. You should do everything with the thought that the player you're facing knows what he is doing. That way you don't build up bad habits that get you killed in tournaments. 2HS is a bad idea unless the Sol player is really far out, in which case he probably isn't going to grab you unless you've proven that you're just gonna sit there and block.

The A lightsaber combo doesn't do enough damage to justify the 2 levels of meter, though. Definitely worth learning the timing for C lightsaber on first hit of QCB+A.

Yeah, it's not easy though. You can SC the second hit of QCB+A to the A version of lightsaber, but it does significantly less damage than SCing first hit to the C version. The first hit of QCB+A is the only one that gives enough stun to combo the C version, but it must be SCed immediately in order to combo, which is why it's kind of difficult at first.

Standing D or cr.B-cr.A into QCB+A, SC on first hit to C lightsaber. This is his BnB and you are far more likely to hit this than hitting level 2 off of a normal QCB+C or even command grab. Command grab is still hella good though, but hitconfirm off of either of the above combos is more likely and does more damage.

Kaede doesn't build meter, he burns it like a mafia boss who burns fifties to light his cigars.