TITANIUM BEAST!!!

HOS oki is mostly based around using tools like Gun Blaze, 6K and 2HS to punish your opponent for trying to throw/hit/reverse you on wakeup and basically making them want to always block, at which point you run up and start pressure strings for free or do shenanigans to break their guard. For example, you do Gun Blaze when you have the opportunity to make the opponent focus on guarding the crossup instead of trying to throw or get out of your oki. Once they start guarding all the time, you do the sneaky run up 2K(blocked) into Gun Blaze and cross them up anyway. If you're getting thrown out of these kinds of pokes, it means you aren't working your other options well enough to make the opponent sit still. reaVer, your 6K info is a bit misleading. First of all, the shortest CC is 13 frames, not 11. However, 6K's base recovery is 16 frames (10 frames active, 7 frames recovery, remove 1 from the active and add the two numbers together and you get 16). 6K is a level 3 move, so it normally inflicts 13 frames of guardstun on a normal guarding opponent. So take 13 and subtract a recovery of 16 and you'll see that 6K is normally -3 on block. If you CC, the recovery goes from 16 to 13, so when you take the 13 frames of guard stun and subtract the new 13 frames of recovery, it becomes 0. So CCing 6K does not increase your recovery normally, it reduces your recovery and still leaves you in a position to do something. If you're doing 6K meaty on wakeup, the situation changes a bit since you get to skip some of the active frames that add to the recovery of the move, but doing 6K meaty on wakeup eliminates the mixup aspect of the move because you telegraph what you are going to do and leave yourself open to invincible reversals like VV or Starship. What you want to do is run up in your opponent's face and do 6K at the last possible moment. This makes it more ambiguous as to what you are actually trying to do and will cause your opponent to guess more and make more mistakes. They may think you are trying to start a regular blockstring and attempt to throw you only to get 6K CH in the face. If you do 6K too early, there's no reason for the opponent to guess at what you are doing and they can freely reverse you if they have the ability to do so or simply block. Another option when using 6K on wakeup is to do a slightly delayed cancel into BHB (any version is fine since they all give advantage if you AC FRC). This is nice because you can use visual confirmation to see if 6K connected or not and act accordingly to maximize your offense in any situation. If it was blocked, do the BHB and start pressure again. If it normal hits, you can still combo into the BHB and then do combos from there (you can link a Fafnir from any version of BHB) or you can combo to 2D and do oki (or even CC 2D and do a short aircombo). If it CHs, you can just straight Fafnir them after you recover. You can still CH people with 2HS if they try to throw you out of it on wakeup, you simply have to be a little more clever about your setup. Space yourself just outside of the opponent's throw range and do 2HS and they will get CH if they try to throw you or poke you out of the move. Key thing to remember about 2HS is that if the opponent IBs, you are at slight disadvantage of -4, so be careful when you use it. I tend not to use this move on wakeup as much anymore because it isn't very hard to block in that situation once you get used to it; better to do it at unexpected points in strings where the chance of blocking it is much lower. Honestly, HOS's oki hasn't changed a whole lot from Slash, the options simply pay off in different ways.

Off of CH level 1 Gun Blaze, you can do the second Gun Blaze, then do a dash j.HS-D, dj.HS-D into the corner into a relaunch combo for over half pretty easily. Off of CH 6K with level 3, you can do 1 Fafnir instead of 3, then run up 2S-5HS into level 3 BRP, end it with 5S©-5HS into hj.S-HS-D and it does 250 dmg. The 3 Fafnir combo does 299, the extra 49 damage isn't worth the 50% extra Tension you spend on the two FBs.

Quoted him where? I checked in the video threads and I saw nothing mentioned of the sort. And just because the color is the same doesn't mean anything.

That's not isa. The name reads "Danzai Red".

Ky's 5P HAS no invincibility, genius, you're thinking of his 6P. And the flame covered regions certainly are NOT invincible because that's what you're fucking hitting with Ky's 5P.

Hit. Boxes. Ok? How the FUCK can he hit Anji out of a super and yet Ky can fucking hit him out of Rock It CLEANLY with a 5P? Every move that has invincibility of ANY kind has the invincibility listed in the frame data, including what part of the body and what the duration is. There is NOTHING mentioned about level 1 Rock It or ANY version of Rock It having any invincibility of any kind. Just because you managed to line up a couple of hitboxes so that one move beats a move that you think it shouldn't DOES NOT MEAN THE MOVE HAS INVINCIBILITY.

Ok, stop this. If Rock It had invincibility of any sort, there would be no reason for it to get beat by random pokes at any level. The move has no invincibility, stop debating this.

5HS CH CC into another 5HS for teh lol.

If level 1 Rock It had actual invincibility, it would have been listed somewhere in data a long time ago. THE MOVE IS NOT INVINCIBLE. What you may be experiencing is a matter of hitboxes lining up in certain ways such that Rock It is beating certain moves, but this has nothing to do with actual invincibility. Repeat, LEVEL 1 ROCK IT HAS NO INVINCIBILITY. DO NOT POST THIS ANYWHERE AGAIN. The advantage is +3 on normal block; at certain ranges you cannot do anything with this. Due to the way Rock It works (ie it doesn't travel a set distance, he just stops where it gets blocked), there will be times where you will do it and you don't really have any viable offensive options after they block it. This gets even worse if they IB since then you are at 0 and can't do anything. At range it's really only good for a CH fish and closing distance a little, the frame advantage on block doesn't amount to anything. Since we are talking about specific ranged applications, you cannot state frame advantage as a general advantage. Only if you don't space S(f) correctly. Do it right and it's extremely hard to punish a whiffed one because of how far away you are. The main advantage S(f) has over Rock It is speed and the space that it covers. People can just jump away from Rock It in many situations, whereas a no-FD jump loses to S(f). S(f) also has higher potential damage behind it, level 1 Rock It is just a knockdown at best unless you have them cornered and are close to begin with.

NO. No no no no. Wrong. Frame advantage, yes. See what I said above on that. At a range, the frame advantage doesn't mean anything because once they block it, you are out of range where you could do anything with it aside from *gasp* S(f)! Good recovery on whiff = no, it just seems like that because he's moving, sort of like a whiffed Mappa from Slayer. You can also do 5HS after FB and combo into level 3 BRP for a juggle; they get launched so high from that, you can AC the BRP and still juggle with a 5K as they bounce off of the wall. On heavier characters or longer distances where you may have to run up a bit, 2S-5HS -> BRP will also work, though that has a stricter timing to get both hits of the BRP to juggle. I've gotten it to work pretty easily on Ky with the correct distance.

Um, S(f) is faster than level 1 Rock It, still chains to 6HS on CH for a chunk and you can still RC there for a simple big-damage combo. It also has a better hitbox than level 1 Rock It (covers jumps better), the only advantage behind using Rock It is the fact that it travels forward and is advantage on block, but you can't even really take advantage of that unless you are already close when you do the move, an application that isn't as good as it was in Slash due to the reduced speed of the move (not to mention that we're talking about the ranged application). You could probably combo level 3 Rock It if you had some dashing momentum and the other guy was crouching. The 2S link after 5HS CC is pretty tricky. Easiest link would probably be 5K on crouchers, plus 5K-5HS is a combo on crouching characters, so you get something like 5HS CC, 5K-5HS -> Rock It or Bandit Revolver. On a standing opponent you could probably get 5HS CC into 5K-2D for an easy knockdown. After level 3 BRP you should be able to hit a dashing j.HS if your distance is correct, that would lead to a nice loop (j.HS-D, dj.HS-D, land 5S into whatever).

I like the new S(f) as far as controlling space. Just not good for combos anymore. People are just gonna have to learn to live without the old BHB. The new one is still useful in close-range fights for applying pressure and it actually has stronger combo applications now. Anyone else experimenting with 5HS CC links? You can get a lot on crouching opponents.

You have to have max level 3, buffer a JC into the last hit of the Rock It and immediately do Storm Viper, you should get a level 3. On counter hit, 5HS CC is godly. You get ridiculous followups on both ground and airborne opponents. You can also do silly ground-based links with it even on normal hit. An example would be after hitting CH 2S-6HS RC, dash up with 5HS CC, then 5S-5HS -> level 1 Rock It or something similar. Works more easily on crouching characters, but as long as you have dashing momentum, it will work on most standing characters as well. The above combo does over 200 pts of damage on Ky.

For the throw combo, if you do a dashing j.K, the momentum allows you to hit a Storm Viper instead of a BRP at the end of the combo, which does a little more damage. Seriously, nobody should have any trouble doing large damage with HOS in AC.

BRP does more damage, RI is more reliable.

Hey guys, use this new thread to discuss how Order-Sol fights the rest of the cast in Accent Core. If people don't mind transferring info posted from the old thread that regarded Accent Core, I can delete those posts and keep everything separated. Some minor discussion to start off: Versus Testament is still a bitch of a fight. The good news is that the increased damage you deal makes it easier to play in a more conservative manner, which will make this matchup less of a headache. The loss of old BHB means that getting in from range is harder, use 5S(f) to poke and attempt to close the distance. It also works well against webs, as does j.P. The Ky matchup feels a LOT easier now. The improved sweep makes it much easier to get around Stun Edges and also beats 6P easily. 5HS CC works wonders against any air game and it kills Greed Sever. Fafnir through Stun Dippers for big damage. Most matchups are not as painful now due to HOS not only doing more damage but having pokes that cover certain zones better than he was able to in Slash.

Combo from level 3 BRP is just as easy and does more damage. Total waste of meter, the damage doesn't compare. Level 3 Tyrant Rave doesn't wall bounce, you're thinking about the level 2 version. Level 3 TR does good damage, but the scaling results in doing less damage than you would using a no-Tension combo. Level 3 BRP from 5HS is actually really cool. The wall bounce gives you a lot of interesting followups that are strong.

I can understand being upset over the BHB change as it removed a really useful tool from HOS's arsenal, but I think he'd just be too good with the Slash version and the AC charge system. It'd be too easy to lock people down and build their guard gauge (with his damage already being high in AC, this would be overkill), way too easy to get inside as well. Just learn how to use the new one, it's still good at close-range. Like I've said before, HOS is played a little differently now. Some players will not be happy with that. Totally understandable. Just don't use that as an excuse to go off on weird tangents and make wild assumptions like "HOS is bottom tier because of his design".

Wrong. 2S never had forced proration. Try to come up with a better explanation, this is just blowing hot wind and shows you don't know what you are trying to say. I didn't say to use S(f) strictly for counter hit, it functions as a ranged poke and just happens to give you a decent reward on a CH. It's 10 frames, same speed as his Force Break, it just feels slow. You're not always going to be in range for 2S, this move functions pretty well as long as it's done at or near its max range.

Ok, I have to wonder how damage of 170+ on random-ass hits is considered "not enough". You want him to do Slayer-level no-meter damage but still be almost as fast as Jam? You might wanna clarify what goes as high damage for you. Second of all, 5K has a measly 90% proration on it which doesn't prevent HOS from doing damn near half-life combos or more with some lazy shit like 5K-5S-5HS into a level 2 or level 3 Rock It combo. Also, 2S has NO PRORATION whatsoever, so you just pulled that one out of your ass. If you're gonna complain about something, try to do your research. Let's examine this whole proration thing: 5P: 80% 5K: 90% 6P: 90% DAA: 50% 2P: 80% 2K: 70% 2HS: 90% 2D: 90% forced j.S: 90% forced j.D: 90% forced Throw (ground and air): 50% forced That's just his normals. Seems like a lot, right? Well, that's pretty typical. Fast moves like punches and kicks always have proration attached to them, especially crouching kicks. Overheads also usually have proration attached, as well as moves that give juggle/bounce states for "free" (ie they don't use meter). Look at the data for most of the other characters and you will find similar circumstances. So all this grandstanding about "high proration" is nothing special for HOS, everyone has to deal with it. When you have the fastest normal in the game, 90% proration is nothing to cry over. With the combination of faster charging and the Charge Keep system, it is actually pretty easy to keep your level high. And since when do people bitch about having to use 25% Tension? Never mind the fact that Tension grows on trees in AC. You mean a lot more broken. HOS can have level 2 ALL THE TIME in AC if he wants. Constant level 2 BHB would mean that he could get into his ideal range whenever he wanted to, and with the increase his damage dealing ability has received, this wouldn't really be reasonable. Shit is give and take, you can't have everything. As far as the S(f), it's not godly by any means, but it has huge fucking range. Timed correctly, you can CH a LOT of stuff from zoning characters and you can still combo to 6HS from it. On block you can just CC it to get back to neutral or JC it or cancel it to a special, almost anything you want. The slow speed means that you have to space it correctly and time your poke, but it's actually pretty useful. You just contradicted yourself within your first sentence! How is it that HOS's character design doesn't make him bottom by default but there is "no way around it"? Wouldn't that imply that the design is bunk since it can't be fixed? HOS's newness has little or nothing to do with his position in the tiers at this point, IMO. And I'm pretty sure the matchup charts would take "real" HOS players into account, just as I would expect them to take real players into account in general. Bottom line is that HOS plays differently now. I can understand if players are disappointed, but hey, nothing preventing you from playing a different character.

reaVer: There is nothing that says HOS's character design is going to make him bottom by default. He is a very strong character with a lot going for him and his charge system does not slow him down much at all. If it weren't for his charge system, he wouldn't even have charge cancel, which gives him hella options. And I seriously don't know what game you're playing when you say he still has "high proration" and that his average combo damage has only gone up by about 10-20 points. It's gone up by a lot more than that, even basic shit that did weak damage in Slash does much more in AC.

When you say "did so much damage without meter" exactly what are you citing? I seem to remember him not doing much damage at all and usually needing meter anyway. The only good Tensionless damage I remember HOS having originated from successful fuzzy-guard mixups, specifically the high option that could lead to a long juggle in the corner. Other than that and Gun Blaze combos, HOS did pretty shitty damage unless he had meter AND a counterhit or level charged. HOS is dropping in Japan because there are other characters in AC that do more damage than him and don't necessarily need meter to do it, plus he still has a weakness to zoners. Due to the weakening of BHB, he cannot deal with zoners the same way; he mus wait them out. On the other hand, due to his huge damage output from certain moves like CH anti-air 5HS CC and Fafnir, he can actually play this way and be far more intimidating than he was in Slash. You have some points, but that doesn't change the fact that he is way better in AC than he was in Slash. Right now the lowest I've seen him in AC is A tier, whereas he was C or worse in Slash.

It depends, if you want to try and take them across the screen into the corner for a re-juggle then you have to time it late and it becomes iffy. Otherwise it's relatively easy and does a little more damage than the BnB combo, downside is that you cannot bait Burst as effectively with it as you could the BnB.

The old Slash combo usually does not work since the float on Gun Blaze is lower. The upside is that all Gun Blaze combos do more damage now.

Dash j.HS after level 1 Gun Blaze is inconsistent, timing is extremely tight but the reward is potentially huge. The closer your back is to the corner when you do the Gun Blaze, the easier and more rewarding this option is. Otherwise, I'd just stick to the bread and butter. The most super-awesome Fafnir combo is Fafnir into dash 2S-5HS -> hj.IAD P-(K or S or HS) -> level 1 Storm Viper. The reason this is so awesome is because it works from much further out than most other Fafnir combos and it works on normal hit. Any Fafnir combo is good, damage is always huge.