greatfernman

no i mean you're comboing him and then after 5H you go for 6H instead of just knocking him down with rekkas i don't actually remember you doing 5H 6H in pressure much, you do it midcombo which honestly makes no sense to me

why do you keep going for 6H after 5H it doesn't combo... you also drop so many confirms that could be damage and knockdown and opt to just press buttons that don't combo or do berserker slash, I don't get it.

DAA OS is kinda dumb too and I think that's staying in in 1.1 Blitz return OS is not that bad imo but I'd personally rather not have it either

http://mayjunkie.web.fc2.com/system.txt kedako's data, it's in japanese

you're suggesting that people use the two frames of invul on RCing to dodge stuff? If somebody can do that in a match consistently then all the power to them YRC is invul on the 6th frame and the 25th frame, but 7~24 is time stop and both characters cannot move, so.

firstly that's five hits. there's more than just BS proration being factored in there, there's negative guard bar to factor in too secondly it's 19.6% reduction (20 damage of 102 damage can't possibly be more than 20%)

it's 85% proration iirc

i mean it wasn't really a calculation. it was the frame data that the official wiki gave.

if you get rejected you have 24f before the opponent even moves, and the game actually shouts at you rejected. it's really kind of easy to react to

new S sonic boom range is about the same as rensengeki

loketest 2 change list 6P recovery from 10 to 13f S sonic boom no longer infinite range, instead range increased a little :c S DP first hit knockback back to how it used to be counter damage back down to 60

Wiki data is probably wrong on the stance normals frame data if it's still following kedakos data. The 4gamer data had 1 less frame in recovery. Also kedako calculated stance s wrong anyway, according to his data it should be -2 not +2. But it's -1 cause 1 less recovery. Also what do you mean 214H on block. Like on stagger? Iirc its +3 if the opponent mashes out fast enough (lvl2 and above) Oh yeah another thing about Leo frame data, 4gamers new section with all the dash values etc listed Leo jump startup as 5f not 4f

Not stance transition. Only stance cancel.

uhhh because not having to read the opponent and limiting opponent options is good?

yeah fino replied, he said you can combo off S DP trade

translated from: https://twitter.com/fino_077/status/563643035234217985 all of him is strong, i think he's top tier. and nobody knows the matchup so he feels way too strong. S fireball and S DP are too strong, if they were reverted to how they were before i think that would be good adjustments don't know why S DP is strong, I tweeted at fino, awaiting his reply

I translated the full changelist from: https://twitter.com/hontosumanhossa/status/563348317392736256 https://twitter.com/hontosumanhossa/status/563348666123968512 https://twitter.com/hontosumanhossa/status/563348947406577664 https://twitter.com/hontosumanhossa/status/563349295093391360 https://twitter.com/hontosumanhossa/status/563349880031027200 5K: 5K now gatlings into 6P c.S: Hitbox and hurtbox extended veritcally Dust: Hitbox extended forward 2S: Proration removed (used to be 90) 2H: Hitbox extended forward j.K: Hitbox and hurtbox extended vertically j.S: Hitbox extended vertically j.H: Hitbox and hurtbox extended vertically Cancel window extended Throw: Throw range increased DAA: Hitbox extended forward [4]6S: Now has infinite range Lower region of the hitbox is larger [4]6H: Moves slower Lower region of the hitbox is larger [2]8S: Opponent floats higher when the first hit hits (? not so sure about this one) 236H (during rekkas): Made it harder for a larger distance to be established between Leo and his opponent (? not so sure about this too) 214S (during rekkas): Added throw invul Stance D (b.D): Damage changed from 60 to 90 Can now be YRCed, but only at the beginning 214S (during stance): Rolling time on counter hit reduced Cannot be teched (not sure if on counter hit or regular hit) Stance cancel: Reduced to 12f from 17f j.236H: Cannot be burst on hit Advantage on hit changed from +2 to +3 632146H: Made it easier for all hits to hit until the end (??? this one I'm really not sure about, I think it's saying the opponent doesn't pop out of weapon x as easily but I'm not sure) Instant Kill: Invul frames reduced (it used to be all the way through recovery lol) Forward Dash: Distance increased Midair hitstun animation: Hurtbox larger for one part of the animation

yeah idk what he means that it's like bentengari now but we'll see. i'm still trying to find tweets about the full list of leo changes but to no avail

https://twitter.com/simo_niki/status/563158324628041728 dash distance extended S DP is like Reload bentengari?? (not sure if i translated that right) seems that DP changed so all hits will hit (was there ever a case where all hits of DP didn't hit?) stance D can really only the YRCed at the very first few frames

my bad edited and here it is pasted 5K: 5K now gatlings into 6P [4]6S: Now has infinite range Lower region of the hitbox is larger [4]6H: Moves slower Lower region of the hitbox is larger 214S (during rekkas): Added throw invul Stance D (b.D): Damage changed from 60 to 90 Can now be YRCed, but only at the beginning j.236H: Cannot be burst on hit Advantage on hit changed from +2 to +3

I translated the changes from the change list https://www.evernote.com/shard/s296/sh/81dc6240-3441-41c0-a695-1a31d8829abd/343aa75820e81634b9e3e4fb3ca1c2dd

if how good normals are and damage have almost nothing to do with design then of course design doesn't determine how good a character is. you just give any character fullscreen normals that kill in a single hit.

I was declining to share my view on Leo until I played more people, and my views are still tentative since I've only played some netplay and had one offline meetup since getting back to New York (after playing pretty much only the Millia matchup for a month straight), but I thought I'd just post my thoughts here since people were asking where he stands. Leo wrecks people who don't know the matchup, but once you learn it he just folds. When he enters stance right next to you he is decently strong, at least until you FD and push him out and he's forced to do stupid risky stuff again to get back in. He has really bad hurtboxes on his pokes and so a lot of his normals are free to low profile and disjointed hitboxes. He's really not mobile at all either so that isn't helping. Out of stance he has no standing overheads outside of dust, which has decent startup and is only -1 but has terrible range and doesn't gatling from 5H (which vacuums), so it's kind of bad. So in regular mode Leo is just all frame traps. Even then some of his pressure strings are throwable on reaction, and if he transitions to stance on block he's -3 (regardless of if he uses 5/6H). 5H, j.K and j,H are decent normals with kind of slow startup but they're still pretty good. He has a bunch of pretty average normals and then some really terrible ones. His greatest asset is probably just damage and the fear that comes along with the threat of damage, he also has 1.00 defense and Potemkin guts so I guess Leo can just go nuts and take big risks and hope you fold under the stress. All in all I think Leo is trash. I don't think he has any matchup he wins (except maybe Slayer), and he has maybe only very few (if any) even matchups. I'd probably rank him around Pot/Axl/Slayer, but I'm still a little iffy on his exact strength relative to the cast. Edit: Stance super (the projectile) is really really really good though (5+0). It's probably his best move and a big threat in the neutral game from any range if he's in stance. Edit again: I said he has no safe way to transition into stance in pressure, but there is one little really glitchy thing which I haven't been able to get to work consistently where sometimes the cross up dash special (236H) done after 5H doesn't have the lengthy run through animation and instead becomes a true block string (removing its weakness of being throwable). So if somebody figures out how to do that consistently then that'll be a safer way to transition into stance on block (+1) Disclaimer: I didn't go check up on my frame data and this is all off the top of my head so.

I was talking with satou and he said venom has bad matchups against the s tiers and that ino does pretty good against s tier. So that may have factored in. We weren't comparing ino and venom or anything, just chatting, so take it with a grain of salt.

Sorry I'm about to head out. Maybe later as far as i'm aware leo won't be throwable until he can act again so if they run up and try to throw you can P or K them i think. if they meaty your invul to beat P or K then you can counter again to beat that. this is just theory fighting though so that it with a grain of salt