DaiAndOh

Ok guys found system changes and Venom changes (the latter thanks to SOWL and Stunedge on twitter) PLEASE NOTE THESE ARE LOCATION TEST CHANGES AND ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE IN THE FINAL BUILD Updated to Test 3 Venom changes: Mostly the same from 2. Ball Set (214P/K/S/HS) - By holding down a different attack button during the ball setup, you generate a corresponding ball. Replaces cancelling sets into each other. Can now do it either way. Ball Set (214P/K/S/HS) - the P formation's P ball is now set slightly lower Top spin, Back spin - when the set ball is hit with Stinger Aim or Carcass Raid, the ball's level is now increased (ie, turns black and does more hits). See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmqupvZ52KE QV (41236P/K/S/HS) - the blow back on hit is decreased; the attack level is increased with the charge. PQV: Hitbox is now the same as other versions. Dark Angel (2363214S) - Deals 6 more hits (28->34) Just does better block damage Is now back to 34 hits. Bishop Runout (2363214HS) - now can be hit sooner; the duration is reduced. Venom can gain meter (slowly) during it. Allows for some interesting combos/loops. See: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153746613526393 for some changes. c.S (3rd hit): Hitbox increased upwards. Extra Changes noted at the test: 6P, lasts 3F->4F 6HS, changed ball’s path when hit HS Mad Struggle, last hit dmg 15->25 System Changes: the input buffer for button presses, forward dash etc. has been increased. Some commands for specials and supers are now easier to input. If you Blitz Shield a projectile and the opponent is nearby, they get repelled. Now doesn't grant meter for a successful projectile Blitz. The start-up of purple Roman Cancel is reduced. When the opponent uses Roman Cancel during a blue Psyche Burst's start-up, a red Roman Cancel is now performed. Changed the behavior of neutral ukemi at low altitude. My thoughts in order: Set: With the capability to do it either way, one can stick to their comfort zone. P Set: This is probably to hit it with 2S. This would be pretty cool. I still hope you can hit it with 5P though. Spin: Pretty cool. Gives you big reward for using the mechanic. QV: Seems there may be some nice new combos as well as helping to make Venom's current combos more universal. The attack level going up on charge is very cool and may make for some cool oki situations with QV, where you could be up to +10 or more and the ball gets summoned! PQV getting the same hitbox...not sure if it could replace SQV in combos, but it makes it a better ender in some situations! Dark Angel: Is now Dark Angel again. I missed you. Bishop: Now that you can gain some meter, that does eliminate some of my gripes for the move. The new combos may prove worthwhile as well. But with Dark Angel buffs and YRC being YRC, Venom will have lots of strong meter options. c.S: Mixed feelings depending how it turns out. Hopefully c.S(3) on the characters it works on crouching still works. But to get something like the AC/+R version in terms of anti-air would be great! 6P: Doesn't hurt 6HS BH: Might be ok. Never used it before really. Maybe like AC? HS Mad Struggle: OP PLS NERF (whatever) System thoughts: Buffer: May help with execution. Commands: *shrug* Blitz: Turns out it's only point blank. Outside of HS safejump oki, probably not affecting Venom too much. However, word I got from Fino is that K Ball oki can be blitz'd. PRC: Depending on how much, might be useful I suppose all around YRC Burst OS: Venom couldn't use it too much (only really on his crouching combos). Ukemi: *shrug*

Information If you'd like to contribute, please feel free to do so! Just post the combos you created, but please write them properly. If you are unsure on how to write combos properly, then read the wiki page here. Make sure to read the Notation Used section in this post so that you understand the specific notations used for CHARACTER. Also refrain from using move names and abbreviations. Please refrain from going off topic in this thread. This thread is for posting of combos only. Only the most optimal combos will be listed in this thread. There will be some combo theory among the combos, I will try to provide examples alongside it. Collapsed: Notations Used: [table] >Gatling/cancel the previous move into the following move. ,Link the previous move into the following move. |>After landing. jJump sjSuper Jump adAir Dash iadInstant Air Dash jcJump Cancel sjcSuper Jump Cancel jiJump Install CHCounter Hit MCMortal Counter RCRed Roman Cancel YRCYellow Roman Cancel PRCPurple Roman Cancel [ ]Hold Input (N)Attack must deal N amount of hits. [???] xNRepeat ??? N amount of times. BHBall hit. Refers to hitting a ball mid combo. The move may still hit an opponent. [/table] Collapsed: Guide Specific Notations Used: Notations in red are for prefixes only. Notations in blue are for suffixes only. [table] [sS]Side Swap combo [CO]Crouching Opponent [AA]Anti-air or Air-to-Air [N/N%]Damage/Tension Gain %[/table] General Theory[collapse]Generally, your priority for Venom's combos should be knockdown, giving you time to setup balls to prepare your okizeme and pressure. His main normals to end combos on the ground are 2D and 6HS. Always cancel these enders into a ball summon, or you can go for meaty charge QV oki. In addition, 6HS enders that are high and close enough can have QV added as a finisher for a bit of extra damage. For reference, Venom's prorated (weaker) starters are 5P, 2P, 5K, and 2K. Throws also prorate. Tip: Delaying your IAD until late in c.S(3) or QV S>5P combos can help, as well as doing 866 for the motion[/collapse] Combo Parts IMPORTANT[collapse] 1. 866 j.SHSD |> 6HS 2. Ground hit: KQV > 5P > 6P > BH > 6HS 3. Air Hit: KQV > 6P > BH > 6HS 4. SQV > 5P > BH > IAD j.SHSD |> 6HS 5. Air Hit: SQV > 5P > BH > 6HS [/collapse] Mid-screen[collapse] Theory Venom's midscreen combos for the most part can be split into two types: standing and crouching confirms. On standing opponents, Venom gets a c.S(3) launcher (as well as crouching Potemkin, Bedman, and Leo) and can followup with a delayed air dash j.SHSD |> 6HS, usually done with 866 (delay a bit longer on Sol, Faust, and Millia). Sometimes 2866 is easier on an individual basis. It even works with a prorated starter (5P, 2P, 5K, or 2K). Crouching opponents have two routes: 2D. or c.S(2) > QV. Getting the 2D is important, and you can nearly freely chain into from any of his normals (the exception is 5HS). The important thing is knowning Venom's 2D range well so you always score the knockdown. QV routes need some testing, but you can combo after the QV. 623HS can be added after sweeps for extra damage and pushback, but unless you NEED the damage to kill with or plan to RC it, the knockdown should be done so you can get balls out and remain close. Normal Starters 2K > c.S(2) > 2HS(1) > 2D(2) 2K > 2S > 2D(2) 2K > 2D(2) Those are common examples of ground chains into 2D. As stated in theory, you can go through Venom's ground normals as long as you end in 2D for the knockdown. Beware 2D's shorter range in Xrd though! Sometimes 2K>2D won't work! 2K > c.S(3) > Combo Part 1 or 3. Works with a prorated starter or from c.S(3) alone. Only works on standing characters (Potemkin, Leo, and Bedman are exceptions and can be hit 3 times crouching). Combo Part 1 is preferred for getting the corner carry. Part 3 is the easier variant. Against Millia, and Sol you'll have to delay Combo Part 1 a little more than normal. c.S(2) > Combo Part 2 or 5. Only works on crouching characters. Should be guaranteed in most situations on all characters? Various common starters include jump normals and S Mad Struggle. c.S(2) > Combo Part 4. Works on crouching! I believe it only works on Sol, Millia, Slayer, and Faust (midscreen). 2S > HS Stinger Aim (RC) > c.S(3) > Combo Part 1 Confirm on standing opponents from a distance. Turn 50 meter into extra damage, corner carry, and knockdown. 2S is the most common poke you will be doing this with, but it may come from a f.S too. 2D > HS Stinger Aim (RC) > Combo Part 1 Go for bigger midscreen damage from a low for 50 meter.. Can possibly do a running jump instead of IAD. Maybe with j.K first? Ground Gatling > 5HS or 2D(2) > 623HS RC > 66 j.KSHSD |> 6HS Not sure if these work from low prorated starters. If you need extra damage/corner carry from a crouching opponent, you can do a Double Head Morbid RC. Generally, 3rd hit works best. HSQV Counterhit > 6P > BH > 6HS Basic QV counterhit confirm. With KQV, maybe 5P/5K > 6P > BH > 6HS? 5D > [6] > BH > 66 j.KSHSD |> 6HS Venom's psuedo impossible dust. Timing depends on where the ball hits (usually it's after P set). Sometimes you'll omit the j.K. Recommended to try over raw midscreen dust because of the corner carry, guaranteed knockdown, and safer because the ball is out. [AA] 6P > c.S(1 or 2), > j.HS [AA] 6P > c.S(1 or 2) > j.SPS > dj.SHSD Anti-air 6P combos for when the opponent is on top of you. [AA] 6P > 6HS Anti-air when the opponent isn't directly on top of you, probably what you'll be going for most of the time. Only guaranteed on counter or ball hit. On regular hit, not much else you can try... Throw Starters Ground Throw > c.S (3) or (slight dash) 2HS(2) > Carcass Raid S > Combo Part 1 Ground Throw > c.S (3) or (slight dash) 2HS(2) > Carcass Raid S > IAD j.SHSD |> jKSHSD |> 6HS. Venom's midscreen throw combos come in two flavors: corner carry and setup. While setup combos were kind in AC+R netting you 3 balls, one of which is lightning, Venom's corner carry is greatly improved in Xrd and lightning balls don't exist anymore, so corner carry generally takes priority. Start charging while doing the dash asap! The second combo is more advanced for a little extra damage and some more corner carry. On Bedman, use 2HS (1). Ground Throw > (slight dash) 2HS(2) > Carcass Raid S > 66 j.KSHSD |> 6HS Works on the whole cast midscreen actually. Notes: Timing is tighter on MI, CH, MA, ZA, VE, LE. VERY hard (but not impossible!) to do on KY, likely not worth it. Ground Throw > (slight dash) 2HS(2) > 6HS Easy mode combo. Ground Throw > (slight dash) 5P > 5P > 6HS Completely burst safe combo. Air Throw |> c.S(1/2) > 214HS > 6P > BH > 6HS This combo will work from about max normal jump height. Consistent knockdown from air throw is great! Special Starters Mad Struggle Treat it as a jump normal essentially and see the combos off of normal starters. HS Stinger Aim (YRC/RC) Treat it as a low proration starter (80%). On YRC, if you wait until the last possible moments to start combo, the proration actually disappears. Hard to confirm that mid match though... 623HS RC > 66 j.KSHSD |> 6HS Had meter to spare and it landed? Confirm into this. Overdrive Starters Venom's overdrives don't see use as combo starters unless your opponent did not feel like blocking the Dark Angel you through out, or you threw out a Dark Angel during pressure right when they used a Dead Angle Attack. In that case, just hurry to the corner and let it do its thing....yeah. [/collapse] Corner[collapse] Normal Starters 2K > c.S(3) > Combo Part 1 or 3 > Combo Part 3, 4, or 5 > QV Standing only. Corner combos let you get essentially 2 combo parts as opposed to the one you get midscreen. 2D > HS Stinger Aim (RC) > Combo Part 1 > Combo Part 3, 4, or 5 Go for bigger corner damage from a low for 50 meter.. Can possibly do a running jump instead of IAD. Maybe with j.K first? 2D (1) > S Carcass > Slight Dash c.S(1) > j.KSHSD |> 6HS Meterless 2D damage, but harder to do. Delay j.HS > j.D on some characters. Airdash j.SD> 6HS> Combo Part 4 > QV Option off of airdash. No need to confirm standing or crouching opponent. Airdash j.SHS |> c.S(2) > Combo Part 2 or 4 > QV BnB on Crouchers. 5D > j.SHSD |> c.S(1) > 5HS > Combo Part 2 or 4 Throw Starters Throw > 5HS > Combo Part 4 , |> 66 j.KSHD, |> 6HS Opitmized combo from TittyFOFO. "Seems universal. Best to take a step backwards before the 5HS against characters with fat hitboxes, or the 5P and ball will hit at the same time and you won't have time to IAD. 5HS can be swapped with 6HS against most characters to net another 5 damage or so." Throw > 5HS > Combo Part 4 > QV Doesn't work on Faust. Throw > 5HS > Combo Part 2 > QV Universal Combo. Combo Part 2 in this case used on aerial opponent. Air Throw > c.S > j. HS Combos are limited from corner air throw sadly. Anyone who could help here... Special Starters Mad Struggle S > c.S(2) > Combo Part 4 > QV Crouching combo. Might be character dependent? If so, perhaps can try other combo parts or going into sweep. Stinger and Double Head apply the same rules as before, and you should be able to get 2 combo parts. Overdrive Starters Still not practical. Get knockdown and set formations off of sporadic unblocked Dark Angels. [/collapse] WIP Third update! Corner combos knocked out. Going to see what else I can add soon enough based on user contributions, but I'll probably work on other stuff for now.

See Venom is going to be on my screen...a lot....so to me...kind of does.

As to my knowledge, none of us have played in Japan/EVO/conventions, we don't know... ...what I do know is that you can c.S IAD j.S in +R. Doesn't seem terribly hard there with some practice. But alas, it still is easier to do it without IAD technically. But the strongest players to my knowledge outside the corner always air dash. But none of us probably have a clue about QV 5P IAD combos though.

"2K > c.S(3) > j.S > j.H > j.D > 6HS > Set" Does this work without IAD? If it does, I'd rather see it with IAD for the extra corner carry. Same for the likes of 6P > c.S(2) > j.S > j.H > j.D > 6HS > Ball Set Note that 6P>c.S anti-air only works when the opponent is close enough. If further spaced, the only option is 6P>6HS (which is only guaranteed on counterhit fyi) or maybe 6P>623S? Note the first Mad Struggle combo won't be too useful in general (although it should be kept in mind). As an overhead, most of the time you'll be hitting crouching opponents. Second throw combo should probably be j.D>6HS ending. I think all 6HS enders can have a QV hit when the opponent is high enough.

Ok couple of quick things to note. I'm not sure if K and S QV both apply to the 6P, 6HS and 5P IAD combos. Please differentiate between f.S and c.S instead of using 5S. Was confused for a moment. Note the c.S(3) doesn't work on crouchers anymore (#R status there). Maybe Pot? I'm not sure. I'm not doubting you, but I am curious, how did you get the damage values?

Believe me, it's .....uggggggggg. My tier list: S+: Axl S: Sin Bedman A: Zato, May, Faust, Maybe Slayer if j.S laugh is good *gap* B: Everyone else *another gap* C: Ramlethal D: Venom

Hmmm I didn't notice it feeling much different. There is a small buffer as admitted by Daisuke and Pachi I believe in interviews though, not sure about windows? Damn it Venom. How much British accent does he have? Well his Japanese voice will never let me down ^_^;;;

Last day to pre-reg is November 29th! Get on it people!

Also my last, heh. Uniel: 1: Shine (WA) 2: Doonpa (HI) 3: Sabin (HI) 4: Haven 5: Mindgame 5: Necro Undine 7: Flux 7: Hard Bread 9: A3R 9: Apollo 9: Mynus BB: 1: Lord Knight (KO/VA) 2: SKD (IZ/RG) 3: Haven (JI) 4: Mindgame 5: Sodelic 5: JacopeX 7: GreatFernMan 7: Kazen 9: Tomahawk 9: Kuzu 9: Vandel 9: Flux 13: Crisis Edge P4U2: 1: Doonpa (S.NA) 2: Lord Knight (MA) 3: Elochai (EL) 4: Justice (KE) 5: Haven 5: MilkChan 7: Sodelic 7: Necro Undine 9: GreatFernMan 9: Divine Shadow 9: NecroGuffaw 9: Hard Bread 13: Vandel 13: Kazen 13: Zero Fenrir 13: Smash Ketcum 17: Get Selious 17: Kuzu GGAC+R: 1: Mynus (IN) 2: Zidane (SO) 3: A3R (JO) 4: Shine 5: DaiAndOh 5: Greentea 7: Apollo 7: Just Casuals 9: PAG Celderon 9: Crisis Edge 9: Kitsoru 9: Monz Dengeki: 1: SKD (KR) 2: Necro Undine (TO) 3: Sabin (KU) 4: Flux 5: Lord Knight 5: Awesome Fox 7: Elochai 7: Tomahawk 9: Baccano! 9: Zero Fenrir 9: Kain VSav: 1: JayOne (SA) 2: Apollo (ZA) 3: Lord Knight (BU) 4: DaiAndOh 5: Haven 5: Hard Bread 7: Get Selious 7: Shine

Faust is also a lot easier to play. There's a few top Faust players but only one top Zato player. I don't think anyone doubts at that level of play, the two characters are of comparable strength, but I suppose it could go either way in ranking them.

There's more formations you can do with as well. All that matters is your spacing with the ball and 5hs.

The formation is P->K I believe. He charges immediately after pressing hs. You get more time to charge because of the 5hs hitting the ball, and it's very hard. In the location tests, I did hear that Venom's charge times were reduced but when the full game came out I heard nothing. Maybe they have been? That would definitely help with that combo...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNUt9sL0afs#t=33m07s Chipp vs AO1 (Venom) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNUt9sL0afs#t=44m00s Faust vs AO1 (Venom) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNUt9sL0afs#t=49m00s Ramlethal vs AO1 (Venom)

Very clean! Mind if I try adding them to the wiki later? The gatling table I was told to just use a chart which will be updated in the frame data portion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOtrhgKgexk Sanma(Venom) vs Nage(Faust) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjvHUYZn-wQ Ogawa(Zato) vs Sanma(Venom) (2 matches)

Mostly depends on demand, and what happens with other games (ie, will they continue to get entrants). Likely the last for a good while, hence the name, but you never know.

1. As in pressure? Technically a couple, but his strongest ones such as Carcass Raid and Mad Struggle are still around and as strong as ever. 2. It's something a lot of the cast lost as well (probably hurts Axl the most). It does hurt somewhat, but it doesn't kill the character or anything. Also added move descriptions to the wiki. Check it.

I think the voice announcer set applies to round calls as well based on BB's. Although yes, it would be nice to get #R and maybe even AC classics....and a GG1/GG2 robot style maybe?

Markman has confirmed we're getting it on or before American Release date and preorders are soon.

Look I'm just saying... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58sWQL16k9E

Very nice. I'll check to see if we can use that on the wiki, if not I'll add the data to the gatling table and we can use the image in the coming combo thread.

As stated it is 25, but I'm referencing how powerful YRC is in this case.

I think it's established depending who you ask he's basically low A/high B at this point, console character matchups pending. Not as low as Axl or Potemkin at the very least. Basically though, his weaknesses are no reversal (even with meter), less than average health, mediocre mixup while pressuring (it's strong in quite a few okizeme situations) low reward off of poking game and anti-airs (And maybe the anti-airs themselves are mediocre like in AC+R, I'd need to see for myself though).

Potemkin was certainly built for air combos in AC+R. He wasn't so much in AC, but having that option made his short air combos really powerful helping them out. Yes Grinders are different than EX Star. It's DIFFERENT. That's the point. I'm not saying Force breaks need to be Xrd, should be in Xrd or anything like that. I'm saying they're not inferior options at all. Part of the reason I hear they were removed was because there were too many good options for 25 meter (yet YRC exists...ok ASW...)