chzchan

Oh yeah Mugen hasn't been explored at all. Time to dive into that. Looks like Kuresu is already doing that for us. http://www.twitch.tv/sasashima_lejaran/v/26720471 Around 40 minutes in there should be a Tsubaki vs Hazama match and then after that is some labbing.

If you are aware of your position relative to the opponent I'd say it is a better idea. This is just in the case of a hit though. Shouldn't have used "any" there haha. It does suck that 5BB doesn't bring her far forward for the sake of pressure, but I don't see it as a problem combo-wise now that there is access to a range-consistent route thanks to the 6B changes.

You should never be using 5BB to confirm any standing 5B hit since 5B>6B works. I'm going to have to rid myself of the habit eventually as well. It might even be faster. Who knows. I am unsure how to figure out actual startup at the moment but I'll try. I have been reading a ton about j.236D and j.D on twitter so I am going to do most of the tests with those since it seems like they open up a lot of potential paths with multiple 6Cs. I want to see if there is any combo utility using j.214C's wallsplat if I do anything special with air spacing. I am seeing a ton of information/combos pointing to j.D no longer having landing recovery or at least maybe having less so that is pretty huge in my eyes. I could also not be reading things correctly which is highly likely, but I'll just have to see for myself.

I had some trouble with it but that's mostly because I can't play stick. I'll have the other player test it out tomorrow. Here are videos of her playing and testing things. https://streamable.com/rdqo https://streamable.com/j6w5 https://streamable.com/77yq https://streamable.com/tivq https://streamable.com/s1o1 Damn I don't know why I uploaded two different videos twice whoops.

Oh yeah if you guys have anything you want me to test, just ask. I'll be going back to the arcade tomorrow night. Buddy above recorded me not knowing how to use stick and I recorded another Tsubaki player and am uploading the videos right now.

I am currently at the arcade in SoCal that has BBCF and I had another Tsubaki player there play while I recorded. She tested a couple things out for me and I'll get to uploading some videos when I get home. The lines are ridiculously long so I'll get to feel things out for myself in a bit. 5B>6B working on standing is really cool and j.214D is definitely harder to follow up on the ground. 2B is at least 10f startup.

I don't think it will be nearly as negative as it sounds, but I will be on the lookout for notes from players saying anything about it. My bet is that they will barely notice it or get used to it fairly quickly.

From the impressions of the team that won ArcRevo. Tsubaki Rating: 7 Her new overhead special is an overhead, and not only its hitbox extends above her as well, but it's also advantageous on block - it seems like a strong move so far. On the other hand, it's harder to delay gatlings now and that hurts Tsubaki a bit. However, you can expect people to find new things as time passes. I'm rather excited to see how she'll turn out. (Zexo)

After reading the notes on OD/EA/AF translated by Hiago, it makes me think that Tsubaki will benefit more heavily from these new system mechanics compared to other characters. This might be a contributing factor to why she may considered strong in CF as I keep being told. I don't know. I already use OD a lot, almost exclusively, but with EA putting you into AF and AF recharging OD faster, I feel that CF Tsubaki should reap all that she can as often as she can since OD will be readily available all the time. The changes to her OD from discussions and notes I have read mean longer minimum OD time and faster passive charge generation in OD. Then she still has the lower charge cancel recovery. Seems like it will be a lot of fun from reading "there is almost no reason not to go into OD at round start" in Tsubaki player loketest impressions.

Here are a few, but you gotta be quick with the dash for the 5C ones. Midscreen [OD + 50%] 5B > 6C > ODC > 236236C > 5C2C > 214B > 5C2CC > j.C > dj.CC > j.214B [4172 DM] [1 Charge + 50%] 5B > 6C > 236236C > 2366D > 5C2C > 214B > 5C2CC > j.C > dj.CC > j.214B [4378 DM] [2 Charges + 25%] 5C(dash) > 421D > 236D > 6C > Crush Trigger > 6B > 623C > j.236{A}(w) > 5C2CC > j.C > dj.CC > j.214B [5235 DM] Corner [2 Charges + 25%] 5C(dash) > 421D > 236D > Crush Trigger > 6CC > IAD j.C{C} > 5C2CC > j.C > dj.CC > j.214B [5679 DM]

This means that raw 22B gets a full combo as a starter if used raw. I remember reading that followup 22B cannot be followed up so you just charge cancel. Backed up by some notes translated by Hiago which says that 22B starter leads to 3k. Also it was originally reported to be even on block, but raw 22B is +2 which is great. Still ridiculously long startup, but things are hopefully looking up.

Yeah so you can get 1 charge from a corner combo still using the j.236A route off of a grab. I am pretty sure that you can't charge cancel 22B and still be able to combo it so this is the alternative to the current corner combo route. Also an example BnB from Naia: 5BB＞5CC＞3段D槌＞5C2CC＞JCJCC＞A翼 3121 Pretty much just standing confirm into 236X > 214X > 22D and the followup version of 22D can be linked to 5C and from there into an air combo.

Haha so apparently j.214C wallbounces now.

I had a friend try to translate a conversation on twitter between Wara and Teraluna. Most of what I got from it is that 2B is faster and cancelling into j.236D out of DP is more punishable since Tsubaki floats slower. Oh wait I lied there's more. j.214D has more recovery as well. Everyone's worried about the usefulness of the new 22X series since the utility of her other specials are getting nerfed.

1. Yes, she has to play pretty real neutral compared to most characters that have ways to protect themselves, disrupt the screen, or enhance their movement and she also has to deal with her buttons not beating out any other characters' buttons near 100% of the time, especially in the air. "Priority" is never a good word to use because it encompasses way too many things to accurately describe anything. I'd say that it isn't because of her lack of range, but because of the structure of her normals. For example, Tsubaki is the only character in the entire roster that doesn't have an air normal with a hitbox behind them and that makes things immensely difficult. She has no low attack that is fast with her 2B having 13 frames of startup and awful reach for how slow it is. She does have the second fastest running speed in the game, though. 2. Her main strength is people not knowing how she works. You have to take a huge advantage of this or else you actually don't have much over other characters at all. She has flexible pressure, but it isn't protected. She can do a lot of damage, but only in the the right situations. I would say she has pretty great meterless damage off of a 5A/2A starter and she gets amazing damage off of air grabs and in the corner. Just looking at things from the perspective of other characters, the degree of the risks you have to take as Tsubaki in order to get anything accomplished seems completely insane. It used to be a lot worse when she didn't do any damage since she not only had to take these risks in order to navigate neutral and open people up, but she also had to succeed nearly double or triple the number of times she needs to do so in BBCPEX because of how low her average damage output was. 3. Yeah you have to try to stick to the opponent like glue and trick them into disrespecting you at the right moments instead of jumping around so you can punish them for doing so. 4. Her command grab nets her 2 charges and people can't tech it like a regular grab so the fear of that can be used to condition people to jump or mash. 5. Here I'll make a list: 236X: The non-D versions of these are not that great to use in neutral unless you have great reads on your opponent because the startup of the 236X series moves her hitbox backward slightly before she charges in. 236C causes you to cross through the opponent during combos which gives you full control over the positioning of a combo with near zero effort or sacrifice. The D version goes a fair distance, is plus on block, and gets a great combo off of any random hit. 214X: This series of specials has body invuln (this means you can still get hit by low attacks, jumping attacks, and grabs) starting on the 6th frame, but is an S starter just like Tsubaki's jabs. 214B doesn't get much damage because of this, but you actually get pretty decent corner carry and damage off of 214D since it is jump cancellable and you can use 214B again in the combo without triggering SMP. 22X: These specials have projectile guardpoint though this isn't too useful since the moves themselves are not too fast. If you do guardpoint a projectile successfully your recovery gets dropped to near zero so you have a chance to move. Because of how long the move is, how far it pushes the opponent away, and how little recovery it has, you can end pressure safely. The D version of the move is just as plus on block as 236D is so you can try to catch the opponent mashing a normal that won't reach you from the distance you will be pushed back and punishing them in recovery instead of hitting them during the startup of their normal. 421X: This is Tsubaki's go-to projectile for use in neutral. Use it to keep people away so you can get charges or get people to approach from the air so you can anti-air them or air grab them into big damage. It can also be used to force the opponent to block on their wakeup if they decide to neutral tech and not opt to roll. The D version of this special takes both of these to another level and the projectile does not go away when you are hit. The projectile lingers for a bit on startup before accelerating across the screen so it can be used as a shield to cover an approach and can even catch rolls after a knockdown because of how much larger it is compared to the 421A projectile. 623X: This one is pretty obvious because it is her DP, so you use it to get out of pressure where there are gaps too small for mashing to work or on wakeup if you are feeling ballsy. j.236X: Her much more risky air projectile that travels at an angle to cover a bigger area. Tsubaki is in recovery until she lands on the ground after using this special, so being a good distance away and only a slight height off the ground is recommended. Just like the D version of the 421X series, the projectile does not go away when you are hit if you use the D projectile though it does not do really much else. The one thing it may be useful for is whiff cancelling your DP into making it look safe. j.214X: Using the non-D versions of this special in neutral isn't the best idea except for getting out of the corner after super jumping with the C version since it travels so far. The D version got buffed to hell in BBCPEX. Aside from the obvious combo utility with allows you to carry corner to corner off of any random confirm, it has ridiculously low recovery for its attack level and speed. If you use it close enough to the ground, it is + on block and it leaves you in the range to grab or command grab the opponent even if the opponent had been using barrier against your pressure because of the fact that the special moves you so far forward. It can be used to bait and punish grabs if you tiger knee the special since it will put you in the air very close to the ground. There is even a way to confirm off of a fuzzy guard setup with the special. You can use it immediately after throwing out a projectile with j.236A in order to try and smack people who run under you in order to punish you in recovery. Just like j.236D, you can cancel your DP on whiff or block to make it look safe. Some people think that they can't punish Tsubaki if they block j.214D after she cancels out of a DP but they can. It is just that they will not get a counterhit when they hit her. So really all that j.214D does is prevent a counterhit from happening at the cost of 1 charge which j.236D does not.

People told me to ask for UNIEL. There is a pretty decently-sized UNIEL crowd that shows up to UCI events so I wouldn't doubt they'd head over to WNF if prompted.

Well you sacrifice a bit of damage by using j.BBs instead of j.CCs, but it makes the links infinitely easier, especially if you go for the standard routes rather than the longer startup normals I showcased. The only thing is that you will get sideswitched midscreen unless you do a neutral double jump rather than a forward double jump after the first j.BB (8 instead of 9). I don't mind this too much since I usually only go for the route when I am near the corner. Also, picked it up from Errol and Kuresu, but you should pretty much 100% of the time try to do air combos with j.BB > dj.CC instead of any other combination of air normals (unless you want to do j.D extender shenanigans) because of how it spaces you relative to your opponent in the air. It doesn't get the max j.214D hard knockdown time since that actually requires all those j.BBs, but it does get enough to allow 6B to link and it actually deals optimal damage (as in slightly more than just doing j.C > j.CC). If 6B can link then you have ~22 frames to work with which means 214B, 22B, and 3C along with the standard 2A/2B should work flawlessly. I make this recommendation not just for use with j.214D, but in every case you decide to do an air ender because it makes catching rolls and blue beating so much easier and consistent. Going to copypasta some of my notes in a bit since I have some free time.

Okay here you go. j.214D Vertical Spacing Long Startup Links and Setups It is pretty much sj.BB > dj.BB after 2CC in order to get things to work nicely. If you cancel 623C into j.236{A}(w) super early during a standard midscreen combo, the opponent will be juggled higher so you'll have to do sj.B > dj.BB instead in order to still connect j.214D.

Will make a short one soon, but I definitely want to go more in depth with full videos not just for this stuff but all the tech I haven't even reported on in any form just because of the sheer mass of things I have figured out. Oh wait here, let me post a couple short videos I made. I may start just infodumping my notes here when I get the chance since I have been keeping to myself for a while. 623C > j.236D Confirms and Gimmicks Various Charge Generating Combos I'll get to making a video to showcase the j.214D long startup link stuff soon. Hopefully I have enough time today, but I really could have been done by now if I had just hit the record button on my LGP while doing my 2am - 5am training room tech labbing for the past couple days.

I have A TON of tech that I have yet to post here because I have been busy. Here's just copypasta from my notes of something I have been working on for the past couple days: j.214D vertical spacing long startup normal links When doing any air combo starting with jump canceling 2CC you can adjust spacing in the air with sj.BB in order to allow a ridiculously large hard knockdown frame window so normals other than 2A and 2B can be used to continue the combo on the ground. This is because they very very top of j.214D's hitbox connects with the opponent while Tsubaki is under them so she hits the ground and recovers much earlier. This is pretty much taking the augmenting of knockdown frame advantage by positioning yourself below the opponent before j.214A/B a step further. Using sj.BB by itself gets you a bit more damage but is not that consistent and can be unstable because of the 623C > j.236{A}(w) route. Using sj.BB > dj.BB is a bit more consistent to at least allow j.214D to connect without fail, but there are subtleties here depending on when you cancel 623C into j.236{A} and how high you catch them with 5C since it affects their height when being juggled by 2CC before the jump cancel. Biggest things are what you can do when you touch the ground though. Conventional routes after j.214D:2A5C2C > X2A5B > X2B5C2C > X623C > j.236{A}(w) > 5C2C > X Possible links after j.214D with adjusted air spacing:22B236A3C214B6B6C6A5C**These are listed by difficulty and 5C is the absolute hardest to get to happen because it requires you to hit the opponent right as they touch the ground and bounce from j.214D's hard knockdown. This is immensely difficult. Just know that the max hard knockdown time you get off of this is ~26 frames or a bit more. So these links allow you to do a ton of end combo setups for charges or oki anywhere on the screen depending on starter and also get some decent combo extensions off of conventional midscreen combo routes. Oh yeah, even off of a 5A starter, you can still get j.214D > 6C to connect which is amazing. This means practical 1 charge midscreen ghetto 6C delay projectile oki is a thing again with this being a replacement for followup 22[D] no longer wallsplatting midscreen. Combo extension examples:214B > X6C > 214B > X6CC > j.X5C2C > X Combo ender examples:3CC214B6C jc Charge generation setups:22B > 5D6B(B) > 22B > 5D6C > 22|B| > 5D6A > 22|B| > 5D Oki setups:6C > 421{X}6A > 421D**This setup costs 1 charge on top of the one spent on j.214D but it is super legit midscreen since it will catch everything except no tech and backwards roll, but you will get guaranteed pressure off of backwards roll and no tech allows you to pick up into a combo with 2A/2B. Still in prototype stage.

So far there has been zero testing of Mugen. I guess nobody really likes it over there. I doubt that they changed it, but I hope they give it at least slightly more direct practical utility. If they don't I'm still content with using it for 50 meter standing resets into decent damage. I have a feeling that average damage has been lowered across the board though so Mugen might shine again if its output looks relatively strong.

Wait the new location tests are THIS weekend? Oooooohhh man. That being said this matchup doesn't look any less painful. Also I think they removed the ghosting from 22D. Okay nope nevermind this is apparently from the closed location test from some time ago. I wonder why there aren't any aftereffects if she does 6A > 22D then. Hmmmmm. Maybe it is only for specials and moves with followups? I don't know. Also if the standard followup to 22D is a dashing 5C, doesn't that mean 623C > j.236{A}(w) could become a standard filler there as well? Actually no it might be too slow if 5B can't be used either.

Oh yeah man j.214D got buffed to hell, and I already thought it was too good before I started getting all the tech (whack ass confirms and pressure resets) figured out with it. Like DAMN it is godly and I am actually starting to abuse it against barrier in pressure now too because it leaves you at perfect spacing instead of using other methods. When's Tsubaki 1 charge YRC for specials? That'd make the new 22X good and just everything good hahaha.

Yeah it definitely isn't 1000 base anymore or they may have removed the "ignore character combo rate" attribute as well. I'm pretty hype to explore the new routes whatever they may be. Also one giganto super important thing that the 5B > 6B comboing allows Tsubaki to do is FINALLY be able to get a combo off of an absolute max range "fast" poke on a standing opponent without spending anything. Never before (at least in my short experience with her) has she been able to do this so I think this is pretty huge. Like if you hit with sort of near the tip of 5B you could 236A, but not MAX range. Hell, even if she spent meter/charges she'd still get nothing unless she was close to the corner. Now other characters can't mock her as much anymore like Ragna and his max range jesus kick into 5C or Jin's hurtboxless 5C sword normal into 5D. Like damn have I been waiting for this to be a thing. Never again will I have to resort to attempting an IAD j.B crossup after confirming that 236A will 100% not connect from the distance I am at after getting a clean smack with the fingertips of Tsubaki's 5B. I can feel this getting removed in the next test or by the time the full game comes out though. Just like j.214D being an overhead, this is too damn good to be kept.

It also moves her a ridiculous distance forward. I doubt they increased 5B's attack level, so this means that 6B has 17f startup which is pretty good. Since I have been hearing that 6A5CC6B > 214B no longer works this probably means the 6B's (and possibly 6BB's) attack level got taken down to 3 from 4. I had also seen notes that 6B is no longer + on block and this is probably why. It is most likely -1 on block now. I don't mind this that much because of how far forward it moves her though. Small things I have been getting from asking Errol and looking at other Japanese twitter posts: 5A/2A > 2B now combos on standing so they most definitely made 2B faster. The thing is that because of 5A/2A's buffed attack level, they actually would have only needed to reduce startup by 1 frame in order for this to work. Attack level 1 hitstun on standing is 12, so I hope they go above and beyond and make it like 10 or lower instead of 12. Like man imagine if it was 8. Damn. 5CC > CT works on crouching, so 6A5CC > CT > 6CC > IAD etc. is possible for 25 meter which is neat. Also, holding down A+B for the CT augments the untech time on air hit, stagger time on ground hit, and guard break stun on guard break, so how long you hold it actually matters now. From this you can deduce that an uncharged CT has a maximum of 21f startup. It could possibly be 20f startup and still make 5CC > CT not connect so I am guessing it is 20. 20 frames is actually pretty fast and makes it so that you can't mash out of CTs cancelled out of normals with an attack level of 3 or higher without getting CH unless you IB. This also makes 6C > CT airtight on regular block since 6C is at attack level 5 with 20f of blockstun. It seems like her damage is slightly lower, but she has access to a lot of meter-to-damage conversion anywhere on the screen without needing charges because of the sped up Crush Trigger startup. Looking forward to doing random j.CC > j.214D > 2A5C2CC > CT and various other shenanigans. If you do 6CC > 22B you can combo afterward midscreen with I think 5C so combo theory revolving around the new 22B may involve a dependence on height. There will definitely be some room for mid-combo charging creativity here I am betting. From what I saw you cannot link 22D into 6C, but maybe if the height is right you can. Since normal moves in BBCF no longer have SMP, I am also betting that 6CC > 22D > 6C works.