DaiAndOh

Discuss the matchup here!

There's a Leo board now. Get out of your system there

Yeah I figured they would get to work with the console version. Console versions are more prominent in Japan than back in the day :P.

So the JP Wiki has a mostly complete combo section. As of now, my plan is to mostly transcribe it into our notation and copy it in. Thoughts? http://seesaawiki.jp/w/ggxx_matome/d/Xrd%a1%a1%a5%f4%a5%a7%a5%ce%a5%e0%a1%a1%a5%b3%a5%f3%a5%dc%a5%ec%a5%b7%a5%d4

6HS does indeed have a blind spot at point blank...

Yeah, you'd need the 6P to hit, the ball to hit, then the 6HS in that order.

You probably know A3 is playing Sin and enjoying him. Midrange character with a transport, big damage, those are some pretty Johnny style qualities I gotta say. But hey, mess around, you never know what you'll find. Hope to see you soon! Other players got their colors too (Ogawa color finally!)

So this is me mostly going off past experience since I haven't fought much of either (or really much of any character other than Zato and Sin and some Pot). In matchups like these when characters are either really fast (Millia) or have a powerful neutral tool (Horiztonal Chemical Love) you're going to have to really be careful on when you summon, even more than usual. Full screen should be safe on I-No to get 1 out, maybe 2, and if she doesn't approach with her note right away, you can absorb it via QV charge. Aggressive Millia's you shouldn't bother much with raw summon. They will chase you down too fast. You can of course, summon off knockdowns and connected pokes as well as "random summons" and QVs in your pressure. Most of all though, you have YRC summon! This is getting used more and more in Venom matches and is a great way to ensure you not only get balls out, but can use them effectively!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3brC2hUle4 Fino (Venom) vs Katou (I-No) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3brC2hUle4#t=203 Fino (Venom) vs Shaka (Sol) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3brC2hUle4#t=352 Fino (Venom) vs Shiro (Axl) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3brC2hUle4#t=490 Fino (Venom) vs Yaxl (Axl) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5V4_jbWrEw (Venom) vs Rokka (I-No) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5V4_jbWrEw#t=208 (Venom) vs Ain (Ky) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5V4_jbWrEw#t=408 Fino (Venom) vs Taka (Slayer) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVuUL5yQmcg#t=474 HEVEN (Venom) vs Jonio (Sol) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVuUL5yQmcg#t=670 HEVEN (Venom) vs K (Sol) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVuUL5yQmcg#t=880 HEVEN (Venom) vs Batako (Ramlethal) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7_MR-yrHRg Sanma (Venom) vs Karinchu (Ramlethal) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV34Smy3-Tc#t=529 Fino (Venom) vs Yaxl (Axl)

I usually get 5Px2 when I tried to double tap like that, but I generally don't have trouble with that link...it's like the one thing I don't -_-. Yeah I was able to get the Carcass part down for the most part thanks to my AC Venom experience, but the IAD after feels harder than his other ones...hell I tried doing it in +R and it was way easier...

This explains a lot. I was wondering why I would get 2K, f.S or 2K c.S(1) on standers after K ball oki. If you don't mind posting it in general discussion, and leaving a referral link in your original post, that would be great! I'd also like to use a lot of it on the wiki, unless someone else wants to to start on the Oki section first (ah it'll probably be me anyway :P). Please check frame data for those kind of questions! It's all available on the wiki! I don't have enough Sol experience to give a big comment, so he's plus, but what you retaliate with, should you choose to, depends on his spacing.

Question SnowMonkeyFunky (SMF?...yeah anyway) when you say double tap, you mean double tap the QV input? Interesting idea. The midscreen throw bnb is actually going to kill my wrist before I can do it, anyone have any luck there?

Dash j.K. Dash j.S works too and j.S covers a greater area for hitting balls, requires slightly different timing for opponent's wakeup though. In a twitch archive hopefully on youtube soon HEVEN opts for all j.S for K ball oki. While I'm not going to mod this nor stop anyone from answering, I'm not going to list anything. We JUST got the console version, let's play and figure things out we have now and get better!

Yes, I'm a bit stuck in some ways and prefer to abbreviate it as HS (heavy slash, hard slash, and in Japan, high slash actually) instead of H. Sorry for the confusion (and thanks for the compliment!)

2HS still seems worthy of some burn, but c.S seems pretty bad now for AA purposes. While that will take care of his slide, beak driver (the thrust) will mess you up. That move alone (it also negates projectiles) is huge for Sin in that matchup. One matchup threads can get made, I'll post some of my theories on the matchup based on my experiences playing against him at NEC.

Naturally of course, the combos above work in other situations as well. On a slightly non-combo related note, I'm curious about spacing in regards to 2K, c.S off of K ball oki, sometimes I only got one hit of c.S after trying it...hmmm.

I apologize, but you're going to need to be more specific than that. But I can confirm it will be very hard to master him. While yes you can, in the end, pushing them towards the corner is VERY important for this character who thrives on his pressure, lockdown,and chip damage capability, all of which are significantly increased when an opponent is in the corner.

As of now, I don't think too necessary since you have the c.S(3) IAD's on standers and QV IAD on crouchers. Generally it's used in corner combos (and usually by longtime Venom players since it was definitely necessary in #R). Not sure on spacing dependent of QV. And yeah, I also noticed that players were doing 866 for the IADs, rather than jumping forward.

Honestly, I don't think it's necessary. I feel like critique leads to discussion and we can use that in the discussion thread. Something I think I will make will be a "formation" tactics thread to list and discuss zoning and okizeme/pressure combinations by formation and have a nice list on top.

My general impressions: It feels like his pokes have shorter but I think that's mostly 16:9 like how it affects Axl. However, 2D's range feels more significantly shorter. Sometimes, 2K>2D wouldn't connect 0_o. I think it is more consistent at getting both hits though. j.D ball hitting angle is as great as it looked! IAD combos may or may not be 1 frame windows, but they are definitely hard! Or for me at least. New formation stuff confuses me a bit...I suppose it'll just take time to learn. Carcass Raids may have had charge times reduced by about 3-5 frames? Or maybe I just got better at it? I'll be at NEC for the whole weekend, so take care everyone!

I have definitely seen it used like that! Just remember Venom has lots of options to use for pressure and to spend meter with so it may not be necessary, or you can use the meter to YRC something like Carcass Raid instead. RCing Double Head Morbid to continue pressure is another example, this adds 4 hits to either raise guard gauge or drain some meter. Not sure if there's a trend I missed where they outright stopped though.

I haven't seen any in several months. When it does get used, the opponent is at low health and a stinger aim gets shot, which controls a decent amount of overall screen space. Dark Angel no longer raises guardbar. It's corner carry pushback may be nerfed, but I'm not sure. For both these moves, which don't guarantee hellfire damage in that state as well, you could get 2 YRCs, which is overall more powerful for Venom.

I think it is, but it is also a bit iffy because of how extreme the Xrd lifebars get without the actual numbers. Venom's damage is still generally average at best in this version overall though, although that's not too bad in the grand scheme. Damage will come from standing confirms and corner combos primarily, combos are more limited on midscreen crouchers.

j.S is the necessary move. Save startup as P though....1 frame seems off based on how much players are hitting it in Japan but we'll see I suppose.

You got questions, we got answers. If I see specific questions often either in here or around the internet I'll first post them. Feel free to ask anything Venom, but keep it gameplay related please! Q: Who are the best Venom players/who should I watch videos of? A: Fino, Isamu, and Sanma are the best and highest ranked players. HEVEN is a strong, longtime player. AO1/Reiichi and 310 are decent too.