chzchan

Okay that makes sense. So I just ate the present. Oh also, I wanted to post this in the combo discussion thread, but it is closed at the moment. Just a sideswitch out combo out of 1 charge grab that I have been using recently. It does more damage than the conventional route, but you don't get slide ender. I guess there's a sideswitch route with slide ender too, but you have to do delay shenanigans and it does 200 less damage. [1 Charge] Grab > 22[D] > 6CC > 214B > 623C > j.236A > j.214A [3508 DM] [25% HG]

Are you sure? So it just destroys the projectile? Does the Ground Aura do this as well?

Apparently j.236D > j.214D has projectile invuln. I just pulled a DP on a Plat who had a super present right on top of her and I Air Aura'd right through the present's two part activation and was able to confirm the DP without getting hit. I'll go over the replay in a bit to really see if it happened the way I think it did, but I think the wiki should be updated.

If he did as great as he did with Makoto in 1.X, no doubt will he do better now that Makoto is net buffed in 2.0.

Welp I guess I was wrong about that move being a DP. It does have invuln while charging though, so I guess it will just be a good deterrent against jump ins because of the invuln + huge hitbox. Any more information on things that had turned out to not be as scary or good as originally speculated? I am interested.

Well, at least with the low quality info we have now it will be fun making comparisons to the more reliable info we will eventually recieve. Then we can all look back on these times and laugh.

Though this one isn't even ODR, I found this one the funniest thing ever. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_wteADtFRg&t=1m20s

That's horrifying. I already really hate projectiles that don't go away if you by some miracle smack the opponent as it is coming out, but why does Jin of all characters have to get one as well? It isn't even a special move.

Oh yeah one thing that I am pretty sure the Japanese Tsubakis were talking about on twitter was how that 3C cannot be used out of anything anymore as in we aren't going to be getting 3CC enders anymore.

Thank you for the advice and information. I'll keep trying, though I feel like building up the patience to deal with a defensive/cautious Bang will take some time. The "make him waste nails" strategy is something that I usually end up doing. I don't think I have ever taken a round from a Bang that hasn't already used up all of his nails.

Oh I don't have much of a problem when the Bang plays offensively. You are correct that 2C does wonders (when he isn't apply pressure from behind with j.4B). It is when he doesn't approach me or rush me down and baits my AAs when I have the real trouble. Saving nails for nothing but disrupting my neutral is something one Bang player I fight very often does only in fights against me. Then there's IBing Ashura which I still have not gotten down because it is a get out of corner free card if I don't IB it. Also Bang being able to jump out of any pressure that this character can throw at him and completely avoid hard call air grabs with his extra air option. Don't want to delve too deeply into this because it will just turn into this complaining domino effect again. I understand that you have a lot of weaknesses that I probably should be taking advantage of, but the problem is that I so very rarely catch Bang or gain any ground/momentum on him that I never get to take advantage of his lack of defensive options. It is sort of like with Nu-13 where I can completely blow them up if I get in and am lucky, but I never really get in ever. Most rounds I never even get to lay a finger on Bang. I'm probably just really bad at this game if I can't even catch Bang in neutral, so I think it is more of a problem with me rather than my character.

His neutral options are pretty difficult to deal with already and he has A+ buttons in the air which make him hard to even touch. Pinning him down is very very difficult and requires taking a lot of risks that are unfavorable in both chance and payout. This is coming from the perspective of a character who happens to be an incredibly favorable matchup on Bang's end, so it'd be neat to hear your perspective as well. If the stuff he is getting will give him a real chance against the characters he has had trouble with, I would not doubt that these same changes will make his favorable matchups even more favorable than they are now. I am definitely not fine with Nu and Ragna, though. Especially Nu. That will be a nightmare for me.

Yeah that's pretty surprising. I'm still waiting on people to discover the character in full, but she might be so shallow of a character that she is completely hollow and fully explored already.

Goro (MK) VS Kuresu (TS) Oh boy that 5C punish combo. Kuresu in charge of coming up with the sexiest combos possible. [CH] 5C > 6CC > IAD > j.CC(delay) > 5C > 2C > 214B > 623C > j.236A(delay whiff) > 5C > 2C > j.C > j.CC > j.214A [4155 DM] [30% HG] Lots of things that I could be pointing out, but the things that stick out the most are the fact that Kuresu was using 2B in order to pick up after j.236D > j.214D instead of 6C. Also, he struggled to follow up j.214D with 2A a few times as well which worries me. I don't think he was able to pick up with 2A into a combo midscreen at all in fact. Might just be a Makoto specific thing, though. Also, I don't know if this is just the video playing tricks on me, but Tsubaki seems to reach top speed like almost immediately as if there is no acceleration at all. They did this change on Kagura, so I wonder if it also got done to Tsubaki.

I think I remember Tager's placement had something to do with Dogura putting him in his own special tier that transcends the dimensions of the chart. Don't quote me on that though. Isn't that one post location test? I don't think one has been made for 2.0 yet. It would be really funny if one has already.

The problem is that the likelihood of bitching and spiraling out of control has higher chances of happening with bringing up certain characters' "inefficiencies" when opposed to others. It is almost like even mentioning certain characters' names is pretty much prohibited at this point. You do have the right idea, though. Things will be more civil this way.

Ah, I probably should have rewatched the video on my computer instead of basing what I posted on what I saw on my phone. At the time, I swore he was doing 5A, but, after watching it now, you are right. He definitely was not doing 5A. I saw the startup of 5C the first time the 5B CH happened, but I'm not sure what it was the second time. It'd be nice if 22B was at least -2 or maybe a bit more instead of where it is right now. Lets see. at least with the 5C example, if he had mashed it right after 22B, 5B would either need to be faster or 22B had to be at least -4.

I've been trying out some unconventional resets using Mugen recently. I actually stumbled upon this by accident online after messing up a Mugen combo and dashing up to the opponent instead of doing my inputs correctly. I thought, huh, Mugen lets you out of superfreeze 3 frames before your opponent is able to move and turns the recovery of any move you cancel out of into 0+7 after taking a look at the frame data. So what I have been practicing is using Mugen out of not so great confirms like 2B or 5A/2A (sometimes 6A) after I have reached 5CC or really any time. You have to do it fast, but if you activate Mugen, you can just dash up and start running your stuff. So far, I have found that out of 5CC > Mugen, you have enough time to run up and purple grab the opponent without fear of DPs or reversals. This means you can slightly delay the grab to get yourself a green grab. Kara grab works even better. I have been having some good laughs with this because people expect some big damage Mugen combo, but I just grab them instead and do even more damage than I would have out of the original confirm I landed. It works really well, especially when the opponent trusts that you will do a combo if Mugen activates. If your opponent gets too used to the grabbing, then you can go for safe TRM setups thanks to how safe you are when you dash in. Since you are in Mugen and the opponent hopefully knows that you landing in one hit will probably deal a bit more damage, it gives you a psychological edge if you just end up pressuring them or trying to mix them up instead of going for the grab. You also have the ability to do infinite D specials in pressure as well. If you do get in the grab, even with 1 stock at the beginning of Mugen, you will still be able to do 421D > 236D out of the grab while in Mugen which leads to some pretty great damage. If you go for the mixup and don't get a confirm within the first couple hits, you have enough Mugen bar to do 421D > 236D on the opponent to stay on them and continue pressure. 5A > 5CC > Mugen > Dash 5A > 5BB > 2BB > Mugen > Dash 2BB > 5BB > Mugen > Dash 6A > 5CC > 6BB > Mugen > Dash Stuff like this. The closer you are left to the opponent the better because every frame counts. Grab > 421D > 236D > 6CC > 214B > 623C > j.236A > j.214A Simple combo out of 1 dingle. Nets 4197 damage and 30 heat. Grab > 421D > 236D > 6C > CT > 6B > 623C > j.236A > j.214A If you have at least 53 heat, you can use the heat you gain during the combo to throw in a CT to deal a bit more damage if you really only have 1 dingle. Gets you a whopping 4650 damage, but only 3 heat in the end. Grab > 421D > 236D > 22[D] > 6CC > 623C > j.236A > j.214A This one needs just slightly above 1 dingle, so I'm going to say 1.25 dingles. Nets 4544 damage and 33 heat. Grab > 421D > 236D > 22[D] > CT > 6CC > 623C > j.236A > j.214A Same here, you can just throw in a CT using the combo's massive heat gain. Still need at least 1.25 dingles for the 22[D] to happen. Need minimum 54 heat, but you get 5121 damage and 4 heat gain out of this one. Grab > 421D > 236D > 22[D] > 6C > CT > 6B > 623C > j.236A > j.214A Yet another one, but this one has no heat requirement. You need exactly 50 for Mugen and you're home free because you get exactly 25 heat from doing the combo up till you need to use the CT. It does slightly less damage than the one above at 5034 and you get 3 heat instead of 4 at the end. Grab > 421D > 236D > 623D > j.236D > j.214D > 6CC > 623C > j.236A > j.214A Here's another out of 2.25 dingles. Nets 5172 damage and 36 heat. More heat is attained in both combos when compared to the conventional Grab > Mugen combos because the heat gauge cooldown happens for the duration of the grab rather than for the duration of 421D > 236D. Also the grab's heat gain is not affected by the cooldown, so you get more heat out of this than anything else. Probably a waste of resources to take a risk to deal more damage out of a bad confirm, but I'm having fun with dirty tricks like this. All of this really comes from my desire to get more out of a jab than ~1.6k and a sliding knockdown, even if I have to do something that has a chance of not working in order to do so.

In the Azrael match I kept seeing the Azrael get CH by 5B after mashing if Setoka ended a pressure string with 22B. I wonder if they made it more advantageous on block. The Azrael could have just been mashing really late, though. What surprised me was that 5B was not trading with Azrael's 5A which happens every single goddamn time right now. Maybe they adjusted the hitboxes? Again this just could be the Azrael mashing incorrectly. Something that really concerns me is the fact that 5A>2C is no longer a thing. So if you, for example, get a stray air CH near the ground with j.C and then touch the ground, you will have to do 5C to catch the opponent on their descent. You can try to do 5A>5C>2C but the knock back and spacing might make 2C whiff.

Stagger pressure is really difficult to accomplish reliably online. What I am about to say may be completely wrong, but it is based on my experiences with stagger pressure. So when you use your jabs 5A/2A or really any other move that leaves you at a frame advantage of 0 or higher, you can either continue to gatling into other moves and try for mixups if you don't get pushed out by barrier or dash forward and try to continue pressure. This is only if the character you are using has a run type dash, though. If you get your opponent to think that you will just followup with gapless gatling or gatling that allow for frame traps, they will be more reluctant to hit buttons while you are pressuring. If you then decide to dash forward after your advantageous move the opponent will probably not mash in time to hit you out of it which allows you to catch people. If the ones you are using this on continue to block you can go for a grab or even a TRM setup. If you get the opponent to think that you are going to go in for a grab after dashing in during a pressure reset, you can instead use your jab and then immediately grab and if they tried to tech a grab while in the blockstun of your jab, the grab that you used after your jab will be untechable because they will be in the throw reject miss state for trying to tech when a grab was not even happening yet. I'm pretty sure someone can explain it better than me.

One of the problems with that is the fact that very little discussion ends up happening in subforums compared to this thread even though a lot of the things that are being discussed here should be discussed in the subforums. I think that is what pushes people to post here and continue to come back to the thread. It at least has a pulse and stays alive, so it attracts the attention of the entire community. At least so far we are allowed to have a discussion about what we are allowed to discuss or what we should be discussing. I just find it really funny that things turned out this way.

What other state changing DDs exist that haven't been ported to OD besides Hakumen's Mugen? Well, actually it seems like there are actually some 1.1 Hakumen Mugen properties that were moved to OD in 2.0 or mirrored in OD like 623A's extended dashing range for example. I am pretty sure I saw this in a recent video. It makes me wonder what the properties are in Mugen now that they are also (maybe) in OD as well. Tsubaki and Hakumen are the only characters left on the roster with state changing DDs. I guess there is also Azrael to an extent but not exactly.

Something made it so that I posted twice somehow so welp. Wonder why the countermeasure didn't pop up to keep the second post from appearing. Can't delete posts on this forum.

I was about to post something similar about how the information and quality of said information that we have available is not sufficient for keeping a thread like this going, but I guess I didn't need to. See, at this point, at least with what we have right now it is really difficult to avoid apparently undesirable things from happening without just simply not posting anything. Also, what mac did up there is something that needed to be done. I should have tried to explicitly direct discussion (complaining) like this to the subforum of the character and killed the discussion here just because of how things turned out before. Though even in the character subforum wish lists are semi-forbidden by our watch dog so there really is no place for them. Oh yeah there's those too. I'm pretty sure this only applies to a few characters as well. It'd be neat if a list could be compiled, but I'm not too sure if the data we have right now can be used in the calculation.

Well ODR will favor characters with good reversal DDs or DDs that just generally start up fast. It actually doesn't seem like that great of an option for a good chunk of the cast really. I just wish I could play the game and find all this stuff out for myself, but I guess I'll just keep asking japanese players on twitter and maybe getting information. It's going to be like this for a while with all the information coming secondhand and from observations of videos. It really is the only thing that can be discussed, you know, speculation about how everything may feel or might be like. And also complaining I guess, but nobody wants that.