chzchan

I always thought Phalanx was level "opponent projectile level" + 1. That's always how it has felt at least, thought I have not does extensive testing. Projectile levels aren't recorded on the wiki are they.

Will the jcc stuff be considered pushing your limits? Hahaha.

I'm in far too deep to even attempt to crawl out at this point, but that is just an excuse. What keeps me playing her is a composite of a lot of things. The way she works when the opponent lets her game run is how I have grown used to playing. Cycling through pressure as a rushdown character and being reliant on a resource is just fun for me. I love spending hours in training mode trying to create things that people have never seen before regardless of how effective they are. I like trying as hard as I can to make up for where her faults are and just coming up with new ways to approach different situations all the time. I guess this can be done with any character, but I find joy in doing so with this one. Even if I complain all the time and continuously repeat "It's hopeless, how the hell do you deal with this, why can't I win against X, etc." I'm usually just joking around or trying to instigate conversation. Probably one of the most satisfying things about playing her, at least the way I play her, is the responses I get from my opponent. "How in the hell did you do that?" "Seriously what the fuck are you doing?" "Why did I get hit by that?" "Tsubaki has resets?" That is what truly makes me happy. If I was playing Carl, Kokonoe, or Litchi for example, even if I pulled off something new or strange while playing, the opponent would sort of expect that to happen and not really think much of it because they know that each of those characters has endless depth. When someone gets obliterated by 4 different Tsubaki resets in a row, their attention is caught because she is supposedly a fairly shallow character. Whether I win or lose, a lot of my opponents are curious about all the supposedly new things I do and I am more than happy to explain exactly why things happen. Hatemail is the best because I get to go in depth into exactly what decision the opponent made wrong and why what I did worked, though I have been receiving more positive remarks both online and offline recently. This won't really change much in 2.0 and you are right about her being stronger. I guess the walls of complaints act as thicker a barrier to entry than character difficulty does so we could all stop complaining once in a while. I just look forward to labbing for hours and hours when 2.0 comes out to do exactly what I do now and see if I can create any new/original knowledge or gimmicks along the way and sort of forge Tsubaki some artificial depth. I did say I was in too deep above, but it is really funny because with what I do I just keep digging myself in deeper.

It's considered crazy if you practice all day? I thought that was a normal thing among the FGC. I can sit in the training room for hours and hours with a smile on my face. I guess pulling things off in a live match is another story though. I have been steeling myself for DP whiff routes nonstop and practicing jcc > OD on different characters to get a feel for what jcc is like so that the 214D > jcc > CT route comes naturally when 2.0 hits. What you do to tell if you jcc'd correctly or not is if OD is considered a cancel or a raw OD. I have been practicing with Hakumen's Enma which is both OD and jump cancellable on hit. If I time things right I can get the OD to be raw using jcc instead of shortened if the OD cancel is used while still being on the ground. It means that I cancelled into OD out of jump startup which is what will have to be done for CT in the new route. I know it will definitely be different in feel, but I think this will prepare me somewhat. Just realized right now I could be practicing this with Tsubaki's 6C as well since it is both OD and jump cancellable on hit. Whoops. Actually, are there any characters that have moves that are jump cancellable but not special (CT) cancellable?

Ah, sorry about that. Wait so these work because of the height the opponent is left off of the ground after 6D~A as well as the starter, right? I've only been doing really shallow tests of stuff offline right now, so I am bound to be thinking about things incorrectly like I have been for a while. How much faster does 2.0 3C look faster to you as someone who is probably able to notice the subtleties? That's what I want to try and confirm since you gave some numbers earlier, though those were only about 2B. I'm not exactly sure how it can be tested.

I'm not even that excited, at least about the combos in that specific video, because there isn't that much in depth info available, but that is mostly because I can't read Japanese. I just want information so that I can analyze things properly without jumping the gun. The example of the corner combo earlier I would have never ever been able to notice with the quality of information available. The fact that this route even existed surprised me because, at least so far, it seems like chargeless Tsubaki combos are not dependent on screen placement. I'm just here to learn, attempt to provide knowledge/scrutiny, and get corrected when I am incorrect.

So does 22 not come out immediately when fully charged anymore? I'm very curious about all of this stuff. They must have really changed up the frame data here.

Actually, can't the new speed of 3C be figured out by taking into account the new combo route with Etc. > 2D~A > 5D~A > 6D~A > 3C? How fast would it need to be for that to work right now? Or do you think that changes to the stance moves may be affecting it rather than 3C? 3C does look really damn fast, though.

Thank you very much for going into more depth with the information. I would not have noticed the subtlety myself. I understand now. Is the shorter fully charged time change spread across the entire 22X series? Lets say you get a FC 6A/22[D], will that increase the stability of the link?

From looking at the video some more I think I know the difference between j.236A > j.214A ender and j.214A ender besides the difference in charge gained which is shown at the very start of the video. j.214A has much less untech time as it seems to allow tech upon reaching the ground while j.236A > j.214A causes a slight amout of slide before the tech window opens. It sort of looks like j.214A causes a very very subtle bounce. Also, if 5CC > 236D > 22 > 5D > 6C works in the corner then the untech scaling shouldn't be too terrible for the link.

That's also something I am looking forward to doing. I want to make a line graph of supposed strength/placement as time goes by. It'll be pretty hard to do because even now perspectives/opinions are pretty mixed and mottled.

Okay I must not be understanding something here then. At least from what I read in Errol's post, the combos in the video will be too difficult to do and if you mess up which will be really easy to do, you will get punished hard. But is he referring to all of the combos in the video? Is he referring specifically to the corner combo that I mentioned? I feel like I am definitely missing something in this conversation. I'm sorry for not picking up on something so straightforward.

Are you talking about the juggling ones or just the simpler ones? The DP whiff stuff seems a lot easier to do from the videos. 22 > 5D > 6C doesn't seem that unstable. I already have a lot of gimmicks that I use that require me to have a set number of followups in a combo because of how reliant they are on the untech timer to work, so I am used to having to go into the specials before hitting BBCC etc.

But doesn't that have more to do with 5D? They are doing 22(followup) > 5D > 6C in the corner which is just unheard of. You are probably right about the untech scaling, though.

I guess we do have corner combos after all. I wonder why none of the Tsubakis on twitter had been posting them. The fact that 22 can be followed up with 6CC > IAD combo in the corner is huge. They must have given it special knockdown properties while only in the corner like how they gave Azrael's TCL wallstick in the corner.

Oh man this is great. I have been waiting for a video with this level of analysis. Thanks man. 6A starter midscreen with 1 dingle and 25 heat into 4k is amazing. 623D > j.214A(w) > 2C is reliable midscreen. Being able to follow up 236D is based on height. 421D > 236D launches high enough to follow with 6C even on a standing opponent while you only need 236D to go into 6C if the opponent is already in the air. OH BOY. Okay so j.214D is can be followed up with 623C > j.236A(w)/j.214A(w) > 5C instead of 2A > 5C to continue the combo. That's amazing. Wait wait wait. I just saw 236A > 214B > 22 > 5D > 6C in the corner. How is that possible when 5C isn't? Does it have to do with OTG-ability? Does that mean you can follow up with 2B? What did they do to 22B? They must have increased 6C's untech time or decreased 22's time to reach full charge because using 6C on a grounded non-standing target cannot be followed up with 22 at the moment. Also that 3CC. Damn. They must have decreased the recovery or increased the launch height or something. Looks like 236C > 236236D is a thing too. 236236C in OD followup is damn cool. I guess it will be useful combo fodder now if you are willing to blow the OD but don't want to spend all of your charges by going into Mugen. It does have a 92 P2.

Oh, well I take meter into account when I put all the characters on a scale since all characters have lower risk with meter if they are willing to spend it that way. It is already zeroed with meter on the scale.

I don't want it to devolve into silly stuff, but I guess it isn't a good idea to let it go on for long because it is only related to 2.0 and news by a tangent. I guess I understand your perspective now, though you do say that his uppercut is sorta BS which kind of sort of goes along with characters having certain aspects of them that are honest/dishonest. Thanks for the information. I agree with you. I'm going to use Nu-13 as an example here even though I don't have too much experience with her, so mains correct me if I am wrong. I see her neutral game as honest because, even though it is incredibly powerful, if she makes a mistake, she will get completely screwed. There is nothing to cover bad or scrubby gameplay, at least in 1.X. Whiffing something as her means death, so I feel like the ratio is balanced. Then there's Azrael where you have to question whether it is even a good idea to try to attack him if he whiffs anything due to ridiculously low recovery and long active frames. I could also use the example I made of Tsubaki's DP that can be made safe because that option can be used to cover a huge mistake and mitigate risk.

I'm actually just waiting for someone to start proving me wrong instead of asking me to prove myself correct because I really have no idea if I should continue with my explanation with how wrong I could be about everything. Also it isn't a 2.0 only thing. One other thing to note is that characters aren't completely honest or dishonest, but they have honest and dishonest things that they can do. It is a net value kind of thing to me. Like there are no characters that are 100% honest, but there are ones that are more honest than others. Again, this is based on my acute distorted view on all of this. Hell, I don't even think that what I am referring to should be labelled as honesty at all, but I can't think of another word for it.

I view honesty from a risk + effort vs reward perspective. For example, if a character has a move that can be easily used in neutral with minimal repercussions that has a great hitbox structure, that is dishonest to me. But risk + effort is not limited to hitbox structure, but can include gameplan and properties of normals/specials. Also reward is not just damage, but final positioning, placement, overall resource gain, psychological advantage, etc. Like a character can still be really bad, but have really dishonest moves and things they can do. I hear honesty often associated with how bad/weak a character is, but even bad characters have dishonest things they can do. Tsubaki, for instance, can make her DP slightly safer and prevent the opponent from getting a CH with their punish. From my perspective that is dishonest. I have a feeling I will have a really difficult time explaining this and that I am probably severely misinterpreting "honesty" whatever the hell it may mean. It is good to get different perspectives, so I am going to ask what makes a character honest to you? I'm still really confused too.

Goro (MK) VS Kuresu (TS) Man they just keep running into each other don't they. It's like less than half of the new combo routes I have been seeing Kuresu use work on Makoto. Damn I really hope everything isn't more character specific than it currently is for Tsubaki combos.

Yeah it'll definitely be fun getting more Ragna and Jin matchup experience. I already have more fights against those two characters than any other in every online mode. I was actually surprised after checking the numbers that I had not fought more Terumis with the sheer mass of them that appeared near release. I'm just glad that I am able to find more diversity in character selection at locals, at least at the moment. I hope that things will stay relatively the same offline after the 2.0 console release happens.

Another opinion of mine is that the two characters I referred to are definitely not honest. They are solid, but not honest. In 2.0 they will be solid and have the ability to end rounds faster. I guess definitions of honesty come into play here, though, so I can't really argue anything. Honesty is a term that I have been hearing thrown around at the two FGCs I go to more often recently and it really feels like everyone has a completely different definition of what honesty is so it is sort of funny to hear them argue.

I think Izayoi deserves the spot she has now, but damn have I never ever wanted Jin or Ragna to ever be at the top. It has always been frustrating to fight them and now it will be even more frustrating. This is 100% my opinion, though. I guess at least the rounds won't last as long because of how much damage the two of them can do now, especially Ragna.

It is kind of depressing that two of the starter Pokemon are supposedly the strongest based on first impressions. I'm not one to believe or follow lists, so I am guessing that the reason why things are like this is because the two of them are just that simple so all of the new things and changes for them have been completely explored and the ones who play them are able to fully utilize these changes immediately. This is what I am hoping is the case. Nu being strong is very apparent in the videos of matches with how well she can pressure and lock people down from a distance. I really shouldn't be able to say anything about this since I only attempted to sub her before, though. She just looks even scarier to fight and much harder to touch now. Sort of mixed feelings about her. I hope that a collective graph or statistics get made soon based on multiple players' perspectives.